Paper: Is schizophrenia on the autism spectrum?

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TPE2
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24 Apr 2011, 7:33 pm

http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.brainres.2010.11.031

Quote:
Abstract

With the ongoing consideration of the diagnostic criteria for mental disorders that is active in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-V) and International Classification of Diseases (ICD-11) revision processes, it is timely to review the phenomenological overlap between autism and schizophrenia. These disorders have at various times been regarded alternatively as closely related and as non-overlapping and incompatible. Nevertheless, there are several reports in the literature that have described individuals with both autism and schizophrenia, and the broader phenotypes of these disorders clearly intersect. Recent studies reveal theory of mind deficits in both disorders, and mirror neuron impairments also appear to be shared. There also may be similar connectivity deficits emerging in functional imaging studies, and both disorders share several genetic signals that are being identified through detection of copy number variants. Taken together, these data suggest that it may be time to revisit the possibility that these disorders are related.


Attention - I did not read the paper, only the abstract.



ocdgirl123
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24 Apr 2011, 7:59 pm

This disorder freaks me out. I am afraid of it. I am not afraid of depression, bipolar, anxiety or anything other mental disorder. Just this one. I'm almost crying right now.

I used to look for hours and hours and hours as part of my OCD on this disorder and now, I have it. :(


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Last edited by ocdgirl123 on 24 Apr 2011, 8:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

aspie48
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24 Apr 2011, 8:01 pm

the first question one should ask when one is faced with a possible answer is "does this answer interfere with my own self preservation". schizophrenia is regarded by most people as a destructive disease. although i hate labels unfortunately they do carry weight, unfortunately this one carries a lot of weight with it. i think it is a bad idea for autistics to portray themselves as being related to schizophrenia. i do not like to make prejudiced and judgmental statements like these but i think it is necessary for my personal well being.



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24 Apr 2011, 8:34 pm

If I have schizophrenia, I would like to know about it before it gets to the "KGB are after me" stage (or insert-debilitating-symptom-here for whatever non-paranoid variety we're supposed to be related to). Regardless, the fact that it may be time to revisit the possibility that the two might be related hasn't exactly got me petrified.



SilverShoelaces
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24 Apr 2011, 8:42 pm

Quote:
Recent studies reveal theory of mind deficits in both disorders, and mirror neuron impairments also appear to be shared.


I would like to see concrete evidence of theory of mind deficits in autism, plzkthx. =_=# Just because an autist's theory of mind is not easily observable to a NT doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Having read the article, I am not entirely satisfied with the claims.



wavefreak58
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24 Apr 2011, 8:55 pm

Doesn't schizophrenia require delusions and/or hallucinations? Isn't it possible to be autistic without these?


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24 Apr 2011, 9:00 pm

My cousin is schizophrenic; I have autism. There is not the slightest similarity.

As for papers & research, they could get the same results comparing brunettes with redheads. Or autism with measles. Or doctors with psychologists :lol:

My cousin sees, hears, and converses with people who are not there. I don't have any problems like that, although I do talk to myself and to my dog.

The DSM-V is a terrifying prospect, but since there's nothing I can do, I try not to think about it till it arrives. This is based on my lack of trust in doctors (now *there's* a solid reality!).



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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24 Apr 2011, 9:02 pm

There could be a connection. Who knows, maybe a certain percentage of autistics might go on to develop schizophrenia later.
Also, the trend is diagnosing children with autism instead of childhood schizophrenia since schizophrenia, by definition, affects late teens to young adults, not young children.
Positive symptoms must be present or a diagnosis of schizophrenia is impossible.



bergie
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24 Apr 2011, 9:05 pm

Isn't Schizophrenia a chemical imbalance where Autism is a neurological condition?



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24 Apr 2011, 9:15 pm

is it possible schizophrenia is late onset autism? so that since it happens at a different time, different things are effected corresponding roughly to the time of development? I don't know.

I think they are related but really the definition of schizophrenia makes no sense to me so I can't say for certain. It's just a big category for oddballs and catatonics.



