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TheBadguy
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17 May 2013, 1:26 am

This is going to be long, but I needed to release all my thoughts for free and not have to pay two hundred dollars per session for a therapist.

I guess this goes into further background as to why my username is called The Badguy. It always seems in life someone, somewhere needs a scapegoat and a badguy. It just happens to be me most of the time.

Six months ago I met a woman who I really thought got me. She was smart and funny, when things worked, they worked. When things didn't they really didn't work. For me, I do not see badguys or goodguys. I really don't see them. When there is a problem that I see I see the problem and worked towards a solution. But everyone around me seems so fixated that their needs to be blame and there needs to be a badguy in every situation.

I tried to explain her long ago, that when there is a problem I see a relationship as equal, both parts have a say without fixing any blame or any problem. I'll never know if I really was the one who did wrong in the situation or if she was simply looking for a scapegoat.

A perfect example of one of our fights, was I wanted to spend Christmas evening with her. Note Christmas evening. She was suppose to spend the day with her family and me with mine. My family went out to see Django Unchained. We got out of six, perfect timing, imo to spend the evening with the woman I loved. I asked her if she was still busy and spending time with her family. She told me, she was planning to go see Les Mis, a two hour movie.

I was flabergasted, and a little upset. She cancelled our plans, to see a movie at 10pm and get out at 2am. I tried to talk to her about it. Asked her if the movie with her brother was a planned, she told me it was spontanous whim. Then she mentioned how I got to see a movie. Only because it was in the afternoon because I expected the evening with her.

There were a lot of situations like that. Where I tried to explain or try to understand something and she become defensive or whatever. Trying to fix the blame and trying to fit who is the badguy.

Though this thread isn't just about my love life either. I recently moved to Colorado four months ago. I was living with my relatives for that time, specifically my grandmother. Again I do not know if it was someone looking for a badguy or a scapegoat, and found it easy to pin me.

See my grandmother will never make sense to me, she is too contradictory and illogical for her own good. A perfect example of this was, we use to be able to use the internet freely. Then she had my grandfather turn it off at twelve midnight and turn back on at nine in the morning. It later became it turned off at eleven at night and turned back on at twelve in the afternoon.

She would say things like, I never get on the computer for anything other than my Facebook games.

Do you know why I get on the computer?

To write my novel, to check out insurance plans, to make appointments to the doctors and for my eyecare. To look for a job.

But Facebook is more important.

Then she would say things like, nine and eight in the morning was to early for anyone to be on the internet. You know what also, she would get unto Facebook at eight in the morning while drinking coffee, to play her Facebook games so her food doesn't rot on Cafe whatever.

Either way, there were several or so situations in the household, that led her to believe I did things to spite her. And led my grandfather to believe I do things on purpose to hurt people.

A good example would be, we adopted a dog. I care about all forms of life, imo money doesn't equal posession. You see my grandmother believed that the dog was hers because she bought it. Yet, I was the one feeding it, giving it time and attention and affection, it slept in my bedroom with me, followed me, I trained it. All she had done at the time was buy it.

We had an argument about a placement of a dog bowl, I believe a dog bowl is a doggy plate and don't like to see dog bowls on the floor. My training method is that after meal time, I put away the bowl and the dog knows that he isn't going to get more food. That is my training method, I have seen some people who have dogs who wake up in the morning and the dog runs straight to an empty bowl. I wanted to train its meal time when its meal time, when you wake up in the morning you go outside to the bathroom first.

Either way, that same day was the day before his vet visit. After the argument about something, minor imo, I went to gather up the information. His free vet care coupon, his shot list, etc. I'm the type of person who likes to do things the night before to make sure I have everything. I went to grab his folder and my grandmother immediatedly holds the folder up high where I cannot grab it. She asked, what do I need it for. I said, I was going to leave out his information for tomorrow so we have everything ready, she immediatedly goes, i do not know why you're trying to take over my dog. you don't need to do it I will do it tomorrow. I am the owner

I replied, if you're the owner feed him, train him, take him out, let him sleep with you, take him for a walk. I said this very calmly not in a bossing manner. She calls my grandfather down and says I am trying to boss her around. How I am yelling at her and that she wants me to go back to where I came from, which was outside of Colorado.

