Is this Social Phobia, Shyness, or something else?

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So, my oldest daughter who is in college has been home for the past several weeks for winter break. Prior to the break, she had purchased a CD of religious music that is sung by our cantor, a young woman who has a beautiful voice. During her visit home, she wanted to attend religious services, so she could hear our cantor sing in person. So, during the past 3 weeks, we attended services.

I noticed several things during our recent visit:

#1 – When I entered the sanctuary, I looked for seats. I was trying to not look at anyone. I didn’t want to recognize anyone. And, I hoped that no one recognized me. I actually prefer it that way. That way I don’t have to feel obligated to talk to people that I barely know. I did recognize one guy who I was on a committee with several years back. I wasn’t certain what I was supposed to do. Was I supposed to waive to him? Was I supposed to smile and nod my head? Was I supposed to walk over and say hello? So, I didn’t know this guy very well. While we were on the committee together, we might have said 1 or 2 sentences to each other. I never know what to talk to people about. And, I wasn’t 100% certain I knew his name. I ended up avoiding looking his way. Problem solved (as I didn’t need to think about what I should do).

#2 – After we sat down, some close friends of my parents walked by. They sat down two rows in front of us. I noticed my body temperature rise. I think I was feeling flush, as I didn’t know what to do. Was I supposed to go up and say "hi"? Was I supposed to waive to them? I was getting hotter and my thought was, “why is this happening”. Eventually, one of them turned and saw us and waived. After that, I no longer felt flush.

#3 – During the service, the clergy spoke about the importance of community. How it was important to become interconnected with others. And, how it’s important for people to meet others.

They then asked people to introduce themselves to others nearby. Apparently, you are supposed to turn to the people in front of you, on your left, on your right or behind you. It made me feel very uncomfortable. I hate doing this stuff. I am glad I was not alone (as my daughter was with me).

Fortunately, there was no one to the right of us. And only kids to the left. So, I just sat there and stared forward. My daughter says, “this is awkward”. I asked why. She said something about two introverts sitting together and not engaging in the process. She said that we were being anti-social. I just waited patiently for that moment to expire.

#4 – During the service, one of the clergy began to get choked up, when he spoke about the need to say prayers for the people who are sick or the people who have recently passed. I think his voice may have cracked and he was wiping his eyes. It’s bizarre. My first thought was whether he was faking it. I think this is consistent with my tendency to doubt everything. Eventually, I figured that my doubts were unlikely. In any event, I didn’t feel anything (say, in terms of compassion) as the clergy was choking up. I thought it was odd that I didn’t feel anything. Probably, I am a bad person. Or just strange.

#5 – Following the service, they serve refreshments. I had no interest in standing around following the service. I feel really awkward going up to people I don’t know and saying something random. I dislike starting conversations without a purpose. I just don’t know what to talk about. Now, there are situations where I could go up to someone I don’t know (say I needed information and needed to ask a question). But, in that case, there is purpose in the conversation.

So, I am curious. Are these signs of Social Phobia/Anxiety? Shyness? Extreme Introversion? Or something else? While I was diagnosed recently, I am thinking there is something else darker going on. Not certain what though.

As a note, we are planning on going back next week. Hopefully, my wife will attend. Then, I can just stand next to her (so she can do the social stuff).

I don't know to be honest and I wouldn't like to say.

I sense that you feel anxious about initially breaking the ice with people. I think it's the not knowing what to say that is the problem.

If the truth be known, nobody would expect anything too spectacular from you anyway. Just the acknowledgment of a hello would probably suffice and quick greeting.

I'm no expert though, I'm only trying to relate what you are saying to the way I feel myself.

Nothing particularly dark (and All of the Above). It's just the brain being overwhelmed by all the sensory stimuli of being surrounded by other humans and their activity and all the nonverbal signals they pass between each other, and unable to take it all in at once and know how to respond appropriately. I feel that way to one extent or another every time I leave the house.

So I have anxiety (pretty much constantly), and Social Phobia (who wants to socialize when you can't process fast enough to know what you're supposed to do or say next?), Introversion (I'd rather avoid interaction with people because it's very stressful and makes me feel mentally exhausted and utterly inept). Shyness? Not so much that, I kind of outgrew that over the years, I'm not shy if I feel fairly comfortable and have something to say, which isn't very often. More 'disdainfully aloof' these days.

For a while after diagnosis, especially, I think for adults, it becomes a surreal sensation - not because you've never experienced it before, if you're autistic you've been dealing with this all your life - but knowing what's causing it can make you hyper-aware of it. It isn't happening any more than it ever did, it's just that now you can't help but consciously notice it and that makes the whole moment a very intense experience.

I love that, I shall remember it always

babybird - Thanks for the response. I probably do have some anxiety about starting conversation (as I don't know what to say). What's interesting, is that I have no issues "breaking the ice" with people, when it has a purpose (e.g. I need to get information, or share information, or whatever).

Yeah, I get you totally.

I mean, just what the hell are you supposed to talk about to people who you don't know anyway? Unless you have very little self awareness or you are just totally self absorbed, I think that this is not really a problem.

You need to at least know a couple of things about people first, in order to strike up a conversation surely.

