Not an Aspie or NT

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Does any one else feel like they're not an Aspie or NT?

I don't know what I am.

I'm not sure.

I haven't been to an evaluation yet and so I'm in a constant state of cognitive dissonance: 'Do I have it, or do I not?' The problem is that if I don't have it, then I don't know what I could have that would explain why I don't feel like an NT.

I have a lot of things that make me feel as if I definitely have Asperger's such as a history of stimming and bad social skills, but then I remember something like the fact that I don't have any noticeable visual/auditory overload and it distresses me. I'll think things along the lines of 'Is having hypersensitive touch really enough in terms of obvious sensory issues?' or 'Some people say that when they are touched it literally feels like fire courses through their bodies.. my sensitivity is no where near that severe'. I get tired and get pains randomly, but how do I know if that's sensory related?

I also have a talking style different to the 'Stereotypical Aspie' in that I keep most things to myself, unless I'm absolutely sure that it won't be taken negatively.

Henceforth why I'm going to be seeking an evaluation!


EDIT - My autistic friend has more friends and connections than me, and seems to be able to socialize better in many ways. He uses tone, body language that is quite similar to mine in that we both exaggerate it (I only realized that recently). I seem to be able to talk more fluently, or at least clearer than he does though. People seem to connect to him and like him more than me, and that's always been the case among my friends - I tend to be the person that is very likeable for a while but then I 'drop off'. I think it's because I can fake and give off impressions fairly well because I know how to manipulate my voice and emotions after a life time of getting rejected and working on them. His personality is the closest to mine out of the 4 friends (including both of us) that we have in our core group.

The main traits of autism that he has and I don't are:

+ He needs to mentally prepare for everything at least one day in advance, otherwise he's too scared and excited to go/do something.
+ He apparently has, on average once a month visual and auditory distortions.
+ He was non-verbal for 6 years.
+ He struggles with abstract and I don't really have a hard time with it.

Possible traits of autism that I have and he doesn't are:

+ My executive functioning seems far worse than his. For example I can't concentrate as well as he seems to. There's more here!
+ I have a more 'Aspie-like' sense of humour, in that I make a lot of puns and links, wordplay etc. This may relate to details and/or patterns, I'm not sure. I'm more detail orientated than him.
+ I tend to stim/fidget a lot more than he does, though my stims tend to not be the obvious ones like 'hand-flapping' as they exhaust me.
+ In general, my sense of touch is more 'distorted' than his.
+ I'm more of a perfectionist; he is far less bothered by disorganization and things that look messy.

The problem I see with that? His traits seem far more noticeable and 'staple' than mine.

Sorry for the rambling but I felt the need to elaborate as to relate better to the topic.

Last edited by Norny on 18 Jan 2014, 6:20 am, edited 4 times in total.

I am not presently waiting for an evaluation but am thinking of asking for one (I am diagnosed with social anxiety and depression at the moment)

I have some sensory issues but they won't always stop me from doing things. They can limit me a little bit but not in a way I find distressing in the sense that they stop me from living a life as I can find ways to work around them (such as going to the supermarket when it is quieter or wearing headphone/ear plugs etc).

IE I am sensitive to noise and certain types of light and it is why i don't like crowded supermakets and why I will avoid doing my shopping on busy days if I can (the noise from the registers, loud speaker, people talking, everyone walking, trolleys squeaking etc which makes it a cacophony in your head combined with the horrid off glow of the lighting they use and everyone walking towards you when you are trying not to walk into things and the fact that they have moved everything again and you can't find what you are looking for make it an horrid horrid horrid horrid experience) but will still attempt it if I have no other choice. I will get in and out as quickly as possible though.

No I don't have panic attacks and no I am not concerned with what people think of me at the time. I am too overwhelmed by what is going on around me to even hear my own thoughts let alone care what other people are thinking of me. I don't hyperventilate so it's no good people telling me to breathe either. It is just a very uncomfortable experience is all. The lights actually make my eyes hurt, the cacophony hurts my head, everyone walking at me makes it difficult to navigate my surroundings and I can feel slightly disorientated but not panicked as I am used to it in a way. I just push through and try to get out of there as quickly as possible.

I don't want some therapist torturing me by insisting that if I just stay a bit longer I will become desensitised to it. No I won't...I have stayed in the supermarket before, I am nearly 40, I go into them regularly..the light still bothers me, the noise can still be too much and so on.

