I feel more evil when becoming more social

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I feel more evil when becoming more social. That's one of the main reasons why I find it difficult to truly want to be social. I don't want to be evil. At the same time I start to become more confident and feel better the more "evil/social" I get.


So what is it that I find evil? Basically when "serving your own self-interest" is taken as far as it has to be done to have successful social communication.

In choice of partner you should consider those "below" you in the social hierarchy as less than you - at least you have to treat them that way if you don't want to be pushed lower down in the social hierarchy yourself. It's a matter of telling the world what is "good enough" for you, and that means the people below you in the social hierarchy should not be good enough for you if you want to be mentally healthy.

In other words: in the dating scene, one should not be the "good guy" or the "good girl", because it basically is an indicator of a social handicap.


Do any of you feel the same way? Do you also think of that as being evil, or is that just "how it should be" as many would say?

I suppose it's because something is basically wrong with me (autism) that I consider this to be evil?

I think I am more 'evil' the more time I spend around people, because I think it is bad of me to impose my presence on them. I'm not sure what to do about it though, as the opposite doesn't seem to be what people expect or want, either.

I can't say whether or not what you mentioned about social hierarchy is true. It might be. I don't like the sound of that...

You're feeling guilty about something everybody does. It just feels awkward because the extra cognative work it takes for someone like us to be social requires an amount of self awareness that most people aren't used to. You must realize this: Human beings are self-centered by nature. Unless you're intentinally or recklessesly visiting harm upon someone else, I'm not sure what's so evil about it.

What you're describing is a very over-simplified form of socializing where if you do not 'shun' certain types of people you are 'shunned' from higher social circles, sort of a ladder theory for friends and dating. Unfortunately in high schools and rich country clubs there are influential people who do exactly this, but you don't have to. It is entirely possible to be social without alienating anyone, and quite frankly, if someone thinks less of you because you fail to shun a certain type of person, then I'm not sure why you'd want to curry their favor anyways.

Why do you need to either treat people as lower or higher than you? I agree that it sounds like an oversimplification.

Examples?

Yeah, I don't treat people as either lower or higher than me. I don't think that's any particular virtue on my part--it's just that socializing takes a lot of brain, and constantly remembering who's supposed to be more important than who else is too much multi-tasking. So I treat everyone about the same... meaning I'm a little too formal with friends, a little too casual with bosses and professors. But in general, if you respect people, they won't mind too much when your tone is a bit too casual for their position. My profs seem to like me. Though, I think that's mostly because they know I like learning in their classes. Some of my classmates are just there to get the degree so they can get good jobs, and don't care too much about learning.

I think that the best way to be social is to take an interest in other people. If you think about it, human beings are very interesting indeed. There is a whole universe inside their heads. They know a lifetime worth of stuff, and have had a lifetime worth of experiences. So much to learn. Your socialization can be a quest to learn about people, about what it might be like to be them. Ask them about the things they know about, so you can learn them too.

I don't think we need to be NT-style social. The really important thing is that you treat people decently. I think I would rather be thought of as eccentric, and let people see who I really am, than put on a social face that isn't really me.

I feel like this. It's like I've become the Antichrist and I'm starting my rise.

bolding by me:
I agree with Sacrip
There are some very socially stratified subsections of every society (and some micro-societies like highschool) and people in those subsections do follow that protocol of "shun this one- suck up to that one". But this isn't a necessary part of socializing and it isn't even done like that if you aren't participating in those stratified subsections. It is utterly pointless to attempt to emulate something that isn't a standard part of most people's socializing (unless you are in the elite part of society) and which will needlessly alienate people who would otherwise be perfectly happy to socialize with you.

I've always felt the opposite. I've always felt more generous, opening up to people.

I feel about the same way. I strongly dislike socializing with most people.

I try to be polite in all situations. I am not always successful, though. but I try always.

I don't feel the way you describe yourself feeling, Gawer.

I think you are too focused on this idea about self interest. Many NTs are NOT constantly looking out for number one at the expense of others, though some are.

I feel good when I am social with good people. It makes me tired, but not evil.

I'm especially talking about the dating scene, but actually also the "friend"-scene.

I've discovered that most people start to respect you a whole lot more if you turn much nastier socially instead of being the "nice guy". I cannot help but think of it as being evil.

For instance, if you consider a handsome guy and an overweight less attractive girl, the guy "should" socially indirectly 'bully' her enough to not "drop to her level" which might happen if he made himself available to her.

Similarly, if you take too much care of those who do less than average people are soon enough going to think you care so much about them because you have something in common with them, i.e. you are also doing less than average yourself. Your "value" is soon enough estimated through what people you befriend. If you befriend a handicapped person, people assume you are handicapped too, and your social status drops.

I begin to realize it might be true. The only reason why I have a problem with this and consider it evil is because of my own autism, which most people actually would think of as being very wrong and something to be strongly avoided. I "should" be weeded out unless I change and become more social/evil so as to prove I am fit enough for survival.

Survival rules out everything in the end. There is no moral, nothing, only survival. If there was a universal moral we likely would not need jails. It's beneficial to survival for people to not want to date overweight (or autistic) people, so the mentally healthy mind "should" think of those people as worth less.

Eventually the only worth a human has is how fit it is for survival. I find it evil, but I see that's what is basically wrong with me. I "should" not find it evil !

I'm so surprised to see that everyone seems to be fine about this.

I just don't like the whole survival construction and that mainly means the social construction including social status.


The ironic thing is, if I don't play along in this insane "social game" I really am going to die, and the assumption about autism being wrong will be confirmed.

Some people treat others as less than themselves, but that is not the only way to successfully socialize. An egalitarian manner and treating everyone with respect is another strategy for social success.Unless you are a handsome alpha male as in your above example, you are not going to be able to compete in the "worth more/worth less" dichotomy, anyway--as an autistic you are already "less than" so you might as well befriend a handicapped person, or date an overweight girl, whose company you find enjoyable. You will get a lot more personal happiness that way.

I think you've got this wrong: being nice to people will never decrease your social standing, unless you're being evaluated by people who are insecure and think of themselves as low value. Those people sometimes try to fake high value and bolster their self-esteem by putting other people down. I'm pretty sure that people who have high social status will _reject_ you if they see you treat certain people worse than others, because to them it's a sign that you're not trustworthy, that you're only nice to people you want something from.

Thanks for your answer.

But by that statement you are just confirming that it's true, i.e. that autistic people are worth less than if they weren't autistic.

You don't think the whole construction is evil? By doing what you said I'm just telling myself I really am worth less because of my autism.

It's difficult for me to see how it could be enjoyable to tell myself that.