Confusion of self and other

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There is the examination of anomalous self-experience (EASE), which is a catalog of self-experiences as reported by patients on the schizophrenia spectrum. There is one interesting item I would like to discuss, which may have a surprising relevance to autism. It is the entry 4.1, "Confusion with the Other":

http://www.nordlandssykehuset.no/getfil ... r/EASE.pdf

There's another study:

http://foundationsoftheself.squarespace ... ia2013.pdf

This among other things looks at comparisons and contrasts of schizophrenia with depersonalization disorder, the practice of introspectionism--where the practitioner always deliberately monitors what is going on,--severe depression, and mania. In the latter 4, they did find striking similarities with schizophrenia (in terms of the non-psychotic experiences) in the area of the self, but also some important differences. To summarize, those experiences found specific to schizophrenia were serious confusion of self and other, confusion of self and world, and erosion, dislocation, or dissolution of first-person perspective. Now, in introspection, trivial self-other confusion was found, namely a brief confusion of one's breathing for another's, but nothing indicating whose concepts are whose getting mixed up. Nothing quite as serious as implied in the item at the top.

There was another study that looked at high-risk patients, and found that in those who did develop schizophrenia, "the distinction between concepts being self-generated or from elsewhere may be blurred prior to the onset of a diagnosis of schizophrenia." An example is given, "patient: ‘You mentioned...’; interviewer: ‘No, you were telling me about...’." This suggested that self-other confusion may be a predictor for conversion to schizophrenia.

http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/200/4/342.long

So this seems pretty specific to the schizophrenia spectrum, right? Heck, such confusion seems about borderline psychotic in and of itself, so it seems to fit well with schizophrenia, right? Well, I thought so, until I came across this from an autistic adult, quoted on the National Autistic Society (UK)'s website:



http://www.autism.org.uk/living-with-au ... tines.aspx

It about blew my mind, man! An actual case of serious confusion of self and other in an autistic person, leading to withdrawal into stimming so the person can sort stuff out! Come to think of it, I think I have a tendency to mix up things like this, too, and that may be one reason why I do like to kinda keep my distance.

What gives? Why is nothing written on it also being found in autism?

EDIT: Inserted link to study.

Last edited by beneficii on 17 Nov 2013, 12:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

When I am listening to someone else talk, I hear what they are saying and lose my own thoughts, so I take in everything they say as fact and sort it out later. I don't know if that is the same thing as confusing their thoughts with mine. I think it's more like not being able to keep two channels open at the same time or not thinking fast enough.
It seems related though. Maybe it's a matter of how someone perceives the situation.

Yes. I do have that same issue. And the issue does seem similar, and in fact the issue of losing your own thoughts because of the intrusion of other thoughts is mentioned in the EASE, though in a different area, under 2.1, "Diminished Sense of Basic Self." It seems related to the phenomenon referred to as Haltlosigkeit. That you have to go by yourself to sort things out does seem important--though perhaps I'd still want to see more on that--and suggests a similar experience in autism.

It seems even closer to, "the distinction between concepts being self-generated or from elsewhere may be blurred prior to the onset of a diagnosis of schizophrenia."

Then again, before closing a big deal with somebody we're negotiating with, don't we usually want some time away from our counterparts to talk it over with our families, think about it ourselves, etc.?