Gender Identity Disorder and Asperger's Syndrnome.

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Haha, bishie here, who hopefully will remain one, and who wants to do away with gender norms and roles - so what if I want to wear a dress and makeup, and act "girly"? Sure, I'm straight, but...

Oh yeah, I also have Asparagus Soup syndrome.

you didn't refer to its use that way, you used it that way. otherwise im referring to a spoon when i eat using a spoon.

im not saying i disagree with your point or even that it perplexes me as to what it is., so i don't see why you wanted to reiterate your point.

I was essentially quoting when I used the word the first time. I wasn't sure if you understood my point because I was not trying to accuse anyone of perversion, being as I qualify in possibly more than one way, per some popular definitions.

I did not, however, use it that way. I was misread as using it that way, probably due to sloppy phrasing on my part. Can we agree that I am truthfully reporting my intentions or should we argue about what I really meant?

I have NEVER heard of a female being born with a penis. If she were, sshe certainly couldn't be "fully functional". The penis starts not much closer to the front than the farthest part of the scrotum, so it would cover the vagina. BESIDES, the scrotum is created by the same hormone that drives the penis, and apparently is formed first. BTW a male won't be fully functional without the testosterone, which does change the brain. SOME people apparenntly have a resistance to testosterone, but THEY end up looking and acting female.

ALSO, women, having less need for testosterone, often being smaller, etc... are more sensitive to it. If you had too much testosterone NOW, at least as an adult, you would have noticably darker hair on the upper lip, etc... And you COULD have it tested. 93ng/dl is HIGH for women. 299ng/dl is LOW for men. Apparently it costs about $150 for such a test.

"uncle toms" never did EITHER!

Michael Jackson never changed ethnicity, and certainly never changed race. Heck, his actions, sounds, and music, in his songs make that CLEAR! Lightening skin color does NOT do it. HECK, HE claims that whites trying to get a tan are trying to be black. That is ridiculous. They are trying to get a copper tone, as it is considered more attractive, and supposedly protects against skin cancer. In fact, one brand is called copper tone, and many instant tanning systems are ORANGE!

I believe I'm an aspie, and I have gender identity issues.

Although I don't now if I should be inclined to post in such a thread, I feel that a lot of the battering over this is over ridiculous terminology, mere rhetoric. Timeisdead is arguing that Gender is an objective value because Biological sexuality is. And because Biological sex has had almost 'certain' control over gender (more so than sociological factors have) for so long, Gender should be stay objective because it's been defined that way for so long. However it doesn't account for the fact that 'gender' had ceased to separate from the notion of sex, and should stay as such because even if we have outgrown traditional gender roles, it's not like we have altered our bodies or our perspective on terminology to conform to the rhetoric proceeding it.

So alright, let's assume that gender is absolutely confined by ones biological imperative and cannot be changed. But then how should one define gender? If we're ONLY defining it by one's biological structure, than I don't understand how outwardly things outside of it always have to come back to it.

For example, are the clothes we wear, the toys children play with, and the jobs/roles we will play out in this modern age all chosen to be assigned to that gender because they best contribute to that individuals role to reproduce? Then aren't we assigning every individual to their reproductive duties and obligations before they're even sexually identified?

Then I guess from the moment I was conceived it was decided I would be best raised and reared to have my reproductive status up firsthand in mind above anything else. So I shouldn't wear dresses or act sympathetic because that would be a legitimate threat to my reproductive credibility right? Only do the very manliest activities and behaviors that ensure the survival and propagation of our ever-dying race.

Then is every civilization before us wrong about what they thought gender was? Shame on them!
Oh wait, but with trends changing constantly, that means in another few generations we'll have to redefine it again, and again. And worst of all, that filthy incoherent 'society' is often wrong in defining 'gender', because at time's it hasn't always favored the most reproductively promiscuous choices. Shame on it again!