Also I cant wear certain materials (wool and wool mixes can often feel like a thousand pins prickling into your skin...its painful to wear), can be irritated by clothing labels (but not as much as when I was a kid), don't like certain food texture (mashed potato although it can depend how it's made), can be irritated by elastic and seams in clothing and socks and so on.

But I can tolerate these things without screaming in obvious pain. That does not mean that I am not very uncomfortable though and that I won't eventually reach my limit, throw a wobbly and try to get away from it eventually, because after long enough of being tortured, I will.

Last edited by bumble on 18 Jan 2014, 6:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

This. I went through this process over and over and over . Im now coming to terms with the fact that I may just be cognitively/neurologically unique. There is alot of nonsense surrounding ASD's in general and this schismatic grouping we have on WP. Nt's vs ASD's Self diagnosed vs Diagnosed. Looking in from the "outside" (as usual ) its starting to look rather absurd.

Were forgetting that the concept of an ASD itself is complete and utter fiction. Its no like cancer or diabetes insofar as there is no neurological signature - just a loose set of weakly correlated traits which psychs have subsumed under the one umbrella. What im seeing in myself and in others is a founding of identity on the concept of the ASD.

This is EXTREMELY dangerous. Look what has happened to aspergers in the DSM. These categories are subject to change. One year we have a triad of impairments and the next we may have a quadrangle of impairments excluding some.

My identity is my own. It isnt defined by shrinks and psychs. The moment I start defining myself through something as mercurial changeable and uncertain as the spectrum is the moment I place my very sense of self into the hands of "Petty bureaucrats" and mindless psychs.

Ive been torturing myslef psychologically for months over this. Ive drawn up long 1000 word essays delineating my traits ive relating every aspect of my personality back to Asperger's and im STILL not sure whether I have it. Even if I do get a diagnosis I wont be sure. Then there'll be the constant nagging fear that they'll alter the criteria excluding me. Maybe they'll introduce brain scans and i'll discover that I dont have the right neurotype.

People I implore you stop defining yourself through your diagnosis. It can only end in tears. The diagnosis should act not as the map but a loose set of directions with which to explore your personality. Discovering aspergers explained why over a month after my last shave my skin is still extraordinarily sensitive (I can feel every hair shaft pricking my skin) it explained my sensory sensitivitie. It explained my outbursts of uncontrollable emotion. Explained why I feel as if im the wrong gender/age/nationality/genus/personality type/thinking style. It explained alot. However, that should be where it ends. The next step that eveyrone here seems to embark on is then "buying the tshirt". That is people seem to start to make their own personality secondary to AS. Everything becomes an expression OF AS rather than AS being something runnning parallel to their sense of self. It should be a reference point


[quote = "Bumble"] I dont know what I am[/quote]

This says it all. Without ASD you have no identity. I was the same for the last 6 months and im starting to emerge from it. Its the most liberating feeling. Im fortunate in that my obsessions tend to shift over time so it was a matter of waiting for my "ardour to cool". Now that it is starting to cool I realise that the process that many here go through - adhering their personality to the diagnosis is itself very "pathological".

Furthermore it prevents growth. Instead of viewing your traits as things to overcome you start to look at them as things to preserve. My inability to see the world from the other point of view is not something to be proud of. Its a flaw and I should be doing my utomst to overcome it as I have with all my other personality flaws. Unfortunately ASD's encourage people in some cases to avoid changing these things because that would make them "less aspie". Given that their sense of self is bound up in just how aspie they are it stands to reason that they're going to be unwilling to improve. Quite the opposite probably ends up being the case.

I found myself fearing adaptive processes. I worried that if I became to adept socially that i'd no longer qualify and i'd never be diagnosed.

Last edited by binaryodes on 18 Jan 2014, 6:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

I agree. I have a lot of neurological quirks that are just not explained by Asperger's or being NT.

One example is my problems sticking to routines. I have a lot of trouble being on time for routine things like school, but I don't have trouble being on time for non-routine things like doctor appointments.

I don't have a job right now, but when I know I will need to be on time for a job. I really need help with this problem, but I have a strong feeling that traditional ASD therapies will not work. Most traditional ASD therapies assume that the person receiving the therapy will be good at sticking to rules and routines.