I call it being socially clueless.
In that situation I would just smile if someone who knew me spotted me. Otherwise I would just sit there and not initiate anything. If they wanted to talk to me, I'm fine with that, but they would have to initiate it and it would get awkward quickly and we would part ways leaving me feeling I did my congenial best to be social.

I had to walk a mile with someone from work the other evening.

The people who I work with know nothing about me, but because they never stop talking about themselves, I know an awful lot about them.

The way I dealt with the awkward moment was to remember the things I knew about her and just talked about that.

I reckon I got away with it.

There might be a little bit of social anhedonia (lack of pleasure in socializing) thrown in, though that's hard to measure in the presence of co-occurring social anxiety (which does seem present in your post). If you're concerned about it, I'd bring it up with the mental health professionals you see, because I'm honestly not sure what to think of it.

Social anhedonia is where you are simply not interested in interacting. Basically, social anxiety and anhedonia work like this:

Social anxiety by itself:
Negative feelings increase when you socialize verses being alone and positive affect decreases.
Generally, when you are alone, you may still want to interact with others, and would often prefer to be with others (because there is an interest in socializing); when interacting with others, however, whether you want to be alone or socialize will depend on your level of anxiety.

Social anhedonia by itself:
Positive feelings increase when you are alone verses socializing, but negative feelings do not change.
Generally, when you are socializing, you want to be alone. When you are alone, you want to stay alone (because there is no interest in socializing).

Again, though, social anhedonia is difficult to spot in the presence of co-occurring social anxiety. Wikipedia, though, does list some signs and symptoms which may suggest the presence of social anhedonia, but I would definitely want to run it by your mental health professionals, as well:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anhedonia ... _anhedonia

Social anhedonia as a trait (i.e. as a permanent part of your personality) is a schizoid/schizotypal personality trait (which traits correlate with autism spectrum disorders), while social anhedonia as a state (i.e. as a temporary thing) is a symptom of depression.

Last edited by beneficii on 11 Jan 2014, 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I do that, too. I generally don't talk about myself much IRL.

Willard – Thanks for the response. This is so true (about being hyper-aware following the diagnosis). Interestingly, I still have doubts about the validity of the diagnosis. Not that I am confident that it is wrong. It’s just that I am skeptical by nature. So – What if it is wrong (and there is something else to explore and/or understand)? Anyhow, nowadays, I make every attempt to capture everything that is going on. So that I can analyze it. So, that I can write about it in my journal. And, even ask about it on Wrong Planet.

One thing that is interesting is that I am not at all bothered about certain things. E.g., I have no issues going to the store and interacting with the people who work there (say, I have a question about where to find a certain product). While I hate when the store is crowded, I imagine so does everyone else.

One thing I forgot to mention. It made me really uncomfortable when the clergy spoke about the importance of being interconnected with others (and the need to talk with others). I almost felt like he was talking directly to me (like I needed to be more social). Though I knew that that was not the case.

Beneficii – Thanks for the response and sharing this information. This social anhedonia sounds interesting. Generally, I don’t enjoy socializing. Other than when I am with the few people I actually feel comfortable conversing with. With most people, I simply don’t know what to say.

During my diagnosis, I asked to be evaluated for a variety of things (including Schizoid, Aspergers, Social Anxiety and more). I am still a bit surprised with the diagnosis, given my lack of interest in socializing. But, I think it’s a lack of interest because I am terrible at starting conversations and keeping them going. If someone approaches me and asks me questions, I am more than happy to talk about something I am familiar with.



I am not currently seeing a mental health professional. But maybe it’s time (I was in therapy for several years, when I was younger).

Last edited by Rocket123 on 11 Jan 2014, 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Marybird – Thanks for the response. I don’t mind when others initiate it either. I think socially clueless is a good word. Maybe also socially inept.

It all sounds completely normal to me.

Do you WANT to socialize with people in situations like this?

you sound like me in a grocery store where the cashier starts talking to you as you pay for your food. i end up going through this long complicated thought chain like: should i talk to her? will she hear what i say or just nod like shes obviously doing for everyone? Ok i guess i'm saying something, what do i say?? and after all this process i've already given a bad impression by staring at her without blinking for at least 4 seconds which is apparently incredibly creepy.

basically why i have no friends.

If socializing is defined as standing around and talking about nothing in particular, then no. That is not something I particularly enjoy doing. Though, I suppose it some ways, it depends upon the circumstances. I particularly do not like large gatherings where it's all about talking with others (be it parties, events - like the one I described above or networking events).

Now, I am OK with smaller "get togethers" (say, tagging along with my wife when her girlfriends and spouses get together). At those, I spend most of my time listening. I typically do not talk that much. I can do those every once in a while.

When I was younger, several of us (including my wife) would get together and play cards. I thought that was fun. But that is less about talking and more about playing a game.

There are times, that I don't mind having discussions with people. Particularly, when I have something to say (about a topic that interests me).

I am now quite curious about this social anhedonia thing. And whether my response to socializing is caused by an ongoing, underlying, mild depression that was cited, during my recent diagnosis. I am also curious whether drugs would make me more interested in socializing.