And WHY? Because if we don't, the species won't continue to thrive, continue to encapsulate itself through it's angry monkey-fuck power? Then should we go so far as assigning buildings, vehicles, even abstract concepts a gender based on what biological sex they best benefit for the reproduction of both sexes? REALLY ? (Ironically enough, many foreign languages have 'gendered-words', for some reason. )

Face it, gender is a means of expression, not a biological imperative. Although it can be argued you cannot help what standards you are raised to, you do have a choice in how you respond to these 'regulations.'
Not to mention it's extremely relative to the culture, which is different for every individual, and veeeeeeeery different for every race.
If you choose to define it otherwise as nothing more than what the biology dictates and strip if of all it's sociologically context, aren't you pretty much detracting the very meaning that it holds? It's like removing the color red to help specify the colors scarlet,crimson, and pink, when in actuality you're obscuring them by removing a common group they belong to. Now the 3 cannot be all related simply 'red', you have to find new quantities to compare them to complicating the problem.
If you accept the gender 'male' as objective and universal, you have to try to apply Occam razor and apply it to every race,culture, and civilization obscuring it beyond it's useful meaning. Either that or just re-define the word completely.

I think this should have been pretty obvious a long time ago.

Think about it like this. In a truly multicultural civilization, transsexualism in a society where gender conforming is the norm is kind of a different thing. Rather than being a swapped preference, it is a more exacting preference. Somewhat like a fetish for a particular gender, or rather what is perceived towards a specific gender. When someone was talks to someone who is unfamiliar about it, he/she don't even have a word for the orientation when referring to their gender. It's not something that appears to have any cultural significance to them. Which might seem odd, but then, it's something alien to that person because of the clash in cultures. Maybe a way to view it is how we view people with more exacting preferences, like certain fetishists. We don't actually have common words to describe most people like that, and their presence doesn't have nearly the same social ramifications which transsexuality does. Humans seem to make a very big deal out of homosexuality, while treating other forms of preference as barely worth noting. If someone from one culture hit on someone of the same gender of another, the reasonable human response would be to say "I am not a homosexual." But a response without the inclinations of gender would be more like "Sorry, not interested," without invoking orientation. Very much like a person with a fat fetish isn't too likely to reject a thin girl by saying "Sorry, I am just this HUGE chubby chaser, so I must decline."

So what do you suggest we do Timeisdead, create a broader concept of gender to encompass all objects, ideas, and abstractions to absolutely differentiate which of them would best fit each biological sex, all for the glorious sake of procreation? Or force transsexuals to conform to a vaguely 'objective' idea so that they get the treatment they need to fit that criteria? Should we have a board that decides that criteria for each and every country so that we get more accurate results?

And for what reason exactly, logic,duty,ethics,obligation, some universal belief in manifest destiny of our species?
You tell me.

Zzz...

I have gender issues. I'm female but I feel like I'm a man trapped in a woman's body. I feel that I was born with the wrong bits. All of the WP Rank Titles that I've had over my 7 years at WP have all been titles that you'd expect a male member to use. Some people think that I'm a bloke within the WP realm. I take it as a compliment. I also look like a certain male celebrity from a certain decade and that is all unintentional.

No. I'm for sure a tomboy, and ever since I was a baby I identified more with boys and boy interests than with girls and girl interests. Yet I've never had a problem with being female myself, just a problem with the way I'm expected to behave as a female. I don't think humans are as hardwired as most people think. I think aspies sometimes just miss some of the social steps and tend to end up liking what they want outside of any social context. It's why alot of us don't act our age either.

Female, no gender issues at all. If I try to imagine myself as a boy, it doesn't feel right. I tend to get along with girls my age better than boys my age. I get along with older men and women equally though.

I don't have a gender issue. Society does.

My sense of my gender is like my sense of whether I'm right side up or not. I usually think of myself as neutral or a boy. When straight guys try to flirt with me with crap like, "Hey sweetheart", it feels wrong and confusing...like they're blind. "Perceived cultural advantage"...like not being pursued by creepy guys who treat you like you're femme, even when you tell them you're not, and that you're not attracted to them? That behaviour makes me feel awful. I've had people TELL me that a "friend" of mine, who flirts with me like that, is very hurt that I don't like him. How about him hurting me? I have trouble figuring people out, so I let him into my life thinking he just wanted to be my friend.

I've had several male "friends" who've treated me in this way, leaving me confused and frightened. Also, straight women accusing me of being a slut when men pursue me and I don't understand. People do not believe that I can be so socially stupid as to not understand men. Here you have gender, sexism, and being on the spectrum combining to create a big mess.

I'd also like to get hired for jobs that don't require lots of social interaction, but retail employers inevitably want me to work the register and "act like a girl". I'm no good at it, and it makes me uncomfortable: is that another "perceived advantage"?