I didn't want a quote a massive message so I'll do this:

@binaryodes - WELL said, almost exactly how I feel at times. Especially the criteria and brain scan etc.

same. My mentory used to draw up timetables and I hated the rigid structure. I think you may find however (if you're anything like me) that once you get into a routine its a rapturous experience. The world comes into focus and clarity

I kinda feel that way. I'm definitely not neurotypical in any sense of the word. ADHD explains that well enough but I feel like there is something more going on with me. But I'm really not sure that I have Asperger's specifically. I think like I most likely have atypical autism.

I watched this video earlier and liked it, it's Judith Gould talking about how people can't be categorized neatly into boxes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA9HxiPV2ps

She mentioned that a diagnosis can change...for instance a person could be diagnosed with Kanner's in early childhood and later on be more of an Aspie.

Being chronically late is a classic sign of ADHD.

I have a really hard time getting into a routine. I am also extremely indecisive.
I don't know if this is an ASD trait, but I often choose the same things over and over just to avoid having to make a decision. Then I get tired of those things and I'm forced to make a decision.

given that aspie refers to only one subset of the ASD population,there are a good few of us on here who can relate to the topic,in that we are neither aspie nor NT.

That sounds like executive dysfunction, and its common on the spectrum.

I usually use the word Aspie to refer to everyone on the spectrum. It's easier to type Aspie than people on the spectrum or Auties and Aspies.

I can relate to this. I've made several plans for routines all of which I failed to put properly into practice. I'm indecisive with most things too.

How come I only get "executive dysfunction" when I'm doing routine things or I'm stressed out? I don't have executive dysfunction if I'm doing non-routine things and I'm relaxed. When I was on anti-anxiety medication my executive function was way better.

I find myself disagreeing with much of what you write here. This bit makes a fair amount of sense:

This bit simply isn't true:


There are clear differences in the balances between white and grey matter in the brain when Aspies are compared with HF Auties and when both are compared with allistics. Aspies have significant enlargement of the amygdala, which is probably one reason (among a couple I can think of offhand) why we are so prone to anxiety problems. For a quick intro, see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_s ... anatomical

This undermines the rest of your argument.

It is true that the categories and definitions are subject to change, which will always make someone whose brain likes systems and categories uncomfortable. As an amateur naturalist I need a working knowledge of taxonomy, which my brain just revels in, but I know that as soon as I get out into the woods the definition of "species" becomes very squidgy! It becomes even more complicated when I start looking at evolutionary biology. The same applies to developmental variation and mental illness.



I agree, completely. You are entitled to define yourself any way you please. That's not up to me, or some shrink, a group for which I hold growing contempt. If you choose not to define yourself as Aspie, diagnosis or no diagnosis, that is your call.

That said, those of us with that neurological variation, which leads to a particular cluster of behavioural and sensory differences, are different, and we are discriminated against and marginalised because of it.

I suggest that to say otherwise is extremely dangerous. You speak of "improvement", as if it's possible for any of us to gradually or suddenly become neurotypical, and that is a myth. To expect us to pass as allistic is unreasonable, both practically and morally. It leads to trained seal therapies like ****ing ABA, and the demand that we become "indistinguishable from peers". You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile! What's worse is that you seem to want that, because living in the hive mind is simply the only thing to do. Much of what you write reads like a homosexual insisting that the best thing for him and other homosexuals to do is to become heterosexual or at least pretend to be heterosexual - I position I find abhorrent.

If you then fail to make some sort of us and them distinction it becomes impossible to fight that, and actually be who we are. Worse, it undermines other groups fighting for similar recognition, and the right to be themselves.

I am different. I'm not like them. I don't think or interact the way they do, but the only reason their way is superior is because there are more of them than us. I am of the view that it is much healthier to celebrate those differences, and develop our own culture (as we are doing on WP), and try to get allistic society to meet us half way. To do otherwise is psychologically damaging.

If you want to be more neurotypical, that's up to you, not me, but please don't try to get me to do something that is not only difficult, if not impossible, but incredibly psychologically destructive.

Going back to the original question, it's entirely logical that one might be neither Aspie nor NT. I'm quite happy to recognise that there are many people out there who are not Aspies, but are definitely neurologically non-normative. There will also be those out there who do not meet the ICD or the old DSM diagnostic criteria but who have AS traits which make it difficult to function in NT society. I'm more than happy to welcome them as potential allies and potential friends.

Last edited by Niall on 18 Jan 2014, 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.