advice on teaching Calculus to my son

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I am having real difficulty dealing with a strange situation. Here's some background, and I'm hoping some of you have an idea of how to improve the situation.

My DS is currently 17 and in his senior year of high school.

He has historically done very well at math. In his sophomore year, he was taking academic Algebra 2, and easily received an A in the class partially because he is skilled and partially because he had a superb teacher who made everything very visual. This guy just really knew how to teach math.

We thought that our son was able to move up a level, so we asked him what he thought, and yes, he liked the idea of moving to Honors pre-caclulus in his junior year. He did so, and had a fairly good male teacher, and got a B. He did struggle somewhat, but he liked the challenge and did not struggle immensely.

DS has a bad case of inattentive ADD. Meds worked in sophomore year, but the same meds did NOT work in junior year. He slogged through and managed to keep a cumulative 3.5. Senior year begins, and things go downhill rapidly as far as the ADD. He has a young, inexperienced and not gifted honors calculus teacher who is just not teaching. DH has always "tutored" our kids in math, and although it is painful because he's one of those guys who just "gets" math and doesn't understand those who don't -- our other two kids had high self-esteem and managed to do quite well even with a difficult father.

Now, on top of everything else, my son just had his second epileptic seizure. Things are harder than ever, and repetition of EVERYTHING is necessary. My husband is trying to be patient, but he is not a patient soul. My son's cognitive skills are cloudier than ever, especially with calculus. But he doesn't want to drop the class because he has friends in this class. Rather than drop it, he has been allowed to audit the class. Auditing purely means he doesn't get a grade -- but he is expected to do everything as if he does get a grade.

I will admit, I am a wreck watching all of this go on. My husband is honestly a pretty good guy, but he just expects my son to "get" this stuff. My son doesn't want to quit because he has friends in the class, but he's just not picking up on the concepts. It takes HOURS upon HOURS to do the homework. My son has no life outside of school because all of his time is spent on homework -- and my guess is that this is partially due to cognitive slow down after a seizure. I can't stand the tension in the house, and I can't stand watching my son never have a positive moment. He, on the other hand, seems to be taking it all in his stride, as he is an extremely positive individual. I know my husband is doing his best, but frankly, I'd like to smack him for not being patient.

So, my question is, have you ever had calculus be particularly difficult, but you still wanted to take the class? Did you ever find a book/different way to study that was more visual? Or a way that just made more sense to you? My son currently uses Khan Academy videos, and that helps to a point. I'm just at my wits end trying to get back to some semblance of happiness in our family.

I seriously hate math, but my husband loves it and is great at it. What I would tell you to do is get your son a tutor instead of having your husband help him. Also, since he's just auditing the class, he can miss some homework and get some incompletes and it not hurt him, especially since he's got this seizure thing going on right now, so I'd suggest making asking about how the calculus is going off limits for now. Let him do what he wants about it gradewise and don't push him. Don't let your husband bug him about it either, and if he's into math he might be curious about how his son is doing in it. Tell him the doctor said to reduce stress or something and that it's obvious he's stressing the kid out so no more math talk at home.

What are they working on in Calculus?

I second the removing stress, and backing off. I'd add a minimum amount of non-calculus time actually in this situation probably.

But, I'm actually someone who's teaching calculus one-on-one currently and am working on specializing on tutoring autistic students so might have advice on the calculus side of stuff (if I don't get overloaded working on lesson planning)

Calculus is nothing like the popular myth view of maths believed by folks who have never done it.

if you are good at maths that consists of a clear certain routine method to follow to do a calculation, you may be bad at calculus, especially at integrals. There are several different methods for trying to do it, they can't all be done in every case, sometimes none will work at all, not every algebraic expression can have calculus done on it and it take digging in the compelxity to try to tell.

To answer a question on more than the simplest expression, you have to juggle around the algebra or trig searching for patterns to recognise, that means a particular method can be used without making the tangle of algebra so bad that you lose it. It may not even be 1 method you can use, it may be a combination of 2 at different steps, 1 method to get from the question to an intermediate piece of algebra that forms a sort of pattern that means another method will get from there to an answer.

This is why calculus has such a hard reputation. It calls on strengths of arty feel for patterns and puzzle solving, skills I have never had, nor expected ever to need in maths when they all took for granted I would sail through it at a "gifted" early age and I did not.

If you can afford it, a tutor would be best. A high achieving senior student is often looking for some extra $$. Perhaps another math teacher may know of someone suitable.

Good luck.

denny

I've often thought that not enough effort is made to show the students why calculus is so important. I think that many students could do better if they were exposed to real world examples showing why it is so useful.

I really admire your son's persistence. Spending so much time, working so hard to stay in that class--that's just awesome. I hope you've told him how much you admire that sort of effort.

I don't think he's lost his ability to do the work. You say he's always been good at math, and he hasn't lost any of the lower-level skills he's been using. But the seizure seems to have caused some problems. Things take longer now and he has more problems with attention.

First of all, talk to the doctor who helps him manage his ADHD. Adjustments to meds, external support, coaching, etc., could be needed.

