Why is Theory of Mind (ToM) such a controversal concept?

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30 May 2013, 1:10 pm

I was reading a recent thread here in "General Autism Discussion" (GAD), and I was wondering what about "Theory of Mind" (ToM), as a concept, makes it so problematic.

Quote:

Theory of mind (often abbreviated "ToM") is the ability to attribute mental states—beliefs, intents, desires, pretending, knowledge, etc.—to oneself and others and to understand that others have beliefs, desires, and intentions that are different from one's own.

Quoted from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_mind

A great deal of the controversy seems to stem from a handful of researchers, who may have been quoted well of out context, who supposedly suggested that Aspies don't have ToM. If one goes by other threads posted here in GAD and other parts of WP, sadly, some medical "professionals" have appeared to adopt ToM as some sort of "Aspie-test", ignoring (among other things) even the most non-controversial parts of DSM-IV-TR/DSM-5 and ICD-10.

Another issue is that there appears to be an unusual amount of confusion about what ToM is. While there does not appear to be one set reference to the term, if we make reference to the Wikipedia definition cited above, it's not all that hard to meet that threshold. Understanding that another human being wants chicken instead of pork would seem to meet the threshold noted above.

Now, in the interests of disclosure, while I have no problem with the definition above, I have a serious disagreement with arguments that Aspies don't have ToM. Plenty of people, Aspie, NT, Valyrian dragon-riders, all have issues determining WHAT another person might want that moment, but that does not implicate the existing of ToM.

To circle back to the opening question, what is it with this concept that causes so much controversy?

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redrobin62
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30 May 2013, 1:17 pm

I'm a very literal person. So, to use your example, I wouldn't know someone wanted chicken instead of pork unless they told me. How else could I know what they want? Yeah. I'm one of the people who don't get ToM at all.

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AgentPalpatine
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30 May 2013, 1:18 pm

redrobin62 wrote:

Yes, but you know that there is a possibility that someone would want something else.

redrobin62
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30 May 2013, 1:23 pm

I must really lack ToM. I mean, I can guess that someone may not want the chicken, but again, I'd just be guessing and wouldn't know unless they told me.

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30 May 2013, 1:40 pm

In various books and articles I have read that autism causes:

1)lack of Theory of Mind

or

2)Theory of Mind that develops at a later age than is usual for neurotypical kids.

It is probably a spectrum in itself in that some people develop very, very well, while others develop it well enought to pass the Sally Anne test but not to figure out more subtle things while still others don't develop it at all. For those who do develop it, there may also be a different timeline from neurtotypical kids so that it develops but at a later age. It probably also gets jumbled up with not getting non-verbals or taking things literally. Even if you have a solid Theory of Mind, if you miss non-verbals your interpretation will be off even if it is based on a solid theory of what the other person could plausibly be thinking.

Amongst neurotypical people I certainly see a spectrum of Theory of Mind. Perhaps anybody not diagnosed with autism (as well as many who are, but perhaps at a later age) will pass the Sally-Anne test. But if you listen to people talk, there is great variation in how well NTs can figure out what another person is thinking. Some people are very, very good at it. Some people really do think everyone else thinks just like them which will allow them to pass the Sally-Anne test but not much else. And everything in between.

"Impaired Theory of Mind" (which is how I've often read it) is so vague that it can refer to having no Theory of Mind at all, having it but developing it at a later age or having it in varying degrees. It might even mistakenly refer to not reading non-verbals accurately which could look like no Theory of Mind in an office setting. I think the attempts to simplify Theory of Mind down to "have it/don't have it" is what causes the controversy because it's not that simple.

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30 May 2013, 1:44 pm

I think that ToM is only useful as a description of an end product -- what's more important than the quality or accuracy of a person's Theories of Minds (plurality intended) is how they arrive at them...and the reasons for whether or not a person habitually develops Theories of Minds at all.

Sometimes people seem to talk about theory of mind as if it's a singular skill rather than the product of many different types of information processing/cognition (a skill-set) as well as lived experience and context. I think this is a big part of what causes problems/controversy when it comes to thinking about and applying ToM.

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Last edited by animalcrackers on 30 May 2013, 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

qawer
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30 May 2013, 2:28 pm

Quote:

Theory of mind deficit: an inability to recognize that other people have thoughts, feelings and intentions
that are different to one's own, and an inability to intuitively guess what these might be

WHAT IS A THEORY OF MIND?
A theory of mind is the cognitive or 'mind reading' process, or ability that we all individually have in order to
make sense of the world we live in. Every individual's thoughts, knowledge, beliefs and desires make up his
own unique theory of mind. From the age of around 4 years, children understand that other people have
thoughts, knowledge, beliefs and desires that will influence their behavior. However, people with autism and
Asperger Syndrome appear to have some difficulties conceptualizing and appreciating the thoughts and
feelings of others. It is this 'Mind-Blindness' that may impair autistic people as well as people with Asperger
Syndrome to be able to relate to and understand the behaviors of others. Mind blindness also means the
person has difficulty in distinguishing whether someone's actions are intentional or accidental.

Weak central coherence: an inability to bring together various details from perception to make a
meaningful whole

WHAT IS THE CENTRAL COHERENCE THEORY?
Central coherence is the ability to focus on both details as well as wholes. People with autism however,
appear to have a heightened focus on details rather than wholes, a cognitive style termed 'weak central
coherence'. This is the reason why some individuals with autism have hypersensitive sensory perceptions.
This inability to understand wholes resides in the frontal cortex of the brain, which in turn also explains
theory of mind deficits in people with autism. The inability to hold information in mind in order to use it later in
other tasks is what causes the autistic individual to lack central coherence. Grandin (1995) states: "I cannot
hold one piece of information in my mind while I manipulate the next step in the sequence".

