Verbal abuse of AS partner towards family - meltdown?

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Hello,

I've been on here a while, but never posted before. I have an undiagnosed Aspie partner - undiagnosed because the psych said PDD with enough symptoms to 'qualify' an Aspergers diagnosis, although he said he thinks some is down to how my partner was parented as a child (his father probably has something similar too and is verbally abusive/physically abusive towards his mum sometimes in the past).

I've/We've been managing/getting by for a long time but in 2010 he had a real meltdown which he blame my mother for causing (I asked her to write to his mother asking for help). This is before we knew anything about ASD.

Over the last 4 years he has increasingly blamed my mother for what was a terrible tragedy and set of circumstances when everyone was just trying to help - but he can't see this and says she was trying to split us up - this isn't true but is how he sees it. Then we had an argument last night and he started calling her horrible names in front of the children. Later in the evening I rang her to wish her happy Mother's Day and was saying we'd fallen out. He grabbed the phone and shouted such a lot of verbal abuse at her. I can't repeat some of it on here, but he said for example that he hopes she dies very soon of cancer (my father died of cancer) 'whore' swearing etc etc etc.

My question really is - I put this down as a meltdown but is that right? Can even a meltdown 'justify' such verbal abuse?? I don't know what to do. The whole family is torn apart. He won't talk to his mother or father or my mother...

We have two wonderful children and the thought of the impact of all of this and our situation on them makes me cry.

Has anyone been in this situation from either side? Or can anyone advise on where I can go to for some support in the UK?

I don't know that it matters what you call it. You are saying it was too much for you? That matters, too.

I try to stop thinking about the big picture at such times and just focus on what to do to get through. Starting with walking tall and providing calm and comfort to your children. Either your husband can get with that program or he can't. If he wants help, you could talk to a counselor as a family, but my guess is he wants this to go away, without having to try to deal with something that seems too hard to him. And maybe that can work.

If possible I would try to find a counselor who knows something about Aspergers to work with, much more understanding and concrete help that way. Even if he won't participate, gives you an ally in providing your children with the calm they need. They will feel more secure with seeing that. And it's better than secrets with the family.

I would leave it to him to realize the impact of his actions rather than trying to make him understand. When you feel that he is calm, telling him calmly and directly what you want to have happen is very reasonable. But any drama on your part will make arguing seem reasonable.

It does sound awful, so sorry you are going through this!

It doesn't sound like an autistic meltdown, because they tend not to be targeted. It sounds like a fit of rage.

If this is part of a pattern, I'd be worried.

Yes, people can use foul and abusive language in a meltdown. No, that doesn't make it OK.

I disagree that he should be left to work it out for himself, particularly when he may have real difficulty seeing past his own perspective on the situation.

My sense, mostly from your use of the phrase, "terrible tragedy and set of circumstances when everyone was just trying to help," is that he has some good reason for feeling that your mother was trying to split you up. Possibly this was in another attempt to have him " work it out for himself?"

This sounds like a really bad situation that will take patience and courage to repair.

I would start bey telling him that kind of abusive language toward you is a red line that you will not tolerate. If the concern is about his language toward your mother, maybe it's time for her to be less of a presence in your lives until the damage of the past can be erased.

If I had to choose between my wife and my mother, my support would go immediately to my wife and I would expect the same from her.

If you find that you are pleading for him to forgive your mother and no one acknowledging that he has genuine grievances from whatever was done "for the best" in the past, then I would not expect him to have any ability to see past his sense of unrecognized injury.

This is not consistent with what I have seen. In some people, meltdowns certainly are targeted, sometimes including assaults which require coordinated activity.

It isn't the same in all people,

Yeah, but coordinated activity is a sign you've still got some control. Personally, if I'm out of control enough to hit someone or swear at someone, I'm also too uncoordinated to aim at them and too confused to pronounce the swear word or even remember that they're there as anything other than an object in my vicinity.

I think that if someone's making targeted attacks like that, it's a sign of an anger problem, and AS probably doesn't have that much to do with it. Not "nothing to do with it"--AS might make it harder to learn how to express anger in a less hurtful way, or to learn how to get your way without getting angry. Still, honestly, this sounds like a guy who doesn't like his mother-in-law to me. AS probably lowers the chances that he'll passive-aggressively talk about her behind her back, or pretend to be nice when he doesn't feel like it--it probably raises the chance that he'll bluntly express his dislike. Aspies are like that--honest mostly because we suck at lying.