Working that hard leads to mental exhaustion and probably keeps him from learning as efficiently as he otherwise might. Is there a way you can slow down the class for him? Let's say--he audits it this year, then re-takes it in his senior year. You focus on learning the basic skills, and don't bother with the more advanced ones. Essentially, that gives him double the time the others are getting, and he can relax a little. It does mean that he will be sitting in on a class that's working on more advanced material, but that will still give him some familiarity with the ideas ahead of time, so that when he takes it for credit he'll have the basics down.

Many autistics work themselves too hard, causing burnout. For me, usually that comes in the form of episodes of major depression, which I'm prone to. Some lose skills or withdraw socially. You've probably seen your son's tendencies when he becomes exhausted, and it's very unlikely that it's beneficial to his learning.

You might need to talk to him, teach him how to stop before he's exhausted, teach him that it's okay to take breaks. Push yourself too hard, too long, and you'll become less able to do what you normally do--that's as true for autistics as for anyone else. Maybe more so.

First, does he intend to study a major in college where math is important? If not, then maybe calculus in high school isn't the best thing for him. He may or may not need to take it in college, but even if he does, he will be older and hopefully more ready for it.

Also, calculus can be visual, but like most higher math, only if you have enough of a mental "perspective" to see that. And even then, the algebra will be hard. I was at the other end of the spectrum--I studied a little bit of calculus already in 8th grade on my own, then took differential and integral calculus in my freshman and sophomore years of high school. When I was a senior, I met this freshman guy (possibly also on the spectrum) who had gotten to multivariable calculus by 8th grade!

But yes, the more advanced math is, the more there are certain people for whom it "clicks" and others for whom it doesn't. Maybe not as much for NTs, who may all need to study and work really hard. But for those on the autism spectrum, many of whom are used to being able to visualize or grasp certain advanced concepts in an "intuitive" manner, some can do that with calculus and some not.

It sounds like your son is primarily a visual thinker. I'm primarily a story and narrative thinker and can do well at math if I have the time and life circumstances to translate to my preferred method of thinking. I sometimes like to pick up a used textbook at Half Price books. It's almost like the cheaper the better. With a low investment, I'm more able to keep it casual and low-key.

Maybe you could convince your husband to way back off? That his job is to just lay it out there, present the material, and your son has to learn at his own pace. I mean, how else can he do it. And for a parent tutoring, really thirty minutes might be about tops.

The part with the seizure, that's disconcerting, especially with things being cloudier for your son. I know with concussion they recommend both physical and mental rest. The part about mental rest surprised me. You probably also want to avoid abrupt changes in medication.

And really, I think your son can probably ride the audit for a while. Even though they say he has to do the same work, probably if he does some of the work. And if worse comes to worse, he has his friends and he can say, Hey, just lay it on me. And he doesn't have to understand it the first time.

Thank you to everyone who replied -- as is typical on here, your insights are incredibly helpful. I really felt like I had nowhere else to go but to talk with you.

Oddly enough, today my son did his homework in a very timely manner, and his process was to a) watch Khan academy for the specific calculus problems he was working on, and b) use slader.org to find the problems that had been worked on the site (from his book), and use them as templates for the problems he had as homework. He got them all correct, and Dad wasn't involved at all.

Dad obviously thought about things today, and decided that from now on he would just show DS how to do the problems flat out, without trying to teach him anything. Just do the problems. No emotion, no stress, etc. I thought that was a good plan.

This is kind of the issue -- that even before the seizure, his performance has been scattered -- either perfectly fine and successful with his calculus work, or like it was pulling teeth to get the work done and absolutely nothing was getting through to him. Incredibly frustrating, both for his parents AND especially for him.

As for what he wants to go into -- he is leaning towards Geology/Environmental studies. He may not need calculus for either of those, BUT, if he wanted to go to grad school, it may come up again… but as was pointed out, he'll be older and more mature then, and the teacher in college will hopefully be infinitely better than the calculus teacher in high school.

Thanks for your help, guys!! !

I understand that how well a student does in calculus depends mainly on how familiar he has become with the mathematics preceding calculus. Unless the student has made algebra, geometry, and trigonometry "second nature"--not just received good grades in them--he probably will have difficulty. The young man may have jumped ahead prematurely and been hit with a cognitive downturn at about the same time through a temporary worsening of the autistic process.

Also, having made friends in calculus class and trying to keep them is not a good reason to continue to live the same mistake, especially when it is time-consuming, laborious, and drains his self-esteem.
I would advise him to "punt" on medical reasons, and bone up on math he is comfortable with. Cut your losses.

I really had my probs with calculus, because of our teacher (from my opinion) started in the middle of it, by showing us the typical formulas, and then starting to varify with them. So nothing of that made sense, and I had to do it all out of the head, without any understanding of it, which would have allow me to simplify it and do it out of logic, instead of stupidly learning what weird stuff without any sense I should do in this or that variation.

I am a total visual person, and most of math before you could do in visual ways and so it always was logic for me. While calculus was about an theoretical formula without any sense, that our teacher simply smacked upon our heads, and then varifying that senseless formulas out of senseless reasons to acchieve other senseless stuff. So because of him never teaching us the true concept behind the formulas (= WHAT DO THEY MEAN, HOW DID WE RECEIVE THAT FORMULAS?) it was simply some theoretical s**t without any sense.

