Self Advocacy when applying for jobs

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Hi, I am a high school special education teacher. Some of my students are on the spectrum. I am wondering, when applying for jobs either a first job or a career, have you found that advocating for your needs has helped or hurt you on the job? Has it helped or hindered getting a job? From what I have read many people with ASD are under or unemployed. What should I be telling my students about advocating for themselves on the job?
Thanks for any advice

Truthfully, I don't believe in revealing my condition to any employer, especially in this economy. Society, as a whole, does not have an enlightened view of ASDs. In all probability, employers are even less enlightened owing to the alleged "bottom line." Accommoditons, except among really enlightened employers, would be impossible to obtain.

Not so much directly what to tell your students as rambling on the topic:

When it comes to a work situation, places lie about why they don't hire people, and even why they fire people. That's an important thing to remember.

Another important thing to remember is that accommodations exist for a reason, that some of us need them to be able to work at all, others to be able to do nearly what they'd otherwise be capable of.

A third thing to remember is that if we don't work on making it better, it will never get better.

--

What many people do and find works well is to request accommodations after they get through the interviews, when they get an offer. At that point the company is already aware of their ability to get through the interview, and if they retracted the offer it would be clearly related to the disability. It's less risky than mentioning it during the interview. But, its still actually going through and doing that, instead of just pretending that you don't need things. Actually getting help instead of pretending that you don't means a lot to your ability to function.

Not everyone does this; I'd quite possibly tell people about my blog I post about autism on in an interview, but that's due to me choosing how I want to approach things, as well as my personal symptoms.

It varies person to person a lot is the problem.

Even once you are there, rather than only getting accommodations, does self-advocacy matter. People will mistreat you for people autistic. If the idea of autism comes up it'll probably be negative. Self-advocacy helps people treat you better, though it also makes people ignore you more.

I would never disclose any disability like ASD to my employers.

Some important advice for them:

1. Don't expect the world to bend over for them.
2. Learn to control themselves in public and work. No one wants to see you rocking or flapping your arms in a meeting.
3. When you act low functing, don't be shocked when you are treated as such.

My primary career was essentially over by the time I realized what my disability was and had it diagnosed, so it was never disclosed because I didn't know it had a name.

It did however, affect my ability to maintain employment throughout my adult life. I loved my job and was very good at it, but the stresses of interacting in the workplace and complying with sudden changes in routine would create overwhelming stress over periods of months and eventually my inability to adapt would create conflicts that got me fired. I'd draw unemployment for several months while I decompressed from the stress, and go out and do it all over again.

Had I been diagnosed with this disability as a teenager, it's likely I would never have been expected to hold a full time job, which psychologically and emotionally might have been the healthier option.

However, since diagnosis, I have attempted to create a new career path through a State Rehab Agency for the Disabled, only to find that disclosure of my disability was no help at all. Employers did not have the vaguest comprehension what High Functioning Autism or Asperger Syndrome were, nor were they interested in hearing explanations or accommodating handicaps. As far as they were concerned, since they couldn't SEE a disability, none existed. They consistently ignored my descriptions of what my difficulties were and what caused them and assured me that my only problem was shyness (I was 49 at the time and had spent 30 years in Broadcasting - shyness was not an issue). I had a State Licensed Instructor follow me to my vehicle, screaming in my face "WHY CAN'T YOU JUST BE LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE!?"

When I reported this discrimination to State Agencies with names like "Disability Rights Commission," their response was a blank stare and condescending platitudes like "Yes, that's certainly discrimination, but that's not exactly our department - why don't you try __[Insert Generic State Agency Here]__?" So did disclosure of my disability help? I'm still not working and after 4 years of banging on the doors of State Agencies, I gave up. So...I'd have to say no. As far as the world is concerned, if your disability is invisible, it isn't real.

Personally, I tell people if it comes up, and I don't if it doesn't.
I also don't have a ton of work or interview experience, and I'm just getting started on a career at 34.

