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MjrMajorMajor
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30 Mar 2013, 3:08 am

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All the same I don't inviting the same experiences back in again. I am trying to live in the hear and now and work towards the future, not live in the past.[/quote]

:) Sounds like an awesome plan.



goldfish21
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30 Mar 2013, 4:25 am

bumble wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
I read your entire post & will address it bit by bit. I appreciate the same courtesy in return, thank you in advance, Bumble.

bumble wrote:
Actually goldfish your kind of approach just upsets me as I have been constantly accused of doing nothing when I have done everything there is to try. Those kinds of accusations on forum boards from posters like yourself because I did not feel I wanted to take certain peoples advice is what has lead to the internet being a nightmare for me. It has further isolated me as people have gone away with the impression that I do nothing and that I am just whining when in fact I am trying to explain my situation.


I never said you've done nothing, only that you don't seem willing to try anything new that you've yet to try before. Since you refuse to communicate with me, I can't possibly know whether you've tried what I would recommend or not. What I do know is that you have not possibly tried everything there is to try, because that would mean that you have exhausted all of the infinite possibilities in the universe and are truly hopeless - and no one has tried everything, nor is anyone truly completely hopeless. It comes across as persistent whining when you ignore peoples offers of help and advice & then make further complaints about how things are going. It's frustrating for people who are offering their help & insights who feel they may be able to help you and you dismiss their efforts or knowledge.



My diet is not the problem, please I do not wish to alter something that is already working so beautifully well and I cannot limit my food anymore....there will nothing left to eat if I take any more foods out.


How do you know that if you haven't tried every possible variation yet, starting with the ones that are most probable to affect those with AS & ADD/ADHD?

It's not working beautifully if this is the state you're in. Yes, actually, it's entirely possible to limit your food more & there's still plenty left to eat. I know because I've done it.

bumble wrote:
I don't caffeine.
I don't do drugs
I don't take medications
I don't drink alcohol
I do smoke cigarettes but am attempting to quit
I do not consume aspartame or any other sweetener
I do not consume food additives or any processed foods
I do not consume dairy other than some goats cheese now and then and a small portion of ice cream once a week.
I do not consume foods containing processed sugars (except as rare treats)
I rarely conusme chocolate (except as rare treats and only ever the dark chocolate with over 80% coacoa)


You've yet to exclude Gluten completely, have you? It takes 3-6 months to completely detox gluten and realize the full benefits of doing so. Go read the article in the thread I linked to learn about the detriments of not doing so.

bumble wrote:
I only drink mineral water, pure coconut water, a little honey and water now and then, peppermint or camomile infusions, and occasionally a cup of decaffeinated black coffee.

I only eat fresh meat (no processed meats), poultry, oily fish (sardines and salmon), fresh fruit, fresh vegetables, shelled nuts (not your roasted salted processed nuts) and eggs. And sometimes a little brown rice.

How much more do you want me to take out of my diet? It can't possibly be any cleaner.


As much as it takes, especially if once you do it you realize great benefits from it. Yes, it can. Just because these foods are healthy for many people doesn't mean they are for you.

bumble wrote:
I love my paleo diet and don't wish to change it. I am very into my paleo stuff right now and do not wish to veer away from it. In actual fact I started following it in the first place after someone gave me some advice to. So no, its not that I won't follow all advice I just do not wish to change a diet I am incredibly happy with and which has cleared up all of my digestive symptoms and most of my migraine headaches.


Sometimes we have to do things we don't want to do because they're good for us. Being stubborn won't make them any better for us if they're actually unhealthy or poisoning us. Your reluctance to being open to altering your diet may be what's keeping you in this state of anger & frustration and all of the less than desirable ways you're living, thinking, feeling, and behaving. Why wouldn't you want to find out for sure?

Just because the Paleo diet you're following now has improved things for you doesn't mean that there isn't a better diet to try. There's no such thing as perfection, only continuous improvement. Great, Paleo has helped you go from where you were to where you are now - but what if altering it further allows you to go from where you are now to where you want to be? Why wouldn't you want to find that out?

bumble wrote:
Nor do I need to read a self help book just to figure out CBT does not work for me. I already know that.


Don't you want to know why it doesn't work for you? What if the cause is, as it was for me, due to food chemical sensitivities and what you're eating is literally poisoning your thoughts? I'd sure as hell at least want to rule that out, if I were you. Hell, I was you. I ruled out CBT as being able to correct my thoughts by trying it, then figured out all of my food sensitivities (so far, there may be more.) & have made serious progress since. By making the changes I made I went from having the worst prolonged depression of my life that persisted for months and completely incapacitated me from participating in or enjoying life, to having that depression all but completely lift in about 5 days, and then it continued to improve along with many other symptoms over a handful of months. Being willing to try something (removing foods, adding supplements of sorts) worked dramatically within 5 days. That's all it took to change my life forever. I do not see the logic in you're refusal to try different things and see if they work for you, too.

bumble wrote:
I also do not wish to pursue a formal ASD diagnosis for various reasons.


OK, don't. I'm going to get my official stamp of AS approval eventually as I have reasons to want to do it, including monetary incentive via income tax deductions. To each their own on that one.

bumble wrote:
I did stipulate that I would be willing to consider other things though that do not mess with my lifestyle choices. I already know how to manage my depression. What I need to alleviate it is some company and fewer upsets and arguments like this one as that is what is getting me down.


If by lifestyle choice you mean your diet, then that's ridiculous. Your lifestyle choices may be exactly what are constraining you from achieving your social and other goals. How silly is it to not want to find out? Especially if you can follow the advice of a Canadian who doesn't know Jack s**t & figure it out in a matter of 5 whole days.

bumble wrote:
I keep telling people what I need and they keep advising me change areas I am very happy with and which are working well for me. Why am I going to change something that is working beautifully and obtaining all the results I wanted it to achieve? Especially when I know it is not the cause of my mildly low mood.


They're working better for you than what you were eating before, which is great, as you're moving in the right direction. But why stop at this point and refuse to make any attempts to improve yourself further by trying additional things? Purely illogical. If it were working beautifully you wouldn't be feeling the way you are nor getting frustrated with this conversation. You'd be content, possibly even happy, and not even on these forums as you'd be off enjoying a hobby of yours vs... this. You can't possibly be serious that you've obtained all of the results you want to achieve, because if you were you wouldn't be here pleading for help because things aren't quite going well for you just yet.

bumble wrote:
Isolation is. Isolation.

