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sixstring
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04 Jun 2013, 7:38 am

So many people say they that they always like and appreciate honesty, that they hate being lied to.
But I found it to simply not be true. The only other possibility I see is that NT's have a very different definition of honesty.

I've experienced that most NT's only hate being lied to when it has a (possibly) negative consequence to them, and only appreciate the truth when they directly ask for it. But even then the truth is not always appreciated.
I found that if nobody straight-up asked for the truth, and saying it can hurt someone's feelings, you need to just shut up, even if speaking the truth is important in such a moment.
You're expected to respect someones opinion, even if you know the cold facts that makes that persons opinion straight-up wrong.

And then there are the infamous "Do I look fat in these jeans?" questions. As if you could ever speak the truth if it's not positive.

Do you experience it this way?



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04 Jun 2013, 8:17 am

Truth and honesty are not the same thing. Being honest with someone who needs reassurance means telling that person what would reassure them, whether its true or not. Truth is about what is consistent with you, the speaker.



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04 Jun 2013, 8:50 am

That whole thing is just stupid. I think I have finally got my husband to understand that. There are only 2 reasons to ever as if you look fat in something: Looking for pointless forced compliments that mean nothing and actually not wanting to wear something that makes you look fat. You wouldn't believe how difficult it is to get an NT to actually be honest rather than deceitful and giving dishonest flattery.



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04 Jun 2013, 8:52 am

I also find even aspies don't like to hear the truth. I have seen quite a few members here on the spectrum ask a question and then claim "You're so mean" tactics or saying they got rude responses or claim they are being bullied.

It's a human thing and even aspies don't always want to hear your honest opinion or the truth when they ask.


I don't apologize anymore if they are so upset. They ask, got the answer they didn't like, not my problem. I'm tired of the BS.


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04 Jun 2013, 9:05 am

It's not the truth as such that they hate, it's hearing things that are hurtful to them. Which is perfectly understandable.


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04 Jun 2013, 9:17 am

Who_Am_I wrote:
It's not the truth as such that they hate, it's hearing things that are hurtful to them. Which is perfectly understandable.


Right. Also if someone has the wrong perception of them. Maybe they are upset because of how worried they are how they come off as and how misunderstood they are. Or maybe they are upset people jumped to the wrong conclusions without asking for more information so they judged instead or maybe it's their ignorance they are upset about and their judgement.


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04 Jun 2013, 9:20 am

sixstring wrote:
I found that if nobody straight-up asked for the truth, and saying it can hurt someone's feelings, you need to just shut up, even if speaking the truth is important in such a moment.

If someone I care about the well-being of was doing something I thought was the wrong path, I would say something. But, I would choose my timing very carefully. Sometimes people are more receptive than others.
Only if I thought it was important though. Otherwise, I would hold my tongue.



Tori0326
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04 Jun 2013, 9:34 am

They seem to have a problem speaking the real truth too. I've struggled with deciding if it's just flat out lying or it's an NT trait to not be accurate and exaggerate a lot.
Like my partner may come home from work and say "That's it! I'm not going back!" but she really does go back, meanwhile I really think she's quitting. She overstates things often but I've determined it's really more of a expressive device, venting her frustration or anger, or even expressing happiness over something, and she's not really lying in the classic sense. Meanwhile, I'm probably too accurate and probably bore NTs with details.

The only problem is that when an NT is known to overstate things you don't really know when they really mean it, like the boy who cried wolf. For two years she's been coming home threatening to quit and then really did a couple weeks ago. I thought it was just her blowing off steam again. The whole thing is pretty confusing for me. I really don't know what to believe half the time.



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04 Jun 2013, 9:41 am

sixstring wrote:
So many people say they that they always like and appreciate honesty, that they hate being lied to.
But I found it to simply not be true. The only other possibility I see is that NT's have a very different definition of honesty.