That being said, the only jobs I've interviewed for and gotten are ones in which it came up and I disclosed.
I think it helps because, quite frankly, I present as a bit off in a way people can't quite put their fingers on.
My theory is that having a label to file all my little quirks under helps the person focus on me and my personality, skills & talents, rather than on that niggling feeling that there were things about me that confused them or seemed a little strange.

Now keeping a job, that's another thing altogether.
My last full time job before I started freelancing was fine, for a while.

Eventually though, interactions with co-workers deteriorated because they refused to do the simple things I repeatedly request that they do to make communicating with them less insanelely frustrating.
Then, of course, I was blamed for my increasingly irate & problematic reactions even though I explained it to them over & over & begged them to do the very simple things I asked them to, like answering direct questions with the f*****g answer that I know they have but won't tell me 'cause they want to tell me their story about the whole f*****g stupid thing first and I'm just trying to do my f*****g job but I can't 'cause they're witholding the information I need to do so.
One day, after having that person yell at me and put me down about my behavior like I was a 5 year old, when it was he who preciptated that behavior in the first place, I finally just quit.

@OP: I would say to your aspie students to try to find something that doesn't force them to heavily interact with other humans on a regular basis & to be upfront & honest about their condition. Not just for the reason I stated above, but because for myself at least, I consider it fair warning. That way if & when things go badly I don't feel too bad because they were warned and I do my best, but there's only so much I can take. If they didn't do their homework about my condition after being informed of it & don't realize that, that's their bad, not mine. I did my ethical duty by disclosing.
Which I guess, for me, is maybe the biggest reason I do it. I feel very strongly about being honest with people, and I'd almost feel like if I let someone hire me without informing them that I have a pervasive neurological condition that can and generally will cause problems for me at times would be akin to a bait and switch.
So I'm very clear about it with people, and they seem to appreciate that, even if they often turn out to lack any real understanding of what it means to be autistic, and most of 'em have at one time or another accused me of using it as an excuse rather than accepting the fact, as I have, that there are things over which I have very little control in terms of my behavior and actions in general.

Of course, it looks like I'm a minority on this thread.
I'd encourage you to look for others because this is a topic much discussed on these forums and there are even some really interesting recent threads about the whole disclosure issue including a poll.

Welcome to WP!

Not disclosing an ASD is all well and good for some people whose ASD requires no accommodations in the work environment and is invisible enough that most people won't notice. That's the mild edge of the spectrum, close to typical, and it's cool if you can do it... but it's not an option for many of us. (Well, okay, it may not necessarily be the mild edge, if you just happen to have traits that are very hard to spot; but it usually is. In a weird way, that can make it harder because it's harder to get help when it's not obvious you need it. But I digress.)

The job interview is the big issue for many of us. A job interview just doesn't show us at our best--it's highly social. If you want to evaluate an autistic person for suitability for a job, the best way to do it isn't an interview; it's a work sample or trial period or portfolio, depending on the job--something that shows the employer the work you can do. So many skilled autistic people are unemployed because they seem awkward or unpersonable at an interview.

Work trials would be great; it would work better for me. I'm a better worker than an interactor.

However, companies just don't want to spend the bucks on them; they'd rather just interview.

I've been fortunate in having one job for 33 years. I had to interview for a second job recently, though. I did all right, got the job because of my test scores--but people wondered about me. I knew I had to, for the most part, keep to myself. Therefore, I've kept the second job for 1 1/2 years now.

If I would disclose that I might be Aspergian, there might be understanding by some, especially initially; however, when crunch time comes, and cuts need to be made, I'd be the first to go if I disclosed.

Work trials would be great; it would work better for me. I'm a better worker than an interactor.

However, companies just don't want to spend the bucks on them; they'd rather just interview.

I've been fortunate in having one job for 33 years. I had to interview for a second job recently, though. I did all right, got the job because of my test scores--but people wondered about me. I knew I had to, for the most part, keep to myself. Therefore, I've kept the second job for 1 1/2 years now.

If I would disclose that I might be Aspergian, there might be understanding by some, especially initially; however, when crunch time comes, and cuts need to be made, I'd be the first to go if I disclosed.