Quote:

As for my most recent approach in this thread, I changed it to get a response from you vs. no response - and it worked. Thank you. Now we're getting somewhere.



No we are not, I am stressed out from this ridiculous debate.


Point in case. You're getting stressed out instead of taking the opportunity to learn and grow and improve yourself.

bumble wrote:
Quote:


Fair enough, but you seem to be saying about the same thing over and over again in many many words. I'm not a very concise person all the time, either. Instead of looking at my TLDR comment as an attack, view it as an opportunity to learn that you're being too wordy. Especially if you've been told this by more than one person. We can learn from every interaction and experience we have, and getting TLDR feedback is in fact constructive criticism that you can use to improve your social skills.



I am not always wordy, but when discussing things like this it is important not to leave out important details. I won't take advice from people who do not have all the facts. You cannot give someone suitable advice if you do not know the exact situation you are dealing with.


OK, so be thorough. I've read what you've written.

bumble wrote:
Quote:

Like yourself, I'm intelligent, or as I prefer to say "smart as f**k," (Canada is a bilingual country, please pardon my French.) & have absolutely no problem with reading comprehension. I understand what you're saying, but you're not being very open minded or receptive to listening to anything I have to say about it in order to research it and decide for yourself. And the reason that I think you should give what I have in mind a try is because I was in a state of depression & AS/ADHD symptoms as bad or worse as what you're going through and have successfully changed the way that I am largely by altering my diet. This isn't magic. It's science. And it's highly probable among ASD brained people that we're intolerant & sensitive to the same types of foods, as can be read about and confirmed from multiple sources. Being so stubborn about discussing possible options is not helping you any. No one is going to force certain foods down your throat. I've told you before, PM me and I'd be more than happy to share my story & info with you, as well as various links where you can do your own reading and research before trying anything new. That offer still stands.



I like my paleo diet!


Great. I like thinking clearly & feeling happy more than any specific foods in the world. Why you wouldn't be open to the same is completely beyond me.

bumble wrote:
Quote:

In the meantime, click over to this thread & read the long article that whirlingmind quoted and posted as it has some very detailed information about some of this stuff. (But not all, I have further info.)

You are what you eat, and what you're eating may just be making you the way that you are. Unless you're willing to find out, you'll never know. Continue to do as you've always done and you'll get as you've always got.



I like my paleo diet. I only just changed to it in the last year from the western diet after someone gave me information and suggested it. They provided reliable science. I liked the way they argued their point, they were strong at debate without becoming personally insulting or offensive. They kept to the science. We had an entire debate about diets without one insult exchanged between us. She out debated me,.....with the science! She got my respect, I checked it out further and decided to try it.


This is good. Switching from current to different that benefits you is an improvement. Now you're at current again, why not be open to changes that yield further improvements beyond these initial changes? I've already stated more than once that my advice is not magic, it's science, and that I have the facts available for you to read up on. I've invited you to PM me and discuss it multiple times. My offer remains open.

Re: personally insulting or offensive, trust me.. if I was trying to be either it would be very, very, obvious. I'm being short with you because you're extremely stubborn. If I wanted to be an as*hole instead of offering help, then I'd have been such a grade A as*hole you'd be in a fit of rage right now. But I'm not like that and refuse to stoop to those levels no matter how silly your resistance to change and trying things is to me.

bumble wrote:
Quote:

bumble wrote:
Control freak much?


Nope, not really. It doesn't affect my life any if you stay clinically depressed & functioning like sh**, to be perfectly honest. I'm only continuing to reply because I do care about others going through the exact same things I've gone through and I believe I'm able to help. If I didn't care, I wouldn't bother reading anything you write nor spending my time to reply. Think about that.



The depression is not affecting my ability to function....my mood is not that low. I am actually functioning better since I went paleo and came off the meds, my mood has actually improved from where it was back then as has my physical health.

I stipulate again, my mood is not what is stopping me from functioning but a migraine from all this arguing will.

I have not lost interest in my hobbies
I am not hopeless about all areas of my life
I do not hate myself
My mood is not constantly down every day (it depends what is going on in my day)
I do not feel worthless
I am not suicidal
I don't self harm


Just because you're better than you were & not feeling suicidal doesn't mean you're in a good place yet or in a place you want to be or ought to be. There's quite obviously plenty of room for improvement if you're not in a pretty darned good mood nearly all the time. It's probably been so long since you've experienced that, if ever, that you've forgotten what it's like so you're relatively better mood now feels pretty good compared to the lows of your past. That doesn't mean you're actually feeling pretty good, though.



bumble wrote:
I sometimes feel a bit sad...this is not clinical depression. Please look up the diagnostic criteria for it.


I'm aware. I've also read it before.

bumble wrote:
Quote:
bumble wrote:
To the person above...you see how goldfish is posting? This is what happens when I try to speak up for myself. I then end up being unfairly rejected by people when I have done nothing wrong.


To bumble, I haven't rejected you. I continue to offer you what help I can. Whenever you're ready to accept it, get in touch.


You are pushing advice on me that I do not wish to take as I am already happy with my paleo diet.


You're refusing to even find out what my advice is, so how can you possibly know whether you wish to take it or not? Or whether it's any good or not? Or whether it's based on science or superstition & magic or not? You're happier with your Paleo diet, but I would not use "happy," as an adjective to accurately describe you at the present time.

bumble wrote:
Quote:

bumble wrote:
I have tried many things: medications (that made me sick and kept my housebound for years), therapy, asking the drs for referrals, lifestyle changes, alternative therapies, self help books, researching more scientifically based methods, exercise, meditation, yoga, Buddhism....you name it it is on the list.


Excellent. So far you've found many things that haven't worked for you, just as I did. So try another one, then another, and another - until you get it right and something works for you. Kinda like the Benjamin Franklin quote about inventing the light bulb: "If I find 10,000 ways something won't work, I haven't failed. I am not discouraged, because every wrong attempt discarded is another step forward."


I am happy with my paleo diet.


Would you still be completely happy with it if you discovered that portions of it are detrimental to your health and well being? I was quite content with my diet before I changed mine again, too. Now instead of being happy with my diet & miserable in my life, I tolerate my diet and am happy in my life. Much better way to live & be, in my experience.

bumble wrote:
Quote:

bumble wrote:
Goldfish, like many others, is fixating on my slightly low mood at the moment (partly because I am due my period and it's not unusual for me to be a bit ratty at this time of the month and partly because I am socially isolated).


