The 'control yourself' comments...

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Sometimes I hear "bootstraps" or "control yourself" comments from other autistic people. That's not cool dude. Not every autistic person is able to 'pull themselves up by their bootstraps' or 'control their behavior'. Adults do have violent meltdowns and it's not always caused by a trigger that they can notice. A lot of adults are nonverbal. A lot of adults headbang. A lot of adults scream uncontrollably. A lot of adults try hard for independence even if they aren't 'supposed to be able to do it'. But just for the principle you know? And these adults, should not be forced into treatment, should be left alone, should be accepted, should be supported.

Not everyone is avoidant to the point where they 'try as hard as they can' to prevent meltdowns... people who aren't 'mild Aspies' ought to be able to pursue life too. Without forced treatment, forced medication, suitable for NTs with different conditions that look similar. Without being tased, and arrested for the way they are especially young working class or men of color. We should not apologize, for the way we are and try to suck up to NTs. I know I'm not free of internalized ableism or self loathing but such is the society we live in and the first step, is recognizing it. I sometimes make ableist comments, having been conditioned by this bigoted society, and am trying to let go of that. To break free of these chains.

There used to be more of a social justice lean on this site and the anti-cure forums. Like blending some intersectionality and racial justice and gender too. But like somehow, that fire has gone out just a little bit. What happened to it, you know? I understand, that there used to be more of a pressing need for activism because of the stuff relating to chelation and DAN and other abusive techniques. But now the discourse seems to have gotten a bit more mainstream. While autistic children are still dying, the mainstream is starting to turn toward us and also more and more newer people are coming to the community. This is a good thing! But ... I don't know. What are your thoughts?

I'd like to see more activism here. I get why people advise others to keep "hidden" if they can, but it's exactly the people who are functional enough to hide that they're on the spectrum who would need (and be able to) speak up publicly to change how people think about autism.

I will have to remember the word "ableism." that single concept has been the millstone around my neck in terms of my self-esteem.

Just a thought, and I could be wrong, but I have been on sites before that are much more...ummm...."activist" and the NT-bashing was so prevalent that I could not even tolerate being there and I am pretty much immune to that kind of stuff.

I think that sometimes just congregating with people who are unlike yourself without stuff being forced down your throat leads to the greatest change. When my daughter was first diagnosed, my initial thought was "how do I get her cured" but it was a kindly group of Aspies I met online who taught me a different way to see. Had they been militant and intolerant of my innocent ignorance and thereby chasing me away, perhaps I would have never had my eyes opened? Where, then, would my daughter be?

That is not to say that I think people who cannot control something should be made to feel less because they cannot. The idea is actually absurd to me. It would be like someone telling me to "control" my nearsightedness or my inability to play professional basketball. I have a means to adapt for my nearsightedness, but there is not anything in this world that will make me a professional basketball player, no matter how hard I try.

InThisTogether, yeah definitely I hear ya on that. The NT bashing on some sites as well as making it difficult for new allies who do not know the lingo, for example not being aware that the cure discourse is discriminatory, definitely is counterproductive in a lot of ways.

Auntblabby I just got into learning about ableism and privilege actually and how pernicious it is in society. It is up there with racism and sexism but the mainstream has such a surface understanding of it, for example I am so glad to see how this site now also includes Bipolar, Schizophrenia and other states of being under neurodiversity not just ASD and LDs... but that understanding wasn't always there from what i know.

Aspendos exactly! I try to speak up whenever I can except sometimes at work when the ignorance is so thick you can cut it with a knife... But in social circles I am 100% out of the closet, those of us who have more spoons need to speak up and educate. Keeping hidden is a strategy to be used sometimes but we need to be more radical and also help each other out and stuff... Let's fight the power!

i have wondered whether the presence of so many aspies, including myself because i know i post a lot, was drowning out members who experience more classical autism. Especially those who have a hard time communicating.

if so, wondering what we could do to change that.

or if not, i would be happy to know that too.

Yeah, "control yourself" doesn't work.

Hi Opi, from one speech privileged person, to another, I would say that this is not targeted at you at all. You are not drowning out anyone by speaking up because it is a huge forum and not a zero sum game, there are many people here at varying levels of visibility. Everyone's experiences are valuable.

One problem I noticed however is that some people make 'bootstraps' type comments which most folks do not approve of. That is what I was making this post, in order to address those issues and get us to think about this deeply. Not everyone notices when they are doing this and I have unfortunately made statements based on the bootstraps mentality before, it is an ongoing process to erase those thought patterns.

Rather than one side, or the other side, it is a challenging and dialectical process because I understand that the autism parents struggle, sometimes get so depressed they act in extreme ways, NT employers struggle, police and the NT public struggle when they see a big guy raging for example and are stretched to the end of their rope, but we are all stuck in this big game of oppression and there are only so many moves, education helps to dismantle the game bit by bit even if only just a little. This forum itself is a part of dismantling the game.

I think sometimes "bootstrap" advice is actually meant to be encouraging. To make people feel motivated to go out and help themselves. And sometimes I think it is helpful to do that, because sometimes lack of motivation or fear holds us back and we need encouragement. When it becomes destructive, however, is when the observer fails to understand the difference between "won't" and "can't" or when lack of ability is seen as lack of motivation when it is really straight lack of ability. And then there are other times when people have learned their limits or their "capacity" as one of my favorite Aspies of yore used to call it, and they choose not to do it, not out of laziness or defiance, but because they know what the consequence will be.

That made me think of something my kids found on the internet that they love (I don't know how to insert a picture...sorry for the link):

http://www.someecards.com/usercards/nsv ... I2MDAwZmQx

I like bootstrap advice that tells me to go out and help myself, eggspecially if bootstrap advice comes from autistic people who have gone out and helped themselves to do what they want to do in life.

Sometimes, I get stuck in unfocused pattern in my thinking and doing, and it is verry merry berry helpful for me to read bootstrap advice that refocuses me on big picture of what I want to do in life and small picture of what I want to do this minute, hour, day, or week towards my goals.

I used to be interested in autism activism and advocacy, but I became disinterested, because none of its idears helped me to bester myself to help others, while bootstrap advice from autistic people was verry merry berry helpful.

Following on from our discussion about activism here, I've started a thread about a particular aspect that I could see myself get involved with. Please let me know what you think:

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt241907.html

Y'know what would be handy? A drug that could temporarily give people autism.

For a week or so.

Thus the punishment would be so. Someone who makes that comment would be forced to live as an autistic for a week. After that, they may be allowed to say it as much as they like. But somehow, I don't think they will anymore.