Getting a bit sick of the Pro-Marijuana culture...

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Pot is not harmless at all. Smoking even casually is known to actually cause long term alterations in brain function. This isn't 100% proven fact but it has been demonstrated fairly convincingly. Pot can also exacerbate many mental conditions.

Ive noticed that stoners are generally far more attached to weed than they'd care to admit. Ive been a stoner myself so I do know what im talking about. People for whom pot is a central part of life tend to experience anxiety and inner tension if you will when the pot is removed. Its not as severe as other drugs of abuse by any stretch.

Im pro legalisation and distribution through commercial supply. I do not buy into the idea that it is a cure all however.

I support medical marijuana.

I am totally against all recreational drug use and find it sick that people barely consider marijuana a drug anymore. If you want to support it, do it honestly. Admit that it's still a drug and still has negative effects.

I'm even iffy about drinking until drunk.

Howdy there Dreycrux. I've just been enjoying reading your ideas.

I haven't been in this tread previously so I'll try to be brief and get back out.

Someone in another forum had brought up the debilitating effects of marijuana and wondered how you could manage to perform within society while high all the time. My post compared this situation to alcoholism and asked the OP if they knew anyone who was (used to be?) a "functional alcoholic", that attended to business every day, cared for their family, etc., successfully,, but was always intoxicated and never had a traffic accident. There seem to be people successfully (?) living their lives this way.

The physical effects remain as debilitating but their minds adjust (alas, while being damaged by alcohol).

And I drew the parallel to marijuana use, suggesting to the OP that after a while (ask any heavy "pothead") if smoking regularly, that you loose your "buzz" that social users prize. and that after a term of non-consumption that their "buzz" (and precious "high" returns. I find, when consuming cannabis, it's only past the "buzz" that the full "mind expansion" can be realized by people intent on studying the subtle intricacies of the mind (such as yourself?).

THC pill or spray? Maybe someday but certainly not now. This is my personal opinion derived in the following manner: I have an illness..........doctor's all tell me I can take strong medication (which I did for a while) which will make changes to my body such as changing blood chemistry to make me vulnerable to other diseases, etc............... they tell me I could also have a surgical procedure, though effective for my condition, would leave me with a greatly lowered "quality of life.".....................so after a (self) trial period I slowly backed-off my other meds (made my doctor "very" unhappy...........and I now treat myself with cannabis. My present doctor knows of my usage and only cautions against over-consumption of the basis of creating problems in other areas.

The above being the lead-in to my present life I find myself unwilling to trust the research being done. There are many many chemical components involved in the ingestion of cannabis and, even today (especially because of government obstruction) little is known about them. We know something of and talk about THC and CBC but what do we really know about them or the effects of all of these other compounds?

And most important to me: Which of these many components is responsible for saving me from the terrible life I faced before????? Should I experiment and take a chance on diving back to the (poetic here) soul crushing effects of my disease and it's effects on me??? So pills and sprays are a good idea (for me) if done correctly, but it will be some time before researchers complete their studies.

As far as legalization to remove the criminal component on drugs I'm for it 100%. And I can imagine a society of unrestricted drug use, but I wonder if our neurotic, paranoid (etc.) portion of the population is ready for this? I don't believe in ignoring the ill, uneducated, damaged (etc.) that would be harmed. I believe we need to address the issue of marginalized people, and see their needs addressed first before such a huge move. I believe WA and CO are in error for this reason.

I'm out of here for a while but just want to say thanks for speaking out.

yehh im sort of going that way myself too w/regards to recreational drug use. I dont use any drugs at all except cigarettes and I find that they just become sources of attachment desire and weakness in varying degrees. We already have multiple dependencies on culture sex people food etc why add yet another slew of sources of dependence Happiness imo comes from being free of emotional ties which constrict and keep us moored to the earth. They keep us trapped in these inescapable cycles of desire acquisition satiation and that just leads to a sort of constant mania. This idea is interestingly found in every major religion.

Concerning the mind expansionism I have to add also that the insights offered by these chemical agents can be profound and do sometimes make the transition into the sober mind to be employed in life. However, one really is firstly playing a dangerous game neurologically since there seems to be (correct me if im wrong) alot of evidence that pot damages hippocampal brain cells affects motivation and emotional stability etc. This isn't even with heavy long term use.

Additionally, the insights gained by actually getting out into nature escaping society and taking time to really search one's soul are generally of a far more profound and life altering nature than the dubious earth and cosmos shattering revelations achieved on acid (most of which are "forgotten" or rather are incomprehensible to the sober mind). The problem with these agents is that they induce another sort of dependence which can be quite insidious. They create a dependence on chemicals for spiritual revelation

Last I checked current research implies cannabis does not cause any brain damage....now I wouldn't say it can't possibly effect brain cells or the hippocampus but it unclear how it effects it. I do know part of why medical marijuana is now used for epilepsy in some cases is because it helps protect the brain cells from damage the seizures can cause so if anything its neuroprotective.