You're more than slightly low, you're just not in the frame of mind to be able to even acknowledge it. I bet if you were to take the Burns Depression Checklist test as it's published in the CBT book "Feeling Good," by Dr. David Burns (an outside expert on the matter, not me.) you'd fall into the category of severely depressed. I don't know this, but as little as I gamble I would bet money on it - and gladly lose it if you were in fact feeling better than you come across on these forums, as feeling good is the whole entire point.



NO I am pissed off with this debate. Do not tell me how I am feeling and do not pull the I must be in denial line on me.


If there's absolutely nothing wrong with your thinking, perceptions, feelings, and various aspects of mental health and/or diagnoses' traits & symptoms, then riddle me this: Why are you so irritable and so easily pissed off by someone persistently offering you help despite your outright refusal to accept help or try anything different to help yourself?

bumble wrote:
Quote:

bumble wrote:
What no one will do is help me with the social stuff.


Because you're impossible to teach anything to while you're this depressed. You need to deal with the depression first and foremost in order to have a better mental foundation from which to begin building social skills upon. You can't force the ability to skip the basics and move onto more advanced material in this case. Deal with the basics first, then when you're in a better mood people will be more willing to offer you help with social skills because you'll have the capacity to be receptive to what they're trying to teach you.



I am not that depressed. FFS. Excuse my not so canadian french.

Please look up the diagnostic criteria for depression. Feeling a bit sad and lonely is not it. Oddly I managed to learn about the paleo diet just fine !


:lol: Ta Français est excusé.


bumble wrote:
Quote:

bumble wrote:
I need help and advice on socialising so I can meet people with interests similar to myself.

Yes, sure, but it'll only do any good if you've dealt with the basics first.

bumble wrote:
I don't need further advice on my depression......


Yes, you do. Because you're depressed & have yet to be able to get out of your funk with any of the methods or knowledge you have already learned or tried.



ARgh argh argh argh argh

I give up. Think what you want to.

Quote:

bumble wrote:
But no one will listen.


How ironic.



I just don't want to listen to you...did you ever think that was it?


No, not really. I still don't. Because you're very consistent in not wanting to listen to anyone even though you keep openly requesting advice. So, since I realize full well that it's simply a result of the frame of mind you're in and nothing personal against me, I'm not taking it personally & thus experiencing zero stress from it and am still willing to offer you what help I can. 8)

bumble wrote:
Quote:

bumble wrote:
They keep giving me loads of advice about stuff I am already knowledgeable about and have been researching for years!! !! !! !! !! !


How do you know what advice I have to offer? So far you've refused to take me up on my offer of it. You can't possibly know that what I have to tell you is something you're already knowledgeable about and have been researching for years. If you were open to a PM conversation with me, then you could find out.



You are obsessed with depression I am not experiencing to the degree you think I am and you want me to change a diet I am happy with to correct a problem I don't have but which you wont accept.


[sarcasm]Oh yes, I can see clearly that you do not have any problems which you wish to correct.. why couldn't I just accept that? It should have been so obvious to me that you're the happiest girl in the whole wide world![/sarcasm]

bumble wrote:
Quote:

bumble wrote:
They are telling what I already know and am capable of working out or understanding. As an A grade student who used to study psychology etc I am perfectly capable of understanding things in that area without having people explain it to me in the form of some over simplified CBT self help book recommendation. On an academic level I did begin school early because I was considered to be exceptionally bright or extremely intelligent. I don't need dumbed down psych self help books which I have already read anyway.


How do you know you already know what someone might tell you? You can't possibly know. And obviously you haven't been capable of working out how to resolve your depression issues, or you'd be as happy as I am right now vs. asking rhetorical questions on the internet about whether or not you're allowed to be happy.

If you've read my responses in your threads before, you'll have read that I tried CBT & learned a lot from it - including that it wasn't working and that I needed to do something different, and that my recommendations aren't just to go redo what you've already done.



My diet is working just fine. My social life is what is shite.

I feel like smacking my head on the desk except I don't have one. Which is a good thing cause hitting my head would hurt.


How do you know your diet couldn't be working better if you're unwilling to try and find out? My point: You can't possibly.

bumble wrote:
Quote:

bumble wrote:
Nor do I need gimmicks which rule out foods unnecessarily. I chose my version of the paleo diet because it removed my main problem foods but allowed me to eat a varied diet which will meet my nutritional requirements without the need for supplements to pad it out.


No gimmicks. Like I said, this isn't magic, it's science. If any foods are ruled out, it's with logic & reasoning and because it's necessary. That's great that you chose a diet that works for whatever issues it's resolved for you, but if it happens to contain things that are literally poisoning you and causing your depression and AS symptoms then you're not doing yourself any favours by continuing to consume them and (possibly) making yourself worse. Again, I'm speaking from personal experience, as well as having read and researched quite a bit online - but mostly from personal experience. Take a chance and discuss this with me via and I'll tell you what I've learned and how. You're free to do all the research you want on it before deciding to try it, but refusing to try something new & discounting the possibility that it might help you is simply asking to remain in the exact same state that you're in.



There is nothing in my diet that would be poisoning me. Unless I have a salicylate sensitivity which I don't think I do.


Oh the irony of that opening line! Followed up by.. Ding ding ding! We have a winner here, folks! Now go back up and see all the foods that I bolded. Each of these, and likely many more, that you consume, contain salicylate acids. T H I S was the primary cause of my own depression & amplified ADHD & AS symptoms to the nth degree. If you'd like to hear the whole story, I'll share it with you in private, as well as the supplement of sorts I concocted to rapidly detox the acids I was overdosing on in mass quantities in order to achieve dramatic improvements in 5 days.

You don't know that you don't have salicylate sensitivity, but based on the scientific fact that 75% of those with AS or ADHD are salicylate sensitive (according to a site I read in my research, not a wild guess.) and 60% of us are gluten (wheat/many grains) & casein (from dairy) intolerant + the fact that you (and I) believe you're likely AS + the list of high salicylate acid containing foods that your diet is comprised of + several symptoms of salicylate sensitivity that you've stated that you have (granted, the list of ss symptoms is extremely long and covers many different things. PM me, I have reference sites bookmarked.) = very high probability that you are also salicylate sensitive. I have a rather extreme story about my own experience, and as I've offered several times, I'll share it with you along with the facts and the reference sites for your own research. Then if you're ready to give it an honest test to see if you are & if my methods work for you, I'll wrap up a parcel and ship you a gift from my corner of the world near Vancouver, BC, Canada to wherever you are to see if trying what I've already achieved for myself works for you, too. Again, this is not about me being right and you being wrong. This is about me having been in your shoes & wanting to help you if you'll let me.

bumble wrote:
I am already aware of factors like chemical fertilizers, chemicals added to food (including meat and poultry) and tap water supplies, issues with plastic bottles if you drink mineral water, mercury content of certain types of fish and so on and so forth. I am aware to check my supplier about such issues.