Either way the agreement that she made was that I wasn't allowed to his vet visit the next day. Which I was upset about because I had been the one with him the most, I simply wanted the best for him. I called the vet to see if I could cancel the appointment, now I understand this was wrong now. But at the time I was doing what I thought was the best. I hadn't exactly thought it all out I was kind overwhelmed and was worried that he wouldn't get good as care as he would if he were with me.

Long story short, my grandfather said that I was the type of person to betray my family and help complete strangers out. Family comes first.

Then there was another event, see my aunt and uncle in law are cool. They have similiar hobbies, geeky, nerdy hobbies. When we start talking about topics we like, we tend to go long and passionate. Whenever they came over to take me to game nights at their house, and visit my grandmother. My grandmother saw this as us leaving her out of the conversation. And that I was taking over the conversation. She told me, that she'd like to visit with her daughter and would like me to stay out of it.

A few months after that my aunt and her husband come over for dinner. I thought, no problem I sat at the dinner table even after dinner to listen to their conversation as I would have done this naturally at home if my own parents had company over. I kept getting dark looks from my grandmother, even though I remained quiet the whole evening and hadn't said a word.

Then a couple weeks or so after that. My aunt and her husband had come over to collect some things for a murder mystery dinner. Some of grandmother's old clothes to wear as a business suit. I had come home from work, they had been there for quite a long time, I play magic the gathering and they were about to leave. So I said, would you like to see my new deck? They said yes, they'd like to see it. I went into my room to get my deck.

While going out of my room my grandmother was about to talk to my aunt and uncle in law when we spoke at the same time. My grandmother exclaims, How rude for you to interupt me. I apologized. I told her to continue what she had to say, and instead she shutdown she refused to say anything. I hadn't even purposely went to interupt her, I just accidentally spoke out of turn and interupted her.

The next day after that, my grandmother actually brings up both the dinner and the conversation the day before. Says I wasn't suppose to be seen. The only time I should be part of the conversation is if I am called. I tried to talk to her calmly. She was the one yelling, telling me I couldn't talk. Telling me, it was her way and that she was done with the conversation. I asked her kindly to allow me to speak. She kept yelling at me.

I went to a Pathfinder event, and that very day I get a text saying I had two weeks to decide what I wanted to do, go back my my home state, or move out somewhere else.

That day I had a conversation with my grandfather who believed I was purposely trying to hurt people. He literally and I quote, "I do not do things to hurt my family. My family comes first, I put myself last before them."

Then not even a few days later, my sister and I went on a long walk. We went up to a conservation area, we also went to a gas station. She stated she needed something important and we took the twelve mile walk to Walmart. I had also split some water on my keyboard and it short circuited the keys, so I went across the street to Best Buy.

Well it was dark and we didn't know if the roads were safe. So we call for a ride home. We told grandmother, my sister needed this so we bought it. I didn't mention the keyboard because I didn't see it was important. It wasnt' any ommission of truth of any sort. The next day on Sunday, she walks into our bedroom and says, "I do not appreciated being lied to. You can disrespect me, but you cannot lie to me. I want you out soon." So I called a friend and moved into their place and rented out their spare bedroom.

In a nutshell my life is all kinds of weird. But what I find the most weird is how the tables have turned for me. See back in my homestate everyone outside of my immediate family thought I did things to hurt people or saw me as a scapegoat or as a badguy. But everyone here in Colorado who isn't part of my family believes me to be perfectly normal and completely understand me. While my family in Colorado believe I am a hostile individual set out to do horrible things versus my immediate family who believed I was normal.

I am not even sure any more what to believe of myself. Am I really a horrible person and people are just being kind to me to make feel like I am a good person? Or am I good person misunderstood as a bad person?

Is it me? Am I the problem?



Valkyrie2012
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17 May 2013, 1:48 am

I read your post and all I could think was that your grandma was selfish and treating you very unfairly.