Until a wonderful mathbook started exactly at the beginning, by the origin of the formulas, by simply explaining it on the example of an area with three streight borders and one upper border that ended along a curved river. That the basic formulas descirbed nothing else, then simply creating lots of vertical stripes, ending at the riverborder, for whose calculation simply the middle lenght of the stripe was taken. So the before oh so mystic variables of the basic formula simply represented the thickness and amounts of stripes, the middle length of them and so on. And suddenly all the s**t made sense and instead of an horrible crap I needed to learn out of the head, all the varifying and so on suddenly become logic, instead of a tons of varified formulas I repeated stupidly out of the head.

Our mathteacher simply was a total theoretical person. For him, taking a graph out of nothing and deciding to do some weird stuff with it, without any explanation what should be the sense of that doing, totally made sense out of mathemical noisyness. While for me that was shitpuking. While as an engineer things like measuring areas and units, confronting curves, that you need to get into formulas, or calculating the average energy need of a machine, that has different energy needs due to outern circumstances, that you can get into an statistic, that can be turned into a graph again, made totally made sense, AND because of it suddenly being something visual, as well became logic.

I agree, that you should try to find another tutor for your kid, then his father. If he didnt manage to make it logic to your son until now, then they simply have a different understanding of it, so I dont see much sense. I could have listened endless to my math teacher and his theoretical graph-voodoo-stuff, but would never had got the clue, about what he is talking about in the end beside some weird theoretical mathteacher stuff. ^^ Your son has his own way to understand and approach math, and if you want him to understand calculus, then you will need to find on accident a tutor for him, that is able to teach it in a way, that fits to the understanding of your son.

Schneekugel, pray tell, what is this magical matchbook? Because THAT sounds truly helpful. If you can give me the faintest memory of the title or the author, I may be able to take it from there and find the thing…

The one good thing out of this whole mess is talking to my son and telling him that he needs to tell his father straight up that Dad isn't helping, that the way Dad knows math and the way DS knows math are two different things. I think DS is finally to the point where he can do this -- and if he can do this, he's that much further on the road to self-advocating with professors and other authority figures in college…

(And seriously, Dad is a good guy -- he's just freakishly good at math and at the same freakishly bad at teaching math to those who don't get it quickly like he does…)

I did geology at university and it required calculus. If he's going in the US, he will have to do one year of calculus for science and engineering. Env. studies might be a softer option...but why go for the softer option? If he does any kind of engineering work with his geology degree (and let's face it, he probably will) it doesn't just require calc but differential equations.

I had trouble with calculus in high school and at uni. You know why? Because it required memorisation. Ughhh. Not all the time, but some of the time. I was great with math up until that point...because I could just 'figure it out'. Not so with some of the calculus...esp when incorporating elements of trig. I was smart, but lazy. Thank goodness some of it was figure-out-able or I would have failed completely.

I also developed a hatred for algebra for a while because my parents used the 'misery' approach for making me do homework. I don't know what the answer is, but forcing people to do stuff 'their way' is a recipe for disaster.

I expect that he will do calculus in college, whether it's required for geology or not. The "softer option" as you put it is a choice to remain in a science without having it be totally overwhelmed. My husband's an engineer, my daughter is currently getting her engineering master's… so I know how incredibly demanding ANY engineering program is. I don't think my son is up to doing an engineering degree quickly. He just couldn't handle it, because of the inattentive add and now the epilepsy. Having a "softer option" basically buys my son some time -- to give him time to mature, time to get adjusted to the epilepsy, time to adjust to meds and possibly find meds that work OR figure out a diet that will help both the epilepsy and the add. My son has a lot of adjusting to do, and has been hit with a lot of hard knocks in a very short amount of time. Two years ago, I would have said he could pull off an engineering program -- things were THAT DIFFERENT then. Now, I don't think we dare put that much pressure on him.

Our hope is that DS can take the "softer option" but slowly beef it up with more technical courses whenever he can -- if that's what he wants to do. I'm purely motivated for my son to find the type of people he feels comfortable with -- whether it's in environmental studies, engineering, or geology. If he is able and wants to go to grad school, that's his choice. Right now, I'd just be happy if he could actually go to college. Right now, the way the meds are affecting him, I don't see that as a possibility. Hopefully, things will improve in the next few months.

The mathbook was from a german mathbook series about basic mathematic. (With basic it means everything that is teached in school, but not stuff from university.) I dont know about what "environmental studyings" involves in the US, but I am engineer for environmental development. So there is a lot of s"soft"-non formula related knowledge about ecology, interacting of different scienties and similar stuff, But you have as well stuff, when you will need mathematical skills. As example environmental developments involves for me being able to calculate average waterflow in an area, by using statistical rain- and flowdata for the calculation of riverbuilding, rainwatersewers, ... Just as calculation of river-"flowforces" that are needed by building engineers for the building of bridge-foundations, waterdams, ... So you might not need it as much as for electronic/machinegear building, but totally escaping it, does not seem reasonable to me.