Excellent. Most of this s**t is poison & the vast majority of people are clueless to it and don't bother to look into researching anything, they just gobble it up and make themselves sick, or obese, or otherwise unhealthy.

bumble wrote:
Quote:

bumble wrote:
It is socialising I have trouble understanding...not other things. I was always very capable when it comes to other things.


Except not being clinically depressed, or being happy, for instance. Blunt, I know, but it's the brutal truth of the matter. You need to resolve these things before you'll have any social success. There's no way you'll be open to learning new social skills in your current state, and quite frankly, most people won't want to be around you to give you any sort of opportunity to practice social skills when you're in such a state. I know this to be fact because I've been there myself. I was so depressed that I told my closest friend in the world that I couldn't subject him to myself and had to avoid him, and everyone, for a few months while I figured out wtf was going on with my brain and why I was so severely depressed and getting worse despite doing CBT, exercising a lot, and eating what I thought at the time was a very healthy diet.



I am not clinically depressed. I was having a sh***y day and made a post, get over it.

Quote:

bumble wrote:
But hardly anyone will help with that, and if they do they give me advice that is more suited to someone who already has social skills but is just too shy to use them.


They won't help with that because they recognize that trying to talk to you falls on deaf ears, and when you do listen to something you respond with all the depressive thinking reasons why it won't help you any without even trying it. Resolve the depression issues and you'll improve your capacity to learn and grow and be happy, and then others will practically jump at the chance to help you learn new things when you're actually in a frame of mind that allows you to be receptive to learning new things.



You are obsessed with depression.

Any sadness or loneliness i feel is situational....it has a different cause and the only way you can change it is by changing the situation.

Please do some research on what depression is and isn't and its various causes before commenting further.

My complaints about my social life are based in actual experiences, not some delusion I created.
In other areas my life is fine and I am happy about those areas.

Your reply is a prime example of why I will not see a dr anymore...they are as bad as you are which means I cannot get the support I need from them either.

Look tell you what forget my posts on the subject yeah...I will go look on amazon for some books on how to socialise and make friends.

Maybe they have a self help book about that.

All I wanted was an interesting conversation about a subject of interest or a day out at a museum with some congenial company and my mood would cheer right up.

MY mood is affected by what is going on around me see....this is how I know change the circumstances, change the mood...BINGO.

People who are clinically depressed do not respond to a change in situation just like that. If the cause were dietary it would not change after finding what I feel I am missing in my life. You might be happy living in complete isolation, but I am not.

And yes a person can be unhappy without being depressed and if I do have any mild depression it is situational or reactive not clinical:

"Generally we will consider the severity and number of symptoms of depressive episode in determining the cause. This can be a bit tricky because both disorders can entail a bundle of severe symptoms which will vary from person to person depending on the trauma or stress in their lives. As a general rule clinical depression is much more severe and prolonged, clinical depression causes more impairment in functioning and doesn’t tend to go away once the stressor is removed."

Situational depression will alleviate itself once the situation has changed.

For crying out loud.

I just need a friend, a good conversation about something fascinating, a little love and romance, some sex and my mood will pick right up.





------------------------------------------
[/quote]

annnnnd if this works for you as well, socializing will come much much easier than it has been for you. Again, I know it because Ive already lived through this in a rather extreme way, then figured it out and made the necessary changes to better my mind - and changing your mind is the single most valuable thing you could ever manage to change - and now, now life is much MUCH better than it was just 6 short months ago before I figured out I had AS & ss in addition to ADHD and several other things I was already aware of, and that the ss (+ gluten & casein intolerances, triple whammy, all three of the most common ASD food chem sensitivities/intolerances) was making the symptoms of everything amplified to the nth degree. NTH degree! My short term memory & focus were nill. I had the worst prolonged depression of my life. My executive brain functions were completely shot. My balance and coordination were so poor you'd swear I was drunk - yet I hadn't drank a drop. My fine motor skills were so far gone that I had difficulty tying my shoes because I could not use my fingers. I was avoiding eye contact with people like crazy. Anxiety levels were through the roof. Meanwhile, I was doing TONS of exercise & eating very healthy foods + using natural treatments for various ailments. I had no idea what was going on & was absolutely terrified that I'd just keep regressing to lower and lower functioning and not be able to live. What a massive relief it was to figure out it was AS & ss and that virtually everything I was eating, using as a remedy for something, or putting on my skin was poisoning my brain. I instantly stopped consuming all of these things - as well as added something else of my own creation (based on science, not magic) & made significant mental improvements within 5 days w/ the horrendously bad depression being the first to go. Then over the next few months or so, day by day, week by week, brain functions have improved dramatically. I'm higher functioning than I've ever been in my life & w/ all the things I continue to learn and practice I blend into the NT world better than ever, and still getting better via my continued mix of treatments between diet, exercise, supplements, vitamins/minerals, meditation etc - but diet has been absolutely key to my success. The devil's in the details & the numbers never lie.. the vast majority of us can benefit from doing what I've already done. 60% are gluten & casein intolerant, 75% are salicylate sensitive, and very VERY few people have lived through the autistic hell I lived last Summer, figured this s**t out, learned what to do about it - and then have done it. I have, and while very very simple, what else I've learned to do about it an even smaller number of people have figured out. Allllmost none of us - but I'm among that number, and I'm willing to share. I've left several details out of my story here for a bit of brevity as well as not wanting to lay all my cards on the table at this point in time for a few reasons which I'd gladly discuss via PM, ie what exactly I was poisoning myself with that contained sky high sals, and what I've done besides not eating them. All in due time, I'll eventually share my entire story publicly.


_________________
No :heart: for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.


bumble
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30 Mar 2013, 4:43 am

Am I reading your last post correctly? You are not seriously suggesting removing fruits and vegetables from my diet to eat a predominantly meat/protein based only diet?