You don't have a right to talk and visit with your own family? Why? Because she wants to talk and be center of attention instead of you? There is no crime in you talking. If you didn't let anyone get a word in edgewise - I could see their point, but to an extent.

I too am misunderstood by many in my family. Not to the degree you talked about here. I believe that there are many yardsticks in life. If they measure you with the wrong yardstick (NT yardstick, not and aspie yardstick) then you will always come up short in their eyes.

I wish it was easier for you.



Nikkt
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17 May 2013, 7:31 am

Yeah, damn. I'm offended on your behalf. It sounds like your Grandmother was looking for any and all excuses to cry victim. I don't want to be disrespectful, but it honestly sounds like she has a big problem, and I'd say 'don't take it personally' except I'm sure it'd be pretty impossible not to.

It also doesn't seem like anything you can do now will change her opinion of you - it seems that was solidified a long while ago.

I don't so much have a clear picture of your partner, though. Is she NT? Is the relationship becoming toxic or does it just involve a healthy amount of disagreement? No fighting in a relationship means it hasn't passed its superficial stage, but too much and too disastrous could be a sign that it's time to move on...


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BlackSabre7
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17 May 2013, 8:02 am

Keeping in mind I only have your post to go by.....

There are three things that came to my mind...

First, I agree that people often seem fixated on allocating blame, as opposed to solving the actual problem. A pet peeve of mine. I actually prefer to not dump blame on anyone as I think that in talking about the problem, anyone involved would figure out for themselves their role in it, and either change or not change their behaviour as they wanted (because ultimately, you cannot really MAKE anyone do anything). But people seem to think it's all about whom to blame. I suppose they want to be absolved of any expectation to think about the situation.

Second, you come across to me as someone who thinks a lot about what you do and why you do it, and it no doubt is genuinely what you think is best, but you seem to have trouble with the idea that people can also have ideas about what they think is best, and it may be different to what you think. If it were my house, and I bought a dog, I would really resent anyone else trying to make decisions about how the dog should be treated, and I wouldn't give a flying f*** how good their intentions were, or what they thought the dog needed. If I bought the dog for you, then it would be up to you. But I do not think this is what your grandmother intended, so I can see how this would seem to her.
I sometimes have to remind myself that people have a right to make their own decisions, and I make myself shut up and butt out when I disagree with them. Even if I know they are wrong and doing something stupid. Sometimes I seriously have to avoid them just so I don't have to watch the mistake blossom because I know it would upset me, and they won't listen. They have the right to make their mistakes.
You seem to forget to give people that room. It can come across as invasive if you keep trying to do things your way, even if it better. I think after a while, your grandparents would find you to be disrespectful, inconsiderate and selfish if you kept forgetting to ask them how they wanted to do things in their own place, and just did it your own way.

Third, it seems they would have done much better with you if they knew how to talk to you instead of doing the thing that so many NT's do, which is to 'be polite' and expect you to follow those magic rules that 'all decent people know'. So they try to manipulate things to solve the problem rather than just tell you the problem. Like what your grandmother did with the internet. Maybe it cost them more, or maybe she wanted you to do some mowing instead or something, but she didn't want to say, so she made up time rules. I think you have difficulty with that sort of thing, and intended no harm. They should have discussed all rules before you moved in, and told you what they expected without taking for granted that you would somehow just know. When they have people over for a talk, maybe they wait for you to leave so they can talk about things that are none of your business, or that they know you would not approve, but you don't go, and they are being too polite to ask you. So they get upset that you didn't know to give them their privacy.
Instead, they just let anger and resentment build up inside them until every little thing you did became a big thing for them, leaving you feeling like a bad guy.
You are not a bad guy.
Some of us are better off on our own, or with those rare others who seem to understand.
I had a nightmare experience living with an uncle and his family for a while. The wife treated me the way your grandmother seems to have treated you. It eventually got really ugly. I stayed too long and it took years to undo the damage it did to my head.