How about being able to go swimming shirtless, without wearing a feminizing bikini, but swim trunks instead? I haven't gone swimming in years because the idea of wearing such a feminine article of clothing is too embarrassing. Is that also a "perceived advantage"? Would society be scandalized by having my A cups on blatant display? Certainly, and I might get arrested!

I am short and have a delicate bone structure, so I do not look butch. My discomfort with my own body has more to do with being small and skinny than with my genitals. If I could have a more butch body that would discourage gendered pigeon-holing of me, I would be happy. If people would treat me like a nerdy, skinny guy, that would also satisfy me.

I recently started cutting my hair very short. That vastly helps in being treated the way I like. I feel more comfortable around people, but now I have all of the problems of being cross-gender in public, like which bathroom to use, or having my ID rejected as fake when I try to buy alcohol. The funny thing is, I don't have to change my clothing or my mannerisms to get taken as a boy: I just need a hair cut.

It just goes to show that the problem is not on how I perceive being male, it's on how people perceive me. That is where the disorder, the disease, or mental illness is. If I believe there are advantages to being perceived as male or as masculine, does that discredit my sense of self, or mean that men are not treated differently?

I'm a girl. I've always been a girl and I'm happy being a girl. Female is my bio gender and my mental one as well.

The whole idea of mentally being another sex doesn't make sense to me.

Even if there are mental characteristics that tend to go with one sex more than the other it is still socially conditioned that having a certain set of mental characteristics means that therefore you should have a certain type of body or vice versa.

If I had been born a woman but my brain was the same I'd still act the same way. I would be a very butch masculine woman. I would look like a guy. But I would not feel like I had to go have surgery.

It makes all too much sense to those who have to live with it. Whatever the etiology (and some evidence indicates that it probably is a neurological difference: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2 ... -scan.html ), the fact is that a measurable fraction of the population seeks out this treatment. Logically speaking, a parsimonious explanation makes more sense: That they're truthfully describing their experiences, even if others do not have a frame of reference to understand them.

I would say that it probably has nothing to do with socialized "mental characteristics" that are associated with members of any given sex. I seriously doubt anyone transitions because they want to wear the clothes or play with the toys, or they think that you have to be a girl to play with dolls or a boy to play with trucks. Your second paragraph seems to be suggesting a process that is backwards from what most trans people self report about the need to transition. I believe that the need to transition is a kind of pain or dissonance that can be resolved (partially or fully) by transition, and that the social trappings are part of the process, not the origin.

Same here. I always though other that biological innate things, what is 'Female' and what is 'Male' was a society thing.

I'm a female, and I love being a female.

I am male late 30s and one year into what is called "the real life experience" which is simply become the roll other the other sex for a while to see if you feel netter. I have both aspergers as well as GID gender identity disorder, the primary symptom is called gender dysphoria, characterized as have some sort of strong feeling of wanting or needed to be perceived by others as the opposite sex.

Parents need to be aware of the risks when letting a child play around with gender, approach the subject with caution. Childhood cross gender behavior can lead to devastation and can have rather unforeseen consequences. Boys with aspergers may need to become a female during play to understand how normal heterosexuality works? As well to understand why they like girls? I know that's why I cross dressed. As we get older it becomes more of an imaginary girl friend inside feeling like somehow we become attracted to the image we created to help us understand sex and how it worked. That's when the problems begin. his sex drive for exterior females will have to compete with the female within, and in my vase completely took over. I have not had a girlfriend in 17 years, this van happen so be aware, do you want your boy to end up with a second more serious disoder that van happen. Never promote or restrict the play, let the boy know it's okay that's key, the trouble comes when he becomes angry at himself when is older for still cross dressing, masochism is often the result he he feels bad.

My advice, do not encourage or discourage it, just make sure he knows it's okay and make sure he never feels as though he must hide it, hiding it creates worse problems. I just want parents to be aware of what can happen. Look up autogynephilia the leading behavioral cause of heterosexual transsexuals is an error, a misdirected sex drive. It looks as though its been established well established by the graph above trans gendered behavior is
common among Aspies, as a parent of a boy exhibiting such behavior research autogynephilia I admit, it is an accurate model of all males who cross dress who are also heterosexual, your son is no exception.