Poor ToM is Inaccurate

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There's no way to naturally have a "theory of mind" about minds that operate radically differently from one's own mind. If NTs have such great theory of mind, why do they always make false assumptions about what I am thinking, why do expect me to have emotions that I don't have, why do they so often seem shocked and confused when I begin to reveal my personality? They can't have an accurate theory of mind about me anymore than I can have an accurate theory of mind about them because our minds are too different.

Whoever came up with the idea of poor theory of mind clearly had a poor theory of mind.

I can't figure out anyone's motives. At least NTs can do that most of the time.

It's not that they know what you're thinking, but that they think about what you are thinking.
they attribute mental states to you, whether correct or not.

<--- Never understood the ToM concept. As long as he lives he'll probably never get it.

It's been suggested that NTs and aspies have better ToM toward people of their own group (NTs with NTs, aspies with aspies) because their minds work more similarly to one another's than the minds of those with opposite neurologys, meaning that we may only be perceived as having poor ToM because there are so few of us in comparison to the NTs, so their version of "normal" prevails. What if however, it turns out we are as bad at theory of mind as each other?

Hi all. I'm a NT mom of a 7 yr old daughter. I also believe my husband (her father whom commited suicide in 2011) was undiagnosed his whole life as him and my daughter are ao much alike it sometimes feels as though he's flee aching out from the grave to tell me how mean I am and how much I just want to ruin his fun and rule his life and how much he hates me whe she says it (a bit of sarcastic humour about my very tragic relationship with my one and only true love). But, I wanted to step into this convo and just say that, we NTs often don't realize how what we are saying translates to an Aspie. Sometimes, I lie in my bed aince my daughters are asleep (we had two together the 7 yr old I mentioned and my 5 year old whom may or may not be a NT as well the jury is still out on that one) and no matter how hard I try, I just start crying uncontrollably because, I feel the same failure as a mother that I did as a wife.

It's not that I want to fix my daughter or force her to be "normal". In my personal experience, there's really no such thing as normal anyway. Even seemingly "normal" ppl aren't truly normal. I also don't view my daughter as "less than" anything. In fact, she's more intelligent than most adults I know and I love the fact that she keeps it real no matter where we are or who's listening. I've always been an advocate for honesty no matter how brutal and so these are qualities I admire about her. But, I am always finding myself wanting to understand as best I can, how she feels. Or at the very least, to be able to even scratch the surface as to how she feels. Of course, I always find myself understanding her behavior or reactions to certain things less the more I research and read.

Now that you have a bit of my background... I wanted to address your post. I think too often, because we NTs are so absolutely oblivious to how or why an Aspie came to the conclusion they did from our comments and/or actions. So when we assume that we get why y'all do drafty what you do. We definitely take for granite the day to day ability to understand what you Aspie's must be feeling from one minute to the next for sure. However, If I were to tell you that depending on the circumstances, I might have a theory from a medical (not mental health stance on why my daughter is feeling each emotion or situation she is. That by no means constitutes my thinking that I can understand how an Aspie's mind works.

I do want to say that being a member of this site and the forums contained within it, has helped me to realize I know nothing about how my daughter is feeling. But, it's given me insight That I might never have had before. So that's my two cents for whatever it's worth. Thank you to all Aspie's that are willing to let us NTs see even a tiny frame of your life movie. You are all so brave to get on her and post what it's like to be you. We may never get it or be able to have any knowledge as to how or why your feeling what you're feeling.

In my opinion the theory of mind is a nonscence theory that was hastely created using underdeveloped reserch to fill in unanswered questions. There's a reason that its title is only theory.

I have been looking into the whole social intelligence, emotional intelligence deal. im finding out in my own way that nt's, and aspies are not likely to read one another very well. this is only my thoughts, but on one hand you have an nt, wich alot of the time is a social deviant, manipulative, intrusive (sorry, best words I can come up with). cannot get past that thought to see what is really going on (again, sorry, but that way of thinking doesn't make sence to me, i think some of it is mean). to most people, it is somekind of social skill, and very well may raise your level of social intelligence (if there really is such a thing. I have seen the theory, it looks like a dart board). on the other hand, you have an aspie, who can be more direct, most of the time doesn't care how you feel, just soo long as it is right (makes an nt very mad, they think it is mean), does not make eye contact, and, or is socially akward, and may look visually lazy, which paints a different picture for a naturally manipulative, intrusive, deviant (especially when they do not understand autism). than you have the emotional intelligence deal. aspie emotions can be a rather conflicting neurological mess. not easy for an nt to read at all. they are too one sided, and their feelings, and emotions don't get mixed up. emotional intelligence can also be made up, or not genuine (fake), like a coping skill. happens all the time. makes a person hard to read for an aspie. they just get mad, and feel abused because it is a lie. genuine, honest, and positive people are not hard for anyone to read. if you don't understand, they will tell you all about it. now I'm wondering if I overstepped my boundares, or am really really wrong. guess I will find out.

Agree, much easier to understand and communicate with someone who thinks in similar ways. Not impossible otherwise, but exhausting.

I don't have very good ToM with my friend who has AS, even though I have AS too. It's mostly because I don't try very hard. It's never been much of an issue though. I've spent enough of my life being socially isolated from other people that I don't relate to them in the same way. My mind is worlds apart from the minds of others. I'm still alone in my own thoughts to a large degree, no matter how much I interact with other people.

theory of mind is axactly what it states. it's a theory. there is really nothing factual about it, for there is no scientific value for thinking, and awareness. for those reasons, in theory there is no real scientific value for psychology either. people just know things are different, and can be the same... for some. people realize that reality exists for them, and can be interprited socially with one another in some way, and stuff... and other stuff. if you know you are different than other people ToM might make more sence to you than you realize.