Be careful in your current situation. In my experience, any good situation could go sour.



theshawngorton
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17 May 2013, 8:20 am

Valkyrie2012 wrote:
I read your post and all I could think was that your grandma was selfish and treating you very unfairly.

You don't have a right to talk and visit with your own family? Why? Because she wants to talk and be center of attention instead of you? There is no crime in you talking. If you didn't let anyone get a word in edgewise - I could see their point, but to an extent.

I too am misunderstood by many in my family. Not to the degree you talked about here. I believe that there are many yardsticks in life. If they measure you with the wrong yardstick (NT yardstick, not and aspie yardstick) then you will always come up short in their eyes.

I wish it was easier for you.


NT's are like that. They LOVE passing the buck to anyone who isn't them. If it were me, I'd have talked back, cause that's soooo unfair. You did NOTHING wrong, and EVERYTHING right. She's a selfish person who is quite clearly narcissistic, like most people ultimately are. But, I too have fallen victim with those kind of people.



TheBadguy
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17 May 2013, 8:40 am

@Blacksabre: Actually here is the funny thing. I tried really hard, when I cooked I cleaned up after myself. I cleaned the counters, i did the dishes, I amde my bed the way she asked which was military style. I tried so hard to do the things she did ask.

--

About my girlfriend, we broke up. There were a lot of other problems in our six month relationship. I am an introvert I really need time to myself or I am exhausted, just exhausted. Like this whole week I have been working non stop Monday through Friday and my life has quite literally become eat, work, sleep. I'm just to exhausted to do anything for myself.

She needed and wanted constant attention actually it was very much one sided. If she didn't contact me it was okay. If I didn't contact her, it wasn't okay.

Perfect example was, she was at work mind you. She worked from two in the afternoon to nine in the evening about closing time for her. I thought well since she is at work it should be okay to do a game night with my aunt and her husband. I hadn't texted her the whole day and she got mad at me despite the fact that she was at work.

It's like she never really understood my needs and what I need. When I am silent it is me trying to recharge my batteries, it isn't to ignore someone, it isn't to purposely punish them. I just need my time.

When we worked we really worked. When we fought we really destroyed each other. We broke up in February, its just we recently talked and I just have this feeling like she did to me with her ex, she's probably speaking of my atrocities to him. I know I am everyone's badguy in their story. Of all the horror and wrong I have done.

And I know I do wrong. I know every crack in my frame to be honest. I know I am stubborn, to blunt and honest for my own good. I know I can be wildly independent. I know I have problems with knowing how to behave decent, but I do my best to try my best to be a human being.

She always got upset because I tried to appease her when she was mad. It became a habit after years of mental and physical abuse from my own parents. She always got upset when I tried to read her or tried to understand something. Like when we would talke sometimes she was awkward and silent. Her personality was very different from that, she was bubbly, loud, and had a bright personality. When was she was quiet I'd like to know what is on her mind.

I know a lot of other things, my own insecurities, my own faults and failures. I'm painfully aware that in the NT mind, I am not even classified to be a human being. I'm in pieces and I am not even whole.

But I also like to say, having a relationship with me is like having a relationship with fire. I can provide care, justice, and warmth. I give light and protection. And I do give people someone to trust. But having a relationship with fire can be dangerous, fire can burn you if you get to close, fire also has the tendency to explode if confined or if accidentally given fuel fire can burn and scorch the land. Fire is a shifting element. Just as my nature can be shifting. If you are in kind to me, I will be in kind back. If you treat me with respect, I will treat you with respect.

If you fuel the fire or try to contain me into something small, things will not turn out the way you expected them.

And maybe that's my problem, I am not fluid like water.



theshawngorton
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17 May 2013, 8:45 am

Not fluid like NTs, that is.



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17 May 2013, 8:57 am

Someway I feel identified with what you say. Some times I had conflicts in the past (with flatmates, for example) that I never understood. I even doubted if I was a conflictive and difficult person.

It took me years to understand. I don't know if this is your case, but it was mine and perhaps you can find the experience helpful.