I've experienced that most NT's only hate being lied to when it has a (possibly) negative consequence to them, and only appreciate the truth when they directly ask for it. But even then the truth is not always appreciated.
I found that if nobody straight-up asked for the truth, and saying it can hurt someone's feelings, you need to just shut up, even if speaking the truth is important in such a moment.
You're expected to respect someones opinion, even if you know the cold facts that makes that persons opinion straight-up wrong.

And then there are the infamous "Do I look fat in these jeans?" questions. As if you could ever speak the truth if it's not positive.

Do you experience it this way?


I think you make an astute observation here. I think when aspies understand that in social and political situations that appearances matter far more than reality, we can then begin to understand the social world around us a bit better. We need to realize that normal people are rarely swayed by facts, but rather by what appeals to them emotionally. The good politician is very adept at appealing to this side of people, which is something aspies lack.

Nor is the human capacity for self-deception always a bad thing. I think we developed this capacity to deal with situations that appear hopeless, and when rational thinking would tell us to give up. But if we can lie to ourselves that things aren't as bad as they appear to be, we can hang in there, and maybe things will improve. At base, I think the capacity to deceive ourselves is a survival mechanism.



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04 Jun 2013, 9:42 am

You can sometimes be honest AND nice if you're creative.
example:

"Do I look fat in these jeans?"

A. I think you look nicer in the other ones.
B. Why don't you wear your red dress? You look beautiful in that.

Not lying and not saying anything negative, either! Granted, sometimes it is hard to come up with these kind of responses on the spot. Sometimes you can buy time by pretending you need to think about the question for a few seconds.



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04 Jun 2013, 9:46 am

People would rather believe a pleasant lie (even one they've made up for themselves) than be forced to accept an unpleasant truth.

That's just human nature.



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04 Jun 2013, 9:49 am

I think it depends on the context.

And I can actually relate to NTs on that one. I can't always handle the truth, and would rather not hear it. Sometimes they say ''ignorance is bliss''.


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04 Jun 2013, 9:59 am

Thelibrarian wrote:
Nor is the human capacity for self-deception always a bad thing. I think we developed this capacity to deal with situations that appear hopeless, and when rational thinking would tell us to give up. But if we can lie to ourselves that things aren't as bad as they appear to be, we can hang in there, and maybe things will improve. At base, I think the capacity to deceive ourselves is a survival mechanism.

True . . . when I look back at some of the things I've been convinced of at the time, I realize how far off base I was. But those beliefs did get me through hard times.



Tori0326
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04 Jun 2013, 10:14 am

Thelibrarian wrote:
We need to realize that normal people are rarely swayed by facts, but rather by what appeals to them emotionally. The good politician is very adept at appealing to this side of people, which is something aspies lack.


And this is why so many people unfriend me on facebook. :roll:
I want to know the truth, I speak the truth and that's just too upsetting. No, I don't tell people their kids are ugly. :shrug:



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04 Jun 2013, 10:34 am

Ann2011 wrote:
Thelibrarian wrote:
Nor is the human capacity for self-deception always a bad thing. I think we developed this capacity to deal with situations that appear hopeless, and when rational thinking would tell us to give up. But if we can lie to ourselves that things aren't as bad as they appear to be, we can hang in there, and maybe things will improve. At base, I think the capacity to deceive ourselves is a survival mechanism.

True . . . when I look back at some of the things I've been convinced of at the time, I realize how far off base I was. But those beliefs did get me through hard times.


Ann, I agree. This is why much of the left sneers at religion, calling it the opiate of the people. They are of course right, but fail to realize that sometimes palliatives are good things. Problems arise when the use of palliative ideas get out of hand and begin to interfere with our ability to deal with reality.



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04 Jun 2013, 11:07 am

YippySkippy wrote:
You can sometimes be honest AND nice if you're creative.
example:

"Do I look fat in these jeans?"

A. I think you look nicer in the other ones.
B. Why don't you wear your red dress? You look beautiful in that.

Not lying and not saying anything negative, either! Granted, sometimes it is hard to come up with these kind of responses on the spot. Sometimes you can buy time by pretending you need to think about the question for a few seconds.


C. No. These jeans successfully conceal your body weight and make you look thinner.