I have been on his side of this one. What you describe sounds exactly like rage attacks I have had. Mine is caused not by my Aspieness, but from having a severe form of PTSD from a long-term abuse that never got healed. Maybe he has PTSD also? Aspies are big targets of all kinds of abuse, and it can be very hard for us to recognize what is going on, know what to do about it, or heal afterwords.

I think you're on to something there. If a person has been repeatedly attacked, and doesn't have the social ammo to fight back, often times they just lash out trying to "protect" themselves. Childhood bullying or abuse is a common cause and autistics are much more often the targets of such attacks.

It doesn't excuse it--or, more precisely, doesn't mean that one should ignore it--because this kind of mindset makes the abuse survivor miserable too, as well as causing others around them to have to endure those outbursts.

I don't think this is a meltdown as much as it is an anger management issue. Sure there may be a series of meltdowns involved, and they may happen frequently enough, but anger issues are still anger issues.

I think there are several aspects of autism that might be issues in this:

1. Emotional regulation problems: https://autism.unt.edu/sites/default/fi ... lation.pdf
2. Impaired social skills, in particular in the area of perspective taking. Where the non-autistic people may be expecting him to see their points of view without ever quite telling him what they are, he may not be able to do that.
3. Rigid thinking. Having formed the idea that he was wronged, he may have a very hard time letting that go and seeing it as people "doing what they thought was for the best."

It sounds to me like the mother in law will have to make a sincere and convincing apology before there is any chance that he will let this go.

It also sounds like he is abusive to the mother in law and not the wife. It sounds like he feels he was deeply wronged and I think it's really unlikely that this is going to get better without dealing with that very strongly held perception. If he is feeling that others are ganging up on him, that his wife is siding with her parents when they had tried to split the marriage and no one is dealing with those perceptions except to say they are wrong--I don't see much hope of progress there.

It's hard to evaluate it beyond that, not knowing what the "terrible tragedy and set of circumstances when everyone was just trying to help " was.

Why does he believe that mum-in-law was trying to split them up? Is this paranoid delusion, or was there something that could be perceived that way?
If the answer is that he does have some basis for his perception, that has to be dealt with and not excused away as "trying to help."

How would you respond when the validity of your perceptions is rejected and you are told to make peace with someone who has acted as an enemy? He may well be wrong, but that is the way he sees it.

http://righttherapist.com/dir/therapist ... -syndrome/

From what you've said, he's had a problem with your mum for years and has given her a load of pretty nasty abuse after the two of you have had a fight. This is his problem so not sure why you're trying to excuse it or smooth it over. He doesn't like your mum and she probably doesn't like him very much either, but they have to tolerate each other and act civilly to each other for you and your kids. . In this instance the bad behaviour came from him and he should deal with the consequences. Lashing out at your family because he has a problem with you at that time is pretty poor and you should let him know it.

Wow - such a lot of advice and replies. Thank you all. I'm soryr that this reply is son long, that I don't know if anyone will read it...

The 'terrible tragedy' is that we didn't realised that he had ASD/related issues for a long time. Potted story - I had PND after our first child and he kept working through this despite finding it difficult to work/support me. This is a long time before we had any idea of any condition. I didn't know why he struggled so and as he'd say I 'kept nagging him' to house hunt - we lived in a mouldy flat which I was desperate to escape from. Obviously this put pressure on him and its probably fair to say that I projected that need onto him. He gave up his job in 2008 just after our second child because he was depressed/had had enough of the job (they had moved him to managing people). A year and a half later he says he is getting better from his depression, but I see a continued series of, as I now know they are, meltdowns.