Are you trying to give me nutritional deficiencies?

I know you believe that you diet will work for others (and maybe for some it will) but there is more to how a diet affects a person than whether or not they have an ASD or ADHD.

And Yes I am aware of gluten...I had a brother with celiac disease.

It also looks like you are suggesting a diet low in carbs. I did a low carb version of the paleo and it did not work well for me. Unless you expect me to consume grains which I don't except rice. Most grains are cross contaminated with gluten and no grains are consumed on the paleo diet.

If I take out vegetables I lose my starchy veg carb source.

And yes I am aware of things in regards to sugar or carb consumption as I also have diabetes type 2 in my family. If I wanted to do a ketogenic diet I would do the paleo version and whilst I am aware that a ketogenic diet can help with diabetes type 2 I am not diabetic.



goldfish21
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30 Mar 2013, 5:19 am

bumble wrote:
Am I reading your last post correctly? You are not seriously suggesting removing fruits and vegetables from my diet to eat a predominantly meat/protein based only diet?


Not sure.. still reading in English from left to right? Pretty sure you've got it nailed down. :P

Not all fruits/veggies, but most of them. I've eaten tons of fruits/veggies all my life, a huge variety. Now I only eat the ones that are very low sal, so a limited selection. I eat meat/fish/eggs as well as plant proteins - just from no/low sal sources. My main source of plant protein is hemp shakes & hemp seeds. Chickpeas, peas, beans, lentils are also fine. I still eat brown rice. There are only a handful of different veggies and a few different fruits that I eat now, and for very sound logical scientific reason. I make sure to get the rest of any vitamins and things I need in a multivitamin. I've also cut out virtually every spice/herb/tea & regular coffee, too. I only eat cashews for nuts. etc. Eating high sal foods affects me within 20 minutes.

bumble wrote:
Are you trying to give me nutritional deficiencies?


:lol: No. I'm trying to change your life for the better if it works for you. You can make up required nutrients in refined sources, ie multivitamins.

bumble wrote:
I know you believe that you diet will work for others (and maybe for some it will) but there is more to how a diet affects a person than whether or not they have an ASD or ADHD.


Obviously. It depends on a number of other factors, including allergies, other medical concerns, etc etc. Avoiding sals will benefit 75% of AS/ADHD neuro-type people. I didn't make this up, I'm just reiterating it. 3 in 4 chance are pretty good odds - better than any casino would ever give you. 60% are said to be gluten & casein intolerant, also decent odds avoiding these helps others, too, but straight up by the numbers it's only 80% the odds of the ss.

bumble wrote:
And Yes I am aware of gluten...I had a brother with celiac disease.


Yep, causes a lot of problems for a lot of people besides celiacs, too. Apparently schizophrenics are very highly likely to be gluten intolerant & eliminating gluten can greatly reduce their symptoms.

bumble wrote:
It also looks like you are suggesting a diet low in carbs. I did a low carb version of the paleo and it did not work well for me. Unless you expect me to consume grains which I don't except rice. Most grains are cross contaminated with gluten and no grains are consumed on the paleo diet.


I eat carbs. I make pancakes almost every day (buckwheat flour) & put real maple syrup on them. Low carbs are good for ADHD (and possibly AS??) but minimizing carbs hasn't been quite as important as eliminating sals as much as possible. Low carb diets are recommended for ADD/ADHD as it keeps glucose levels in brain fluid lower, making brain fluid more conductive & allowing electrical impulses to cross synapses easier. Higher carbs increase brain glucose levels and make the fluid less conductive to electricity, so with fewer connections made, ADHD symptoms increase as the cause of them is essentially rolling electrical blackouts around the outside of the brain. Increasing dopamine via pharmaceuticals helps, but high sugar levels hinder the help that provides. But still, by all means eat some damn carbs, I eat them w/ almost every meal - I just don't do the massive plate of pasta or 1/2 a loaf of bread thing.

bumble wrote:
If I take out vegetables I lose my starchy veg carb source.


So select your veggies from the lowest possible sal containing ones & still eat some. If you do incorporate some that are a little higher, re-introduce them later and see how they affect you. By doing what else I've done I've increased my tolerance to sals, sort of, and can consume some amounts of them with negligible effects as well as know that I can counter the effects virtually overnight if & when I consume a bit more than I ought to have. I still make the occasional mistake - I am human, after all. But instead of the sals building up and building up and wreaking absolute havoc on my CNS like they did, I've figured out how to tell them to f**k right off & gtfo of my body asap. :)

bumble wrote:
And yes I am aware of things in regards to sugar or carb consumption as I also have diabetes type 2 in my family. If I wanted to do a ketogenic diet I would do the paleo version and whilst I am aware that a ketogenic diet can help with diabetes type 2 I am not diabetic.


An AS friend of mine follows some sort of ketogenic diet to keep ketones in check. I haven't really looked into it in depth, but I'm open to learning more about it from him. I think I'm not too far off on the carb content of my diet when I'm being nice and strict with what I eat, and that once I read up on it I'll likely find that what I do is pretty similar in terms of carbs to what he does w/ regards to ketones.


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nessa238
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30 Mar 2013, 5:46 am

If you feel isolated I suggested taking a college course in a subject you are interested in or doing some voluntary work
- this advice has received no response either on the board or via a pm

So it seems that you aren't even prepared to consider a lot of advice

I don't think your 'wonderful' diet is helping your mood at all as you seem very irritable and not willing to listen calmly to peoples' advice

Sometimes anti-depressants can be the answer

'Big Pharma' isn't always the enemy

You talk about the people you mix with not talking about subjects you are interested in. This is what happens with a lot of social interaction. It's up to you to start taking an interest in what other people talk about - that's how socialising works. No one I know talks about subjects I'm interested in all the time if at all but I'm still interested in them as people and enjoy talking about day to day subjects with them.

Most people do not want to talk about intellectual topics - that's a fact. You need to lower your expectations of people as you'll have a very long search for the person who always wants to talk about what you want to discuss all the time.

As a point of interest though, are you on any discussion forums for your special interests?



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30 Mar 2013, 7:28 am

Its hard to give advice to someone you know only by what is writen by them on the internet, perhaps your very lost in the fine details and missing the plain obvious? I think its very hard for anyone to tell without knowing you personally. Just my opinion.



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30 Mar 2013, 9:53 am

Other human beings!


You cant live with 'em.


And you can't live without 'em.