I have this 'unemotional' part of Asperger. It doesn't mean that I have no emotions, but emotions is somethings that doesn't cover every aspect of my life. Emotions are very restricted to close friends and important people. With regard to the rest of the people, I'm very civilized and collaborative and always try to be helpful (it's the way I am), but I feel no emotions at all. And this way is how I used to behave with those people: polite but very cold. Not because I had something against them, but because I don't feel the need of showing warmness towards people that are not close circle. Even if whe shared an appartement, for example.

That led me to conflicts that I never understood.

Why? Well, NTs are very dependants on emotions. In general, how they behave with other people depends on what they feel about them. Of course, there's rules but at the end of the day, every NT can self-deceive himself very easily to break any civilized rule if their emotions lead him (or her) to that. That means that NTs feel threatened when they are with somebody with who they don't have a minimum emotional connection. They unciounsly feel that if somebody has no emotional reponse to them, this person will end up trying to hurt them. Because this is the NT way. And when they feel threatened, they attack.

I didn't understand this for years, since I like to follow social rules and try to be collaborative and helpful, with no need to share emotions. Emotions is something that I keep for very close people. But as long as I was doing nothing damaging, where was the problem?. The problem is that when NTs feel threatened, they attack, and then they look how to self-justify themselves to believe that they had a rational reason to attack and to blame you.

What I learnt to do: faking this. NTs only need a slight amount of emotional performance. The right amount to know that you have a positive emotional response with regard to them and feel safe, and then everything is OK. I call it 'walking the pet'. Since I do that, I didn't have a single conflict.

EDIT

TheBadguy wrote:
@Blacksabre: Actually here is the funny thing. I tried really hard, when I cooked I cleaned up after myself. I cleaned the counters, i did the dishes, I amde my bed the way she asked which was military style. I tried so hard to do the things she did ask.


That can make all even worse, since you're putting them in a contradictory situation (I know it, I had this same experience before too). The feel an emotional conflict, so they feel threatened and then try to hurt you back, blaming you of course. When you try harder to do the right thing... it becomes more contradictory and difficult to keep blaming you, so they feel bad for it, that it's not nice, and they interpret that is your purpose to manipulate them and to hurt them, what reinforce the idea of that you were trying to hurt them. And so they blame you even more.

Yeap, it's a sick logic. But it's the way they work.


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17 May 2013, 9:09 am

Greb wrote:
Someway I feel identified with what you say. Some times I had conflicts in the past (with flatmates, for example) that I never understood. I even doubted if I was a conflictive and difficult person.

It took me years to understand. I don't know if this is your case, but it was mine and perhaps you can find the experience helpful.

I have this 'unemotional' part of Asperger. It doesn't mean that I have no emotions, but emotions is somethings that doesn't cover every aspect of my life. Emotions are very restricted to close friends and important people. With regard to the rest of the people, I'm very civilized and collaborative and always try to be helpful (it's the way I am), but I feel no emotions at all. And this way is how I used to behave with those people: polite but very cold. Not because I had something against them, but because I don't feel the need of showing warmness towards people that are not close circle. Even if whe shared an appartement, for example.

That led me to conflicts that I never understood.

Why? Well, NTs are very dependants on emotions. In general, how they behave with other people depends on what they feel about them. Of course, there's rules but at the end of the day, every NT can self-deceive himself very easily to break any civilized rule if their emotions lead him (or her) to that. That means that NTs feel threatened when they are with somebody with who they don't have a minimum emotional connection. They unciounsly feel that if somebody has no emotional reponse to them, this person will end up trying to hurt them. Because this is the NT way. And when they feel threatened, they attack.

I didn't understand this for years, since I like to follow social rules and try to be collaborative and helpful, with no need to share emotions. Emotions is something that I keep for very close people. But as long as I was doing nothing damaging, where was the problem?. The problem is that when NTs feel threatened, they attack, and then they look how to self-justify themselves to believe that they had a rational reason to attack and to blame you.