Apple_in_my_Eye
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24 Apr 2011, 9:16 pm

I was just going to write that I hope this doesn't result in recommendations that neuroleptics be used to 'treat' ASD's (as they seem to be standard procedure for SZ (despite evidence showing they may actually harm long-term recovery)). But then I thought that was a little too paranoid. Then, I read the abstract, and at the end it says this:

Quote:
► Autism and schizophrenia have therapeutic targets in common.


Now, that could mean all kinds of things. It could be behavioral stuff, I suppose. But it sure makes me think of drugs, specifically neuroleptics, which I see increasingly prescribed for non-SZ purposes (and not that they're even great for that). That class of drugs, even beyond the Parkinsonism, tardive dyskinsia, neuroleptic malignant syndrome, have a pretty dark and dubious history. Meaning: corruption, of science and the medical establishment. (I recommend "Mad in America," by Robert Whitaker for a good history about neuroleptics.)

I wonder if it is possible to find out if pharmaceutical company money was involving in the funding of this research?



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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24 Apr 2011, 9:44 pm

buryuntime wrote:
is it possible schizophrenia is late onset autism? so that since it happens at a different time, different things are effected corresponding roughly to the time of development? I don't know.

I think they are related but really the definition of schizophrenia makes no sense to me so I can't say for certain. It's just a big category for oddballs and catatonics.

Schizophrenia might have a few things in common with autism, but not enough to be called "late onset autism" since autism doesn't feature the positive symptoms of schizophrenia. Autistics do not hear voices or have a delusional system in place and these are major components of schizophrenia.
Thought disorder also occurs with schizophrenia. Do you consider those with autism to have thought disorder?



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24 Apr 2011, 10:04 pm

people with schizophrenia have feelings and thoughts that others are out to get them and hurt them in some way, or that when they see tow people whispering they right away assume it is about them, a real strong sense of paranoia.
I don't have AS but my little guy does(he is 6) and I have never seen him experiance any sort of paranoia, if anything the complete opposite, he honestly doesn't even notice if people are laughing directly at him even if they were blue in the face.


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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24 Apr 2011, 10:15 pm

DoriansMom wrote:
people with schizophrenia have feelings and thoughts that others are out to get them and hurt them in some way, or that when they see tow people whispering they right away assume it is about them, a real strong sense of paranoia.
I don't have AS but my little guy does(he is 6) and I have never seen him experiance any sort of paranoia, if anything the complete opposite, he honestly doesn't even notice if people are laughing directly at him even if they were blue in the face.

That describes someone who is a bit suspicious and paranoid. Schizophrenia has bizarre delusions and auditory hallucinations which are more extreme than your basic paranoia, a component of modern culture.
For instance, someone could be whispering about someone else, how can you tell? That might be a bit paranoid, thinking that, but certainly not out of the question.
Someone with schizophrenia thinks the people whispering are working for the CIA and were sent here by an alien species, which runs the government. It goes beyond mere paranoia into the very unlikely. How does the person know? His voices told him the night before or are telling him right now.



buryuntime
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24 Apr 2011, 11:25 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
buryuntime wrote:
is it possible schizophrenia is late onset autism? so that since it happens at a different time, different things are effected corresponding roughly to the time of development? I don't know.

I think they are related but really the definition of schizophrenia makes no sense to me so I can't say for certain. It's just a big category for oddballs and catatonics.

Schizophrenia might have a few things in common with autism, but not enough to be called "late onset autism" since autism doesn't feature the positive symptoms of schizophrenia. Autistics do not hear voices or have a delusional system in place and these are major components of schizophrenia.
Thought disorder also occurs with schizophrenia. Do you consider those with autism to have thought disorder?

You missed my point.

An adult or teenager would not be developing the types of cognitive skills that autism effects. Different skills mature. If autism were to occur later on it might effect different things. This is assuming autism is not defined by the things it effects but is just a general neurological problem of some sort. This is very unlikely, but it just seemed like an interesting thought.



littlelily613
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24 Apr 2011, 11:29 pm

I don't see many similarities between autism and schizophrenia. Even if there are a few similar symptoms, the reasons behind them are not the same which means the disorders are not the same.