Inability to become wonderful :)

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There are many good people, but then there are some that are just wonderful. I think people with AS can become good people but I think it is virtually impossible for us to become wonderful

You know the people who are always kind and gentle with everyone. They go out of their way to help others and give them attention and try to make them feel good, loving what they do all the while. I adore those people. They are just wonderful. Good people fall short of this although they generally mean well and try not to hurt anyone. Anyway, for a long time I had assumed that with time we could improve ourselves and could become just like anyone we liked. I specifically remember a dream where I was interacting with Chakotay, lol. I was super pissed about something, and just like in the show, he was kind and gentle and patiently and gracefully showed me the error of my way (guided me in a way that allowed me to discover it myself). When I woke up I was like “He is such a wonderful person, there is nothing preventing me from becoming like him. I will do it, and with time I will become like him.” I have also known some people like that in real life. They showed me love and spent time trying to help me and did it so enthusiastically.
Anyhow, a few months later I diagnosed myself with AS and that naive goal seemed impossible. I know I could never attain wonderfulness. I have at times helped others and provided guidance but there is no way I could be so graceful, enthusiastic, kind and empathic as wonderful people. This limit to self improvement deeply hurt me. I know there are wonderful people out there and all I can do is be jealous. The only philosophy which seems, to a great extent, compatible with AS is Stoicism. So we might become somewhat like Tuvok, or T’Pol (I love her), but never Chakotay, who is wonderful. Stoicism would have us behave morally regardless of the consequences, but it is to be done dispassionately at all times. There can be no emotional outbursts or being greatly moved by anything that happens to us or to others. Even if we ostensively empathize with others it has to be faked, for Stoics cannot show great emotions (philosophical requirement). This has its merits, it is fairly easy for people with AS to follow. However, I greatly appreciate emotions. Not much point to a dispassionate life. I have used Stoic thinking during hard times, but I don’t think it can provide us with fulfillment if it is applied throughout our lives. By nature, I love the wonderful persons more than the Stoic who is moral, unless she is T’Pol who is quite loving but tries to hide it, fooling no one in the process I love people who show great caring to others and it sucks that I can never be good at it. This bothers me a lot.
Looks like I went all over the place. Anyone else had this issue?

The existence of those people are a myth.

I have known some.

Those people are few and far between.
A friend of my dad is one of them. He is a great big guy with a deep voice, kinda reminds me of Mickey Rourke some. He always picks me up and gives me a big bear hug and i can feel his scratchy face against mine.
One of the few people in the world who can get away with doing that to me.
He had a son who died at age 12 while playing basketball. i wonder if that has something to do with it.

I've met people who seemed like that.

However, upon further interactions and observations with those people, they all turned out to be flawed and non-wonderful in some way or another.
I think this is more about you putting people on a pedestal because they act all sweetness and light around you.

This is, and always will be a mistake imho.
It's safer to assume that those people are merely more adept at hiding their darker side around you than others are, not that's they're actually all sweetness and light all the time.
That way when they finally do reveal it to you, you won't be as terribly let down and disappointed.

To put it another way: no one can be perfect/wonderful.
So stop lamenting the fact that you're not.

Instead, try to be informed and inspired by the concept of wonderfulness/perfectability as something to strive towards.
For it is in striving towards perfection/wonderfulness that we become out most noble selves, even though we will always inevitably fall short of our goal.

That's what I meant to say.

Sometimes if you have a certain relationship with them, you may never see the dark side (not always evil, just as flawed as any other human). But that doesn't mean you have to compare yourself to them unfavorably.

I'm wonderful.

Wonderful is not perfect. People on the spectrum can be wonderful. I can think of three people on this board. Vickigleitz, Jenisautistic, and Opi despite having histories that would have either killed me or made me the most cynical person in the world are always helpful and nice to people.

Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 15 Feb 2014, 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

am not sure about applying the word wonderful to humans as its like gloryfying them without recognising all humans are capable of bad or good.
although am not just talking of the autism spectrum some people pretend to be extremely nice to manipulate others and woudnt do it if it wasnt gaining them something in the end.

but who says people on the spectrum cant be genuinely profoundly nice and caring,and without any interest in gaining something out of it?
am one of them-its why am driven to be an ID and autism activist,and can think of a number of a lot of other autistic people online and off line who meet that criteria.
but we all have the potential to think or do bad,its part of being human-our personalities arent locked to being one way or the other,but our life experiences flavour how we treat others.

I think autistic people and stoic people can be the most wonderful people of all.

People used to say I was wonderful. Talented, nice, gentle, patient, quiet, full of good ideas, excellent organizer. And I got burnt out.

Exactly!

Hyena.
You have labelled your ideal "wonderful" and decided, that you´ll never reach that quality because, you´re "on the spectrum".
Hmmmm. Spectrum has nothing to do with it.
In your dream, you knew, that you do have the potential, - and you were aware, that it takes guidance and development.
Everything, you dream, is an aspect of yourself, so who do you think guided you???
You have decided, what "wonderful" people do, - well, start practising, a little bit at a time - and don´t think, that "wonderful" people never get pissed!
They just wish well for others. You´ve got it in you.

Last edited by Jensen on 15 Feb 2014, 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

v

It's an evil stereotype, worse when even we fall for it ourselves!

In USA, they feel Athletes are what you call wonderful people, but I am content with being just another Kerl (Bloke).

Any person, and that includes Aspies and Autistics, can be wonderful, because we are all children of God called to holiness. There is no reason whatsoever why someone on the autism spectrum cannot be a source of love and life to others. I for one try (and fail) every day to help people get closer to God. I have faith in everyone on WP that they can do the same -- that is, if they choose. And since it is better to be good than bad, why not become as good as possible? I have faith in all of you.

You are right They too have their faults.
But let me put this in another way that addresses the issue you raise. Wonderfulness requires many characteristics. One important one is the one I mentioned: being empathic, helpful, kind, gentle and loving to others. As people with AS, we are poorly equipped to interact with others in order to show them how much we care. Plus I think we often care less (it pains me to say this). For example when a gay friend came out to me and was super anxious about it I tried to be as gentle and supportive as I could but I am sure an NT would have done a better job. Handling situations delicately and gracefully does not come naturally to us. As a result we can fail to be graceful with others when they really need it.

Although this gracefulness is only one of many requirements for wonderfulness, it is an important one and one that I think people with AS cannot be good at. It is true that NTs who have it have other flaws which detract from their wonderfulness, but we could never achieve this one. Being graceful is very important and I feel that lacking it takes away a lot from a person. So in essence this is a major flaw that can never be corrected. Although others may have many flaws they need not have any as big as this. Plus they may be able to work on those flaws. Deficiency in empathy is a very major flaw, at least for me. The interesting thing is that we appreciate it a lot when we are the recipients but we ourselves often fail to provide it.

I agree that it is noble to strive for perfection.