In interviews, I would make a concerted effort not to seem autistic. I would let out my stims before the interview.

I really think that for those of us on the spectrum there is often an inverse relationship between "easy" jobs and "hard" jobs.

For example, I worked in Kroger grocery store as a checker when I was in my twenties. The managers were disengaged and negative. I was bullied and made fun of by several sackers because my voice was different. To the extent the so-called managers even noticed at all, they rather blamed me and considered me to be a problem employee.

In contrast, I worked at H&R Block in my late thirties and early forties, I got good at some basic tax law and regulation such as Earned Income Credit and tax benefits for education. I then got good at the particular software system Block used. I was considered a valued resource in the office because I was often but not always good with the computer system, and I treated the person with respect who I was trying to help. And I got good at interacting with clients. In fact, having similar but not identical conversations helped me develop more skills. Now, I also believed I should inform my clients of some of the negatives of the bank and loan products. One year out of four I was fired by this awful district person, another reason was used, but in my judgment because I did inform clients. But that means three years out of four I wasn't fired. I might be more skillful next time, and in addition, I will generally take those odds.

It really boils down to this. The same problems that plagues your students socially at school are gonna plaque them on the job as well. The biggest obstacle is getting past the interview and the resume process to get the job, and even if they can get past that process, there's still the issue of getting along with other coworkers in the same way as getting along with other students at school, So one thing to keep the mind is, it always has been and always will be a people issue.

One important thing to remember is in order for an autistic person to act like an nerotypical. We have to put on a live theatrical performance every day(The world is our stage.). We in essence have to write the script, memorize are lines and go do our performance live on stage. All in "real time" and with no rehearsal. As you can see, that can be extremely mentally exhausting work. It's possible to act like an NT, but it's very mentally expensive. Plus, knowing the consequences for failing are very high, it also raises are anxiety and stress levels as well.

Well said, LupaLuna.

If you disclose in an interview you run a very high risk of being immediately stereotyped as weird/unable to communicate and (because of widespread ignorance) mentally ill.

On a brighter note, some large companies in Europe - like SAP (huge German software maker) actively seek to recruit people on the spectrum because of the special talents they bring to the firm.

I would tell my students: The world's a stage even for neurotypicals. Now, I will teach you how to play a role so you could get a job. I would teach neurotypicals in the same manner.

While there's value in that, the barriers are higher and harder for anyone on the spectrum, and it's not a level playing field. What I think would help is proactive programmes to serve the spectrum community in identifying particular, individual (sometimes outstanding) talents and which assist to formulate future employment pathways long before entry into the job marketplace.

The same programme (agency) could build links with job providers in a proactive way - approaching companies with needs for spectrum talent, opening up the pathways.

In the past it was been hit and miss, trial and error, fend for yourself in an individualistic way and that hasn't worked out for so many. Individualism in highly competitive areas doesn't work very well for marginalised or negatively stereotyped groups of people; but this can change with concerted proactive programmes to address the problems. Where there's a will, there's a way...

I am in that age group where we were unknown, (even to ourselves) undiagnosed, unsupported, and though there were many more jobs, we floundered as square pegs in round holes, and it was psychologically and emotionally battering.

While SAP is encouraging, the particular talent they valued was pattern recognition, and they knew that (some) aspies were brilliant at this. They found them, recruited them, and it gave the company a leading edge. It's a brilliant example of matching one area of spectrum talents to company needs.

I don't have software/computer type talents and I'm not suggesting we all do! It's just an example of what can happen when the will and mindframe that respects spectrum talent goes into action to result in a win-win for the employee and the company.

If more and more companies like SAP let more and more ASD people through gaps in the barriers, and publicise the accrued outcomes - as SAP has done - the barriers will start to lower, and general attitudes would change. However in the current job market and in the climate of prejudice against neurotypical difference, it seems to me that hoping that by encouragement alone, pointing out that NTs have to try hard too, will open the job gates - sorry, but I don't think so. A greater shift needs to happen, and it could happen, and I hope it does.