The terrible set of circumstances came when I needed a few days away but, I've regretted it ever since, didn't invite him along - I needed to get away for me/my sanity. At the same time, I'd asked my mum to write to his mum to see if she could/would help by talking/writing to him (she didn't even at that point recognise that he had been depressed). These coincide, and whilst I'm away she speaks to him on the phone, reads my mums letter to her out to him on the phone - which she promised she wouldn't do (it was meant to get her to actually realise there was an issue and ring/try to help/support him) and says, perhaps as her way of getting him to listed, that the letter 'threatens' that I will leave. The letter says that as things aren't getting better, my mum doesn't know what will happen and is worried about us as a family. She says in the letter that he needs to face up to his responsibilities - this reflect that fact I just didn't understand why we were in limbo /he didn't seem to see the need. We weren't leaving him - just going away for a few days as I needed space... Anyway - Shakespearian tragedy as I said - with no one doing anything with bad intentions - but every action coming out worse... . He texts and rings and texts hundreds of times.He goes through pleading/threats/ saying he will kill himself etc etc. I say we are coming back and I do go back - a day after I said I would (I broke a promise) as I didn't feel safe taking the children back on that day. The thing I regret most is my cowardice - I though I'd tried to tackle/raise issues but, in part scared wondering what the reaction would, be, feel in retrospect I asked other people to do my 'dirty work' for me. I've been much braver since, but one of my character traits is to hate confrontation - which is obviously an attractive trait to someone with Aspergers but means that problems bottle up.

I get back and face the music and we talk/discuss. He feels betrayed etc. We end up in a full row a few days later when - I think to hurt me - that the only girl he ever loved was someone else - she had died recently. I had had enough and get angry - obvioulys not the right response to someone with ASD symptoms (again we didn't know that then). He holds a knife to his chest and I restrain (I don't know if he would have gone through with it) and he stops when my young son comes in. I call an ambulance but they send the police as well. He doesn't want to go to hospital and I said I didnt' have anywhere to take that boys that evening (and this is another thing I wished I'd done differently - I didn't want to upset them but boy I wished Id found somewhere) so they took him in for the night and put him in a police cell (albeit 'kindly' as far as I can tell). He comes home the next day but I've got my dad in for support and his mum to try and help. Again I didn't realise how much this would be the wrong thing to do... He takes my phone and things. My dad threatens to call the police again unless he returns them. I have bags packed just in case I need to go for a while and again he thinks not unreasonably that I might be leaving. I don't leave, but have to admit that there was a low point in trying to keep things normal for the kids that I nearly did...

After many days talking I come across someone describing Aspergers on the internet and if really seems to describe him. I show him and he agrees. I ask him to get some help. Eventually he comes to the doctor. She proscribeds anti-depressants which in the event had side effects - and I think he blames me for this as he says he took them because he thought I wanted him to and I thinkg, reflecting that this is perhaps the only reason he took them. I was relieved that somethings was happening as it showed a recognisation that something was needed and a sign of hope They send him for a referral with the - eventual diagnosis is PDD with enough symptoms to 'warrant' an Aspergers diagnosis, but the doc didn't want to 'commit' because he felt that was probably mainly 'environmental' from childhood....

So we've been in limbo for four years. I have found it difficult to show sympathy/kindness/emotion, perhaps because I've had to shut out so much and have spent so many years when I didn't know why he wouldn't come with me to things/being disappointed/feeling let down when he wouldn't/wondering why he had these extreme moods sometimes coming out of nowhere/ why we weren't trying to move/ when I had PND his reaction was 'well I've had it in the past' - so have probably gone a bit emotionally numb and been that way for a long time - we've been together for over 20 years. He always said that just my love would see him through - but probably for some of the reasons above I found it hard to show and had done so for a long time. But I DO love him. I've been here for four more years, but I am obviously not the person to help him. I Don't even know if he'd go to see anyone. The doc yesterday has referred me for counselling and has offered to send him back to get another session to look again at a diagnosis given that our son has in the meanttime been diagnose with Aspergers. I don't think he'll see any value/point in doing so given what happened last time. Me - taking the family need as whole rather than his individual need thinks we need as much support as we can get. He hasn't worked since 2008 now so my parttime wage has to keep us going.. They tried to 'fob' my partner off with general CBT - the generic treatment of course - when they gave him the PDD/non-spefific diagnosis but it wasn't going to work for him - he needed to be told WHY/HOW it would help him and he needed it to be given by someone more specialised; so he is 'anti' any counselling now. I told him I'd been to the doctors and what she'd said was possible. I rang his brother because I wanted someone nearby to know what had happened/didn't know if he might try and go somewhere - last time he left and went to a hotel but this time he doesn't have nay money; also because I wanted someone just to text him and say 'Are you OK'? This was a 'betrayal' and I've been told bby the him the wrong thing to do. He also asked to look at my phone (- well his as he gave it to me). I woudn't until he said what he wanted to do on it. He eventually said he wanted to read my messages. I let him, but I had deleted some and told him so when he asked, although I did tell him what they said/were concerning. He said this is a betrayal too and that he can never trust me again.