Thats the ghist of all this.


She cant stand being around other people, and she cant stand being alone.

Then the forum got sidetracked on the subject of diet.


I have a lady friend who has zillions of food allergies and it doesnt stop her from having a social life.


Just tell folks that you have food allergies, and they will not force feed you.
So enough yakking about diet.


The subject is her social life, or lack thereof.

Life is not about solving problems. Life is about deciding which problems you want to have.

I suggest that the OP just make up her mind- do you want to be a hermit, or not?

If not than just accept migraines and having to make chit chat, and stop complaining.

If you cant hack it then then just be a hermit and stop whining about being lonely.

I learned to make chit-chat. It didnt kill me.



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30 Mar 2013, 10:05 am

Nessa

I said previously in one post that I am considering taking an art class of some kind (ie pottery or painting).

I am looking for some forums in relation to some of my interests. I am on some paleo related forms/groups but they are not very busy (not the ones I use, I need to find more).

I was a member of some cross stitching/needlecraft groups and run my own group on one site, unfortunately the same kind of thing happened on that site in other groups I was a member of (people obsessing about my depression and trying to push me to do things I did not want to do such as take medication long after I had stipulated multiple times that I did not want to because they make me physically sick and made my moods swing about uncontrollably) so my group isn't frequented there. I also did stop doing cross stitching for a while because I was too ill to sit up and do it (due to antidepressants) so didn't frequent many needlecraft groups during that time. I will probably find all my old links again at some point.

I also run a number of blogs about various interests I have had over the years. Some of which need updating as they have not been posted to in ages. I shall do that later today I think. My blogs have been neglected tut tut. Very few people read them though, especially as this kind of thing happens everywhere I go if I happen to mention any of my social issues etc and I get sick of people insisting I take medications when they made me so horribly sick for years and lost me years of my life. Going back on medications is just not going to happen as it would literally have to be over my dead body before I would consider making myself that ill again just because people cannot understand that it is a form of reactive depression caused by my isolation and social problems. Many of which are not my doing. I cannot help it if people do the same thing they have done here and then avoid me by avoiding my groups etc or attempts to socialise. I am not responsible for their reactions, they are.

They are the ones who are causing trouble and misinterpreting me. I have done nothing wrong. All i have done is tried to assert myself which is what a therapist would tell me to do if I saw one.

I have even used the recommended broken record technique (repeating the same thing!) but it does not work either. I am considering printing some of the stuff out and taking it to a therapist so they can over veiw my self assertion technique though. Maybe they can tell me what is going wrong with it and why people are doing this to me because I don't want to take pills or change a diet I am happy with.

Yes I can misinterpret them but I am usually reasonable about that whereas they seem to hold some grudge and avoid me if it is the other way around.

I am not going back on medications though and I am beginning to feel bullied by people in regards to that. It is as if they are using peer pressure to try and force me to do something that was making me horribly ill. If I don't do it, they label me as stubborn, seriously mentally ill and so on...pretty much the same that has happened here.

So I don't have much choice but to keep failing socially as they will reject me and cause trouble because I wont take pills, and I won't take pills because they took years of my life away from me because they made me horribly sick. They don't solve the problem anyway and I am even worse at socialising on them as they put me in a state of permanent brain fog and increase my levels of anxiety. They also make me suicidal and I start posting suicidal thoughts when I am on them. I rarely, if ever, feel suicidal when I am not on medication and/or I avoid alcohol (that is another thing that will cause me to suffer from temporary suicidal ideation). I don't appreciate feeling like I want to kill myself when I don't really want to die just because people insist I should take tablets. Jesus.

I also need to set up a new blog as I just bought some books on species of shark. I want to chart their evolution but shall begin with learning about all the modern day species and work my way backwards. I think shark fossils are hard to come by for various reasons so I am not sure how much is known about prehistoric breeds. I will do some research.

I have also just taken up calligraphy, partly because I want to branch out to doing my own cross stitching designs which will include doing some greetings cards for which I shall write my own greetings (I used to write poetry when I was young and was published but stopped writing such things years ago after I got writers block on the antidepressants), probably by hand, and partly because I just felt I wanted to.
I may just add that to my hobby home blog though rather than having a separate blog for it (it being the calligraphy)

I do have a blog for my own cross stitching designs etc but there is nothing in it yet as I have not gotten around to taking my ideas out of my head and putting them down on paper etc. I am getting around to it slowly.

I also want to get some cards or other things stitched (my own designs or otherwise) and take them down to a local charity shop. I miss having people to stitch things for. I usually give most of my stitching away or I used to stitch things people requested me to. I also frame my own work for them if need be.

And yes not many people want to discuss sharks and the palaeolithic.

Cross stitch addicts are easier to find though as are forum boards on Parapsychology (although that interest is completely dormant right now or has been reduced to being a minor interest in the background that never gets my attention). Unfortunately a lot of forum boards on the latter are full of people who believe they have a demon in the attic because they heard scratching last night (when it is probably a wild animal or bird) and people who want them to walk around their house with sage chanting stuff as a result. There doesn't seem to be much discussion about parapsychological theory such as sleep paralysis being responsible for many alien abductions and old hag experiences. There is an interesting book about that though called 'sex and the paranormal'. Very good book and one of my old favourites.

I am also considering finding a local tai chi class but the last time I looked they were expensive. I don't presently work and am on disability as I don't cope with social interaction and change much of the time (which is why I was awarded it, not for my physical health issues although they contributed). Although I get the severe disablement add on it is still not an awful lot of money to live on, especially as I live out in the middle of nowhere in a small village (there is nothing here only a local pub that is full of old people and a community center that never seems to be open) and the bus service is rubbish (no buses in the evening at all and very few during the day) so travel costs me a fortune. I have to travel by taxi and the last time I needed to go to the city for an emergency drs appointment it cost me 40 quid to do so. Damned expensive.



Last edited by bumble on 30 Mar 2013, 10:32 am, edited 3 times in total.

nessa238
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30 Mar 2013, 10:18 am

bumble wrote:
Nessa

I said previously in one post that I am considering taking an art class of some kind (ie pottery or painting).

I am looking for some forums in relation to some of my interests. I am on some paleo related forms/groups but they are not very busy (not the ones I use, I need to find more).

