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Xenu
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17 May 2012, 10:10 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonverbal_ ... g_disorder
So I just heard about this and was shocked at how much more this seems to fit me then Aspergers does. I mean I've always considered my Aspergers much more mild then others, but it was prominent enough for it to be obvious that it wasn't just a misdiagnosis because I was awkward or nerdy. But seeing this kind of makes me wonder if I have this instead of Aspergers as it's basically an "Aspergers-lite". Has anybody else heard of this?



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17 May 2012, 10:20 pm

I have both NVLD and AS. I consider NVLD to be "AS lite" with visual-spatial problems. Not all people with AS have NVLD, and not all people with NVLD have AS. But I think they are too similar to not be connected in some way. Personally, I think that what I have is AS with a learning disorder, and that AS in general is a form of NVLD. I'm a believer that NVLD should be a more general diagnosis (not having its definition being VIQ vs. PIQ IQ scores) and should be in the DSM-V.


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17 May 2012, 10:28 pm

I've considered NLD as well; it describes my social/non-verbal communication difficulties well (having a hard time responding appropriately to non-verbal communication, etc...), and covers some of my other difficulties (trouble with math, clumsiness, anxiety, fear of failure). That said, I stim and have special interests. All very fascinating stuff, though.



1000Knives
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17 May 2012, 11:04 pm

I got it. My official IQ split is like 130/80, for verbal/nonverbal. I sorta just say I have AS just for diagnostic purposes, but I honestly don't believe they're really the same thing. At least from my experience on this board. Overall, I'm not happy that NVLD isn't being researched more, NVLD is a much more useful diagnostic tool, as it shows the actual cause of the problem, whereas AS is just a catchall mystery diagnosis based upon someone saying "Gee, you're kinda weird."



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18 May 2012, 10:23 am

I'm not NVLD. While my VIQ is high than my PIQ, it's only by a small amount, and they are both well above average. However, there is a large split between the two subscores in each of the subscores, so I'm not like anti-NVLD, I just have strong visual spatial skills.


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OddDuckNash99
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18 May 2012, 11:57 am

Ganondox wrote:
While my VIQ is high than my PIQ, it's only by a small amount, and they are both well above average.

My PIQ is in the high-average range and I have NVLD. It's the discrepancy between PIQ and VIQ that matters. No matter how high or low a person's IQ, there should not be more than a 10-point difference between PIQ and VIQ.


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Last edited by OddDuckNash99 on 18 May 2012, 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tuttle
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18 May 2012, 12:05 pm

Are you trying to claim that people who are currently diagnosed with Asperger's who don't have a 10+ point difference between VIQ and PIQ (or for whom PIQ is higher), have NVLD?

Sure, for some people NVLD is highly connected to their autistic traits. Not all of us have a large difference between VIQ and PIQ.



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18 May 2012, 12:35 pm

Tuttle wrote:
Are you trying to claim that people who are currently diagnosed with Asperger's who don't have a 10+ point difference between VIQ and PIQ (or for whom PIQ is higher), have NVLD?

Not at all. By definition, to meet requirement for NVLD, you must have a 15-point (or greater) difference between VIQ and PIQ. What I am saying is that I feel many cases of Asperger's are a FORM of NVLD without having the actual visual-spatial learning disability. I see some AS individuals who seem more autistic, some who better fit the current NVLD criteria without having the VIQ/PIQ difference, and some (like myself) who better fit the current NVLD criteria AND have the large VIQ/PIQ difference.


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18 May 2012, 1:11 pm

OddDuckNash99 wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
While my VIQ is high than my PIQ, it's only by a small amount, and they are both well above average.

My PIQ is in the high-average range and I have NVLD. It's the discrepancy between PIQ and VIQ that matters. No matter how high or low a person's IQ, there should not be more than a 10-point difference between PIQ and VIQ.


I'm not sure if the difference is more or less than 10, but my PIQ isn't in the average range, it's in the superior range.


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XFilesGeek
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19 May 2012, 2:00 pm

Erm....

According to Rourke, the defining criteria for NVLD isn't VRI > PRI. In fact, sometimes a person with NVLD will have a PRI that's higher than their VRI because the arithmetic and comprehension sub-scores will pull the VRI down.

NVLD is more about analyzing the sub-scores, not just looking at a VRI/PRI difference. Personally, going strictly by the criteria, I could qualify for a visual-spatial learning disability, but I'm not so sure I'd qualify for the full-blown NVLD DX because my reading comprehension sub-score was my second highest score.

That said, I lean more towards the NVLD side of AS than the "autistic" side of AS, but I got Asperger's on my record because I stim and have special interests.

In case anyone was wondering.......

Me:

VRI: 141

PRI: 89


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19 May 2012, 2:35 pm

OddDuckNash99 wrote:
I have both NVLD and AS. I consider NVLD to be "AS lite" with visual-spatial problems. Not all people with AS have NVLD, and not all people with NVLD have AS. But I think they are too similar to not be connected in some way. Personally, I think that what I have is AS with a learning disorder, and that AS in general is a form of NVLD. I'm a believer that NVLD should be a more general diagnosis (not having its definition being VIQ vs. PIQ IQ scores) and should be in the DSM-V.