Executive dysfunction: impairment or deficits in the higher-order processes that enable us to plan,
sequence, initiate, and sustain our behavior towards some goal, incorporating feedback and making
adjustments along the way.

WHAT IS EXECUTIVE FUNCTION?
Executive function can be defined as the way in which people monitor and control their thoughts and actions
(Carlson & Moses, 2001). Executive function is actually a broad category that includes such processes like
working memory, planning, cognitive flexibility, and inhibitory control. Inhibitory control is one aspect of
executive function that is particularly relevant to language development. Inhibitory control is the ability to
restrain (or inhibit) potentially interfering responses and to self regulate in certain situations
If we break down the skills or functions into sub functions, we might say that executive functions tap into the
following abilities or skills: goal, plan, sequence, prioritize, organize, initiate, inhibit, pace, shift, self-monitor,
emotional control and completing.

Source

People use their ToM to make sense of the world. It's a way of processing all detailed information that comes in into a meaningful "big picture".

That's where Asperger-confusion enters the picture. Without a common ToM it's endlessly more difficult to make sense of the world.

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30 May 2013, 2:38 pm

qawer wrote:

.
People use their ToM to make sense of the world. It's a way of processing all detailed information that comes in into a meaningful "big picture".

That's where Asperger-confusion enters the picture. Without a common ToM it's endlessly more difficult to make sense of the world.

You don't need Theory of Mind to make sense of the world. You do need it to make sense of other people, to some extent, but the world is not limited to people.

If you are completely alone in an enviroment (for example, alone in your apartment) you don't need Theory of Mind to go about your business. You won't need it until you start interacting with other people. But you will need Executive Function to get stuff done all alone in your apartment.

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30 May 2013, 2:53 pm

Janissy wrote:

If you are completely alone in an enviroment (for example, alone in your apartment) you don't need Theory of Mind to go about your business.

You need a theory of your own mind to go about your business. ToM covers your own mind as well.

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30 May 2013, 3:20 pm

qawer wrote:

Janissy wrote:

If you are completely alone in an enviroment (for example, alone in your apartment) you don't need Theory of Mind to go about your business.

You need a theory of your own mind to go about your business. ToM covers your own mind as well.

Are you seriously suggesting that you believe that Aspie verbal and non-verbal communication and processing differences are the result of Aspies "not knowing they have a mind"? Because no matter how many websites you cite to, it does'nt make sense.

Now, if your hypothesis was valid, having ToM is all that would be required for verbal and non-verbal communication issues to disappear. That does not appear to be the case in any published paper, nor with any WPer I'm familar with on WP.

Second sentence edited for clarity.

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30 May 2013, 3:29 pm

AgentPalpatine wrote:

Are you seriously suggesting that you believe that Aspie verbal and non-verbal communication and processing differences are the result of Aspies "not knowing they have a mind"? Because no matter how many websites you cite to, it does'nt make sense.

Now, if your hypothesis was valid, if an Aspie understood that other individuals can have different views, then one would expect verbal and non-verbal communication issues to disappear. That does not appear to be the case.

Hi AgentPalpatine,

The big difference, the way I see it, is whether you understand it intellectually or intuitively. It's the intuitive understanding that is (perhaps only partly) missing.

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30 May 2013, 3:59 pm

My Theory of Mind didn't improve until I became socially adjusted, and by socially adjusted I mean I learned what makes a society, what makes the society I live in, and the way that affects how people interact with one another. Before my theory of mind improved, I looked at everything at the surface, not realizing there were dots to connect. Knowing that everyone is as stressed as I am about the same things that I am made it far easier to empathize with people, because before I wanted to empathize but didn't know how, or what to empathize with. So once I stopped thinking in a vacuum, my anxiety decreased. It's a lot easier to relax when I know what's going to happen next and how I might handle that. And its also nice to know that I'm not wrong and I shouldn't feel bad. So it's that kind of thing that helped me.

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30 May 2013, 4:14 pm

a young autistic person approached me in a supermarket one day, and asked me "can you tell me where daddy is?" not MY "daddy," just daddy. as thought he thought that his daddy was MY daddy, also. IMHO, that is impaired TOM in a nutshell.

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30 May 2013, 4:56 pm

If it was me in the supermarket -

1. I wouldn't have guessed the kid was autistic unless a parent or someone who knows him told me.
2. I wouldn't have thought he'd meant my and his father. I would've thought he was young and awkward and doesn't know language well enough to posit his question the right way.

NB. I once saw a kid in a supermarket who was non verbal and simply stared in one place while standing in a forward leaning position. I've always thought he could've been autistic, but of course, since no one told me, I'm just guessing.

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30 May 2013, 5:05 pm

auntblabby wrote:

He might not have been thinking about you at all, which is a different kind of lack of ToM than thinking that his daddy is also your daddy.

This is the lack of ToM that I commonly display. I don't implicitly think the wrong thoughts about what other people are thinking. I usually don't think about what they are thinking at all.

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30 May 2013, 5:10 pm

auntblabby wrote:

If that happened to me I would have just thought that they were young and immature enough to think that since they call their father daddy that it was his name.

I called my mother by her first name ever since I was little. I did because that was her name.

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