What I learnt to do: faking this. NTs only need a slight amount of emotional performance. The right amount to know that you have a positive emotional response with regard to them and feel safe, and then everything is OK. I call it 'walking the pet'. Since I do that, I didn't have a single conflict.

EDIT

TheBadguy wrote:
@Blacksabre: Actually here is the funny thing. I tried really hard, when I cooked I cleaned up after myself. I cleaned the counters, i did the dishes, I amde my bed the way she asked which was military style. I tried so hard to do the things she did ask.


That can make all even worse, since you're putting them in a contradictory situation (I know it, I had this same experience before too). The feel an emotional conflict, so they feel threatened and then try to hurt you back, blaming you of course. When you try harder to do the right thing... it becomes more contradictory and difficult to keep blaming you, so they feel bad for it, that it's not nice, and they interpret that is your purpose to manipulate them and to hurt them, what reinforce the idea of that you were trying to hurt them. And so they blame you even more.


NTs, get on our level! Emotions are useless unless you're close to a person. Not including MD emotions, that is.



TheBadguy
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17 May 2013, 9:24 am

That's the thing a lot of people think I only care about myself, a lot of people think I only think about myself and a lot of people simply believe I do not care. I'll never understand why, I do everything to show them I care. To me, saying I care isn't good enough, it's actions that I take that show I care. But that never seems to be enough for people.



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17 May 2013, 9:29 am

TheBadguy wrote:
@Blacksabre: Actually here is the funny thing. I tried really hard, when I cooked I cleaned up after myself. I cleaned the counters, i did the dishes, I amde my bed the way she asked which was military style. I tried so hard to do the things she did ask.


Well maybe they just wanted to be on their own. They must have their own reasons, but they really should have tried to talk to you about it. It is so frustrating when you feel like a criminal, but no-one wants to tell you why they seem to think you are.

About the girl friend.... I read somewhere that a lot of infuriating female behaviour can be interpreted to be simply "Do you love me?" in disguise. I kind of think this is true. Some females are very insecure and if you don't keep blowing on that fire, it goes out. Or like a boat with a hole in it that will sink if you don't keep busy with the bucket. I sometimes feel that way, and give my husband a hard time over it. And I don't even like him :roll: But only sometimes.
So if you don't ring her, you must not love her. And if you get upset that she does not ring you, then you must not love her. From what you said about her needing constant attention, it might be the case.
I am not saying it is rational, or fair, but I think some females are that way.

It may well be that you are not the best choice for each other, I wouldn't know, but maybe that might give you something to keep in mind for the future. I think you need someone who is OK to give you space when you need it, and she may have been too insecure for that.



theshawngorton
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17 May 2013, 9:38 am

Some? You mean most, right?



BlackSabre7
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17 May 2013, 10:14 am

theshawngorton wrote:
Some? You mean most, right?


Wellll, I haven't exactly done a survey about it, but I'm pretty sure if I look hard enough I will find at least one out there who is not like that :!:

She will be the one everyone says is a stuck up b***h. :lol:



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17 May 2013, 10:26 am

TheBadguy wrote:
That's the thing a lot of people think I only care about myself, a lot of people think I only think about myself and a lot of people simply believe I do not care. I'll never understand why, I do everything to show them I care. To me, saying I care isn't good enough, it's actions that I take that show I care. But that never seems to be enough for people.


Yeap, it's not about what you do, it's about how they feel emotionally with you. And yeap, it's stupid. But NTs are a majority out there. So, unfortunately, they set the rules of the game.


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18 May 2013, 1:58 am

Greb wrote:
TheBadguy wrote:
That's the thing a lot of people think I only care about myself, a lot of people think I only think about myself and a lot of people simply believe I do not care. I'll never understand why, I do everything to show them I care. To me, saying I care isn't good enough, it's actions that I take that show I care. But that never seems to be enough for people.


Yeap, it's not about what you do, it's about how they feel emotionally with you. And yeap, it's stupid. But NTs are a majority out there. So, unfortunately, they set the rules of the game.


I'll never understand this. Because I would think actions, what people will do and are willing to do would mean more than emotions