I agree. I have a diagnosis of AS, but I also fit most NVLD criteria (the only one that I don't fit from an onlien chcklist is reading being better than math, and I'm blind so my visual-spaital problems may be due to that). I do have a likely much higher VIQ than PIQ. By the way I thought ther eis an NVLD support/discussion thread somewhere on WP, but it's not stickied I guess.



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19 May 2012, 2:58 pm

I think that the AS population is a mix of people with autism, people with NVLD, people with ADHD, and others. I don't think that the mixing of people with different issues under one diagnosis based on stereotypes of AS is helping people get the different help that they need.

I think that ASD should be in the DSM-V as it is, and that NVLD should become an official diagnosis.

I have no idear what is going on with ASD vs. ADHD diagnoses, and what is the relationship between ASD and ADHD. I have ASD, and I don't have significant traits of ADHD.

But there seem to be a lot of people with significant traits from multiple categories, so I guess that they should be diagnosed with multiple disorders, but maybe some of these people don't have numerous or frequent or severe enough traits to be diagnosed with any of the multiple disorders from which they have traits that are impairing for them to be evaluated for any disorder.



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19 May 2012, 11:17 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
NVLD is more about analyzing the sub-scores, not just looking at a VRI/PRI difference.

True, but honestly, you don't tend to get a huge VIQ/PIQ difference unless the four subtest scores are varied. And some subtests aren't really even classic "verbal" or "visual-spatial" tasks. Like working memory and arithmetic being factored into the VIQ and processing speed being factored into the PIQ. A 15-point-or-higher difference between VIQ and PIQ isn't all that's needed for an NVLD diagnosis, but if there is that vast of a discrepancy, chances are that NVLD is worth looking at.


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20 May 2012, 9:31 am

OddDuckNash99 wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
NVLD is more about analyzing the sub-scores, not just looking at a VRI/PRI difference.

True, but honestly, you don't tend to get a huge VIQ/PIQ difference unless the four subtest scores are varied. And some subtests aren't really even classic "verbal" or "visual-spatial" tasks. Like working memory and arithmetic being factored into the VIQ and processing speed being factored into the PIQ. A 15-point-or-higher difference between VIQ and PIQ isn't all that's needed for an NVLD diagnosis, but if there is that vast of a discrepancy, chances are that NVLD is worth looking at.


Agreed, and thank you for pointing that out about the tasks not being "classic" visual or verbal tasks.

I meet most of the criteria for NVLD with the exception that I have great reading comprehension and poor auditory memory.

I wish they'd study it more. I'm curious if it could account for why certain people like me are more or less successful at navigating the daily demands of life while so many other "autistics" aren't.


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20 May 2012, 10:20 am

OddDuckNash99 wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
NVLD is more about analyzing the sub-scores, not just looking at a VRI/PRI difference.

True, but honestly, you don't tend to get a huge VIQ/PIQ difference unless the four subtest scores are varied. And some subtests aren't really even classic "verbal" or "visual-spatial" tasks. Like working memory and arithmetic being factored into the VIQ and processing speed being factored into the PIQ. A 15-point-or-higher difference between VIQ and PIQ isn't all that's needed for an NVLD diagnosis, but if there is that vast of a discrepancy, chances are that NVLD is worth looking at.


My strongest aspects are fluid intelligence, deductive reasoning, and mathematics, both my verbal and spacial skills are strong, my reading comprehension is above average, and my worst aspects are working memory and processing speed. How does that factor?


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OddDuckNash99
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20 May 2012, 4:55 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
Agreed, and thank you for pointing that out about the tasks not being "classic" visual or verbal tasks. I meet most of the criteria for NVLD with the exception that I have great reading comprehension and poor auditory memory.

I'm the same- I have great reading comprehension and poor auditory memory in some regards (depends on what I'm asked to remember or HOW much to remember). It seems from the Aspies with NVLD who I know (myself included), we have all of the classic NVLD presentation other than the fact that we tend to be very skilled in reading comprehension and visual memory. I'm thinking this may be evidence that we DO have both conditions?

As for a lot of IQ tasks not being classic verbal or spatial tasks, I tend to feel that my NVLD is shown best not by my VIQ/PIQ difference but by my Vocabulary subscore vs. my Perceptual Organization subscore. While, my VIQ is 17 points greater than my PIQ, my Vocab score is 35 points greater than my Perceptual Organization score. My VIQ really should be higher, because I suck at the arithmetic portion and Digit Span. And my PIQ is only in the high average range because of my very high score on Symbol Coding/Processing Speed and the fact that Matrices aren't timed.

Quote:
both my verbal and spacial skills are strong, my reading comprehension is above average, and my worst aspects are working memory and processing speed. How does that factor?

If you have very good visual-spatial skills, it isn't likely that you have classic NVLD. Lots of Aspies without NVLD have trouble with working memory and processing speed. But if you excel at tasks like Block Design and rotating 3D objects in your head, things that people like myself have great trouble with, it's probably not NVLD.


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