I was a member of some cross stitching/needlecraft groups and run my own group on one site, unfortunately the same kind of thing happened on that site in other groups I was a member of (people obsessing about my depression and trying to push me to do things I did not want to do such as take medication long after I had stipulated multiple times that I did not want to because they make me physically sick and made my moods swing about uncontrollably) so my group isn't frequented there. I also did stop doing cross stitching for a while because I was too ill to sit up and do it (due to antidepressants) so didn't frequent many needlecraft groups during that time. I will probably find all my old links again at some point.

I also run a number of blogs about various interests I have had over the years. Some of which need updating as they have not been posted to in ages. I shall do that later today I think. My blogs have been neglected tut tut.

I also need to set up a new blog as I just bought some books on species of shark. I want to chart their evolution but shall begin with learning about all the modern day species and work my way backwards. I think shark fossils are hard to come by for various reasons so I am not sure how much is known about prehistoric breeds. I will do some research.

I have also just taken up calligraphy, partly because I want to branch out to doing my own cross stitching designs which will include doing some greetings cards for which I shall write my own greetings (I used to write poetry when I was young and was published but stopped writing such things years ago after I got writers block on the antidepressants), probably by hand, and partly because I just felt I wanted to.
I may just add that to my hobby home blog though rather than having a separate blog for it (it being the calligraphy)

I do have a blog for my own cross stitching designs etc but there is nothing in it yet as I have not gotten around to taking my ideas out of my head and putting them down on paper etc. I am getting around to it slowly.

I also want to get some cards or other things stitched (my own designs or otherwise) and take them down to a local charity shop. I miss having people to stitch things for. I usually give most of my stitching away or I used to stitch things people requested me to. I also frame my own work for them if need be.

And yes not many people want to discuss sharks and the palaeolithic.

Cross stitch addicts are easier to find though as are forum boards on Parapsychology (although that interest is completely dormant right now or has been reduced to being a minor interest in the background that never gets my attention). Unfortunately a lot of forum boards on the latter are full of people who believe they have a demon in the attic because they heard scratching last night (when it is probably a wild animal or bird) and people who want them to walk around their house with sage chanting stuff as a result. There doesn't seem to be much discussion about parapsychological theory such as sleep paralysis being responsible for many alien abductions and old hag experiences. There is an interesting book about that though called 'sex and the paranormal'. Very good book and one of my old favourites.


That's good that you are focusing on your interests and trying to make connections through them - that is a good way to meet like-minded people

Having looked at some of the videos on your Blog links I think you are going about making contact with people in the wrong way and putting yourself at risk

I'm wondering what type of person you expect to attract with them?



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30 Mar 2013, 10:53 am

It depends on which blog you are referring to.

My hobby blogs are the ones directly linked to bumbles hobby home (which is my portal blog) but I do have other blogs that I use to post pictures and videos in.

The video blogs are from when I was messing around with video making for a while (was bored) but I have gone quiet on that front for the moment as before I can commence I need better filming equipment and to draw up some story boards for some mini films I had an idea for. They will be quite different to what I have already posted as I was just messing around on those and being silly for practice lol. I also want to make some outfits if I ever learn to use my sewing machine as I would like to do some silent movie or black and white movie themed videos as well as some paleo ones and need some 20's/30's style clothing and a cavegirl outfit before I can film them. I want to design and make these outfits myself by hand.

Also video making has temporarily dropped down the list in terms of interests that presently get my attention.

I don't know what kinds of people I attract with them. I have been trying to work out how to attract friends for many years and have tried many different styles and approaches but have failed each time. Unfortunately no matter what I do I am misinterpreted by people and often accused of things I did not do. This tends to cause arguments when I try to defend myself and everything goes to hell as a result.

People also just assume that my personality is something it is not...so if I post a lively profile with a bit of in your face silly humour they think I am running around out of control in the real world when actually I am very reserved and much quieter. I don't do any drugs or anything or commit crime etc either. I am just a bit quirky.

I also talk about my past life experiences in a matter of fact informational way but people will misinterpret this as my being upset. I stopped being upset over said events long ago as they are ancient and can no longer hurt me (other than leaving me with an awareness of my vulnerability and a minor struggle with trust sometimes) but they seem to think I am in a state of distress over them. Usually any distress I am exhibiting is from feeling like I am under attack, especially in group situations and people seem to be ganging up on me. But I am not upset over the old life experience now. I was at the time, but not now. That event is long gone and cannot harm me. Only present events can upset me or potentially cause harm, not something that has long gone and is not happening in the hear and now.

My writing style is very different to my speaking style. It is much stronger, much more outgoing than I am in person. I am very meek and mild usually except when I am messing about on video being silly. I used to want to be an actress when i was young and did drama at A level equivalent study when I was younger, but it is not really my niche as such, even if it is just fun.

It is another way of expressing oneself and exploring ones imagination.

At uni did Archaeology and Geography/geology though (although I left the course for family reasons at the time) and over the years I have also done subjects like psychology, biology, media studies. literature etc. I jump around when my interests do as there are always one or two that become my main focus whilst the others drop into the background for a while or I develop a new one for some reason (ie I now collect cuddly toy penguins because I liked the criminal penguin clip on youtube from the David Attenborough Documentary (something else I collect...isn't David's stuff wonderful?) 'The Frozen Planet'. A few online contacts who do speak to me (although I have never met them as they live a long way away) sent me bobble and George because I mentioned I wanted to collect cuddly penguin toys. Hence my bobble meets George video.

So I've no idea what types of people they attract, I do know they get confused between my online communication style and my real life personality though and I have had a few people take my videos too seriously when I was just being silly on them.

I never really get peoples reactions to things I do, they confuse the hell out of me.



Last edited by bumble on 30 Mar 2013, 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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30 Mar 2013, 11:01 am

bumble wrote:
It depends on which blog you are referring to.

My hobby blogs are the ones directly linked to bumbles hobby home (which is my portal blog) but I do have other blogs that I use to post pictures and videos in.

The video blogs are from when I was messing around with video making for a while (was bored) but I have gone quiet on that front for the moment as before I can commence I need better filming equipment and to draw up some story boards for some mini films I had an idea for. They will be quite different to what I have already posted as I was just messing around on those and being silly for practice lol. I also want to make some outfits if I ever learn to use my sewing machine as I would like to do some silent movie or black and white movie themed videos as well as some paleo ones and need some 20's/30's style clothing and a cavegirl outfit before I can film them. I want to design and make these outfits myself by hand.

Also video making has temporarily dropped down the list in terms of interests that presently get my attention.