SO - there are many of my actions I regret. He has fixed on my mum as the ONLY person responsible for ruining his life/his career, but as you can see it is far more complicated than that with many actions all building up to it. Yes he said his depression was getting better and he was probably true about the depression part, but the meltdowns didn't fit this pattern and I didn't know what they were/what to do. I have done things that impacted, and so has his family, but then so has he. I am guilty of not talking through my fears/concerns direct with him - in part because I feared the reaction they would get - often a meltdown - so again I had bottled them up and let them fester - I felt powerless and trapped - he said we would move when he was ready to move - i.e. not at the time it was - I felt - really needed/good for the family. He wanted he said to be sure there was enough money, so it wasn't up for discussion. My wage went on nursery fees/food / birthdays /xmas etc. and I earned less so I fully contributed but I wasn't given an equal say here on moving.

I don't know where this will go. He has no one else/no job/ no money and I'm sure low self esteem/confidence /depression.... But he does still have us. But I have to protect our children too and such strong outbursts aren't good for their emotional wellbeing either....

He threatened to kill himself, your young son came in and saw this, you were afraid and called for help? I understand from your husband's perspective, you have hurt and betrayed him terribly. However, we can each only do our best. You do not help him, IMO, by asking more from yourself than you can be. That only encourages his self hatred as he is not more than he is.

Also, had you not called the authorities and they got wind your child was there, they might have held you as neglectful of your child.

It is the job of a therapist to be understanding, you are not your husband's therapist, and he is making this the terrible tragedy. I don't think buying into the drama that he is painting things as being helps anyone.

I feel his difficulties caused him to put you all through a lot and that it is his responsibility to try to get help so he does not continue to hurt himself and his family. I understand he does not see it this way. Maybe I misunderstand, but it looks like he is anti counseling without ever trying it. Shouldn't he take responsibility to try to be in better control of himself? And at least try counseling rather than wait for other people to convince him they have something to offer?

I see myself in what you wrote quite a bit in terms of believing things because people say so, even when looked at more as a story I am reading, the person isn't making sense. And what they are saying isn't so, yet I take literally. Not saying you have ASD, more just that I can relate. I think we can all get very literal when we are under stress, which it sounds like you are.

Anyway, in case I did not say this clearly enough, I think you should stop blaming yourself for failing to fix your husband. I know you'd like to. But sometimes what people want is too much for us, at least on our own. I hope the counselor you are referred to for you can maybe help with some tips for your husband. But this is not your fault, nor your mom's, nor his mom's. He is also responsible for his life.

Last edited by Waterfalls on 01 Apr 2014, 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Totally agree with this.


You could not have known how asking for help from your mother and mother in law would work out. There is nothing to feel guilt for here. The fact that he felt conspired against is a problem you have to work out together (meaning he has to want to and try to work it out)—but not with your “guilt” for anything as a starting point.



If he can never trust you again, then you have no ongoing basis for an intimate relationship. He either needs to do whatever it takes to get over this, including professional help, or give it up.

His refusal to deal with his problems is a far greater betrayal of you and your children than any of the petty “wrongs” he thinks you have done to him.

You do have to protect your children. So does he. Nothing about ASD absolves him of that responsibility. He needs to stop thinking of his own drama first and foremost and start thinking about what he intends to do for his children.

SadGirl, I hope you don't feel too overwhelmed by our responses. You asked in your original post whether a meltdown justifies abuse.

We at WrongPlanet tend to be direct.

And the answer is an unequivocal no.

People don't abuse other people because of a defect in the victim. Though that does correlate to a higher incidence. People abuse other people because of a problem in themselves and we do not help them by taking on responsibility for their actions. Though we may help by taking responsibility, should we care enough, for making the persons life easier. Respecting his point of view is loving, saying it's your fault he does things he shouldn't is unwise, hurts you, does not help him, and is not something you or he will want your children to see or copy.

But usually, people's responses to newcomers is gentler. I think we really do care, though.