I don't know what kinds of people I attract with them. I have been trying to work out how to attract friends for many years and have tried many different styles and approaches but have failed each time. Unfortunately no matter what I do I am misinterpreted by people and often accused of things I did not do. This tends to cause arguments when I try to defend myself and everything goes to hell as a result.

People also just assume that my personality is something it is not...so if I post a lively profile with a bit of in your face silly humour they think I am running around out of control in the real world when actually I am very reserved and much quieter. I don't do any drugs or anything or commit crime etc either. I am just a bit quirky.

I also talk about my past life experiences in a matter of fact informational way but people will misinterpret this as my being upset. I stopped being upset over said events long ago as they are ancient and can no longer hurt me (other than leaving me with an awareness of my vulnerability and a minor struggle with trust sometimes) but they seem to think I am in a state of distress over them. Usually any distress I am exhibiting is from feeling like I am under attack, especially in group situations and people seem to be ganging up on me. But I am not upset over the old life experience now. I was at the time, but not now. That event is long gone and cannot harm me. Only present events can upset me or potentially cause harm, not something that has long gone and is not happening in the hear and now.

My writing style is very different to my speaking style. It is much stronger, much more outgoing than I am in person. I am very meek and mild usually except when I am messing about on video being silly. I used to want to be an actress when i was young and did drama at A level equivalent study when I was younger, but it is not really my niche as such, even if it is just fun.

It is another way of expressing oneself and exploring ones imagination.

So I've no idea what types of people they attract, I do know they get confused between my online communication style and my real life personality though and I have had a few people take my videos too seriously when I was just being silly on them.

I never really get peoples reactions to things I do, they confuse the hell out of me.


I'm referring to the blogs where you're talking or prancing around in your underwear

You don't seem to be able to make a video in which you are properly covered up

I get the impression you like attention and are seeking specifically male attention via those videos and would say they are likely to attract the attention of the worst type of person

People will form their impressions of you from the evidence you put out there

I would call those videos foolhardy as opposed to silly, particularly if you live alone

Why not join an amateur dramatics group if you like drama?



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30 Mar 2013, 11:20 am

Oh you mean the underwear videos?

I am learning to appreciate the human body at all sizes. I want to do some sketching at some point actually of larger ladies as I do think society is scornful of women who are of a larger size and this can be unfair. Too judgmental.

I am presently trying to lose weight as I gained it whilst on the medications but I see nothing wrong with nudity etc as long as you are not parading it down the middle of a high street inappropriately. A video in my underwear is not all that shocking really especially as you can see no more than you would on a mainstream movie with a PG rating.

I'd go to a nudist beach or camp, even if don't have the perfect body.

I also love to dance and I was very much a Madonna fan growing up so blame her for the underwear thing :D. However, please be aware that although I like the Queen of Pops style (and she was my role model growing up) I do not do casual sex or sleep around. Dancing is my main form of stress relief as I am usually soothed by movement more than I am by sitting still (fidget, especially when I am bored...terrible fidget). Sitting still for too long seems to wind me up and stress me out unless I am sitting still doing something of interest such as researching sharks or cross stitching.

And yes I did want to attempt to feel sexy on the video, I like sex. I may not do casual sex and I may not sleep around but when I am in a relationship I have a very high sex drive. So that probably comes out on the video. Is there something wrong with sex? It is a perfectly natural function and if we didn't do it our species would not be here. Sex is natural.

At the end of the day it is a video, I am not running around naked down the high street or having sex with all and sundry, I am just dancing and wiggling my arse in my underwear. I don't get the big deal.



Last edited by bumble on 30 Mar 2013, 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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30 Mar 2013, 11:22 am

PS I am considering looking into amateur dramatics actually...but its whether I can handle the group thing when I am there. I prefer to socialise one on one see. Groups are very hard for me.

There is a massive difference between filming a video when you are home alone and acting or mingling with a large group of people.

Also in noisy environments I can't hear what people are saying, especially if they are all talking at once. I can't tune out the background noise so parties, group work etc has always been a nightmare for me. Even at Uni, my preference was for slinking off to work alone when I could. I had to do group work so I did but I struggled with it and it was exhausting.



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30 Mar 2013, 11:23 am

bumble wrote:
Oh you mean the underwear videos?

I am learning to appreciate the human body at all sizes. I want to do some sketching at some point actually of larger ladies as I do think society is scornful of women who are of a larger size.

I am presently trying to lose weight as I gained it whilst on the medications but I see nothing wrong with nudity etc as long as you are not parading it down the middle of a high street inappropriately. A video in my underwear is not all that shocking really especially as you can see no more than you would on a mainstream movie with a PG rating.

I'd go to a nudist beach or camp, even if don't have the perfect body.

I also love to dance and I was very much a Madonna fan growing up so blame her for the underwear thing :D. However, please be aware that although I like the Queen of Pops style (and she was my role model growing up) I do not do casual sex or sleep around. Dancing is my main form of stress relief as I am usually soothed by movement more than I am by sitting still (fidget, especially when I am bored...terrible fidget). Sitting still for too long seems to wind me up and stress me out unless I am sitting still doing something of interest such as researching sharks or cross stitching.

And yes I did want to attempt to feel sexy on the video, I like sex. I may not do casual sex and I may not sleep around but when I am in a relationship I have a very high sex drive. So that probably comes out on the video. Is there something wrong with sex? It is a perfectly natural function and if we didn't do it our species would not be here. Sex is natural.

At the end of the day it is a video, I am not running around naked down the high street or having sex with all and sundry, I am just dancing and wiggling my arse in my underwear. I don't get the big deal.


Well if you can't work out the danger from it yourself that's up to you



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30 Mar 2013, 11:27 am

Well it might attract a hng as they call them online but you attract those anyway no matter what you do. I can put a face pick up wearing my glasses and still attract a hng. Hell I've had profiles with no picture up and still attracted a hng.

They get around and are easy to spot: "U wanna webcam, wot u doin 2day, i am rubbin my dick cause its hard..."

That tends to give it away. That much I can read!

I don't reply as I don't do webcam with strangers or on a casual basis.



Last edited by bumble on 30 Mar 2013, 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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30 Mar 2013, 11:30 am

Know what else is high in sals? Most alcohols. (rye, gin & vodka have zero, dry white wines are the next lowest.) That would explain why drinking makes you feel suicidal vs. the effects of alcohol itself doing it, especially if you tended to drink sweeter red wines or fruit liqueurs.


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