Also though I don't see any issue with recreational drug use, or using psychedelics for mind expanding and spiritual revelations, this has actually been going on essentially since there have been people by the way. I guess the way I see it nothing wrong with mind expanding or mind altering chemicals....I think it should be an individual choice. As for people who don't like the idea of using drugs for such purposes, I think their best option is not to use them...rather than having society set up to punish people who do make the personal choice to do so.

Its ridiculously contradictory and complex but in recreational users the effects seem to be somewhat different http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 181156.htm. I guess one might compare it to students using ritalin and those with ADD using ritalin. The latter are addressing an imbalance preexisting, this causes fewer ill effects as it simply promotes overall balance/equilibrium




True, but I think (at least for me) it promotes spiritual laziness. The kind of transcendence that we're all aiming for can either be achieved over a lifetime with much internal struggle or can be achieved (in an albeit truncated form) with a pill tab powder or root. The inevitable is trying to combine the two and ending up dissatisfied with sober practise.

Hindus do however have a place for Bhang (cannabis flower tips) during festivals. I believe they believe it to be something that should be consumed with purpose as opposed to purely recreationally.

I can only really say that recreational drug use is counterproductive to my spiritual quest

I suppose I sort of include all that in recreational use....basically its use that is not needed for a medical reason, though I guess there is somewhat of a difference...either way not sure if I see anything wrong with people just wanting to enjoy the effects of a substance either.

To the original poster, you are definitely not alone. I am against the misinformation about marijuana use because it hurts people. More and more of the problems associated with marijuana abuse (not use, but abuse) are going to become public knowledge as more and more states push to legalize the drug.

At the same time, I don't think it is wrong for someone to use marijuana if they want to. It is that person's body. However, I think people need to know the truth about the possible risks they take when using marijuana. I also believe that anyone who drives while intoxicated or puts co-workers at danger because they are intoxicated on marijuana needs to be prosecuted, just like with other drugs (many of them legal). No one has the right to endanger other people by operating heavy machinery while impaired.

I am also against legalization because with legalization comes increased use and increased social acceptance of marijuana abuse. One thing the war on drugs does is put people in positions to get help when they need it. Alcoholics have a much longer history of alcohol abuse before they get treatment. Why? Because there are no legal consequences.

Another thing is that the culture (and laws) are going against science, just going on popular opinion. The opinions of people who don't have much direct knowledge of problems associated with marijuana abuse.

If anything the war on drugs is part of why a lot of people with drug addiction problems don't get help earlier on...there is a lot of stigma so I don't think more punishment for having a drug problem would be a good way to go about it. Perhaps treating it as a medical issue instead of a legal issue would be the best idea.

Sending people to prison for substance use is cruel and inhumane.

Not to mention a massive strain on investigators and law enforcement which in turn leads to yet more cruelty and inhumanity.

People go to treatment for drugs because of the social stigma and legal consequences. Also, in many, many, many cases because the courts offer to let them stay out of jail if they go to treatment. Treatment works, even if, initially, it isn't the drug user's idea to go to treatment. That's why increasingly (at least in my state), they are reducing jail sentences and really pushing for offenders to go to treatment. This is part of the war on drugs too, you know. It isn't just locking up drug dealers. Also, how many people get significant jail time for small amounts of pot? In my state the maximum is 45 days, and you only get that sentence after they put you on probation and you mess up really bad on probation. You're lucky to get any jail time at all for marijuana possession.

This is just my personal experience with the treatment industry (as an addiction professional, someone who went through treatment, and a long-time member of a 12-step fellowship). Things might be different where you live, but the people in treatment where I live who are in their teens and 20's are on marijuana, stimulants, and pills (benzos or opiates) The straight alcoholics (no drug use) are probably in their late 40's or 50's.

Also, look at statistics for abuse and problems associated with specific drugs. Alcohol and nicotine are the U.S.'s worst drug problem by far (worse than all other drugs combined). Why? Because they are legal and widely used. Making drugs illegal keeps many people from using said drugs because they do not wish to have a criminal record and because it drives up the cost and generally makes it more of a hassle to obtain said drugs.

Last edited by em_tsuj on 25 May 2014, 1:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

That's your opinion/assumptions, but far from actual fact.

Alcohol and nicotine kill so many because they're highly addictive destructive substances.

Portugal decriminalized all drugs over 10 years ago and their drug use rates went down, disease transmission rates are down, education about drugs is up so people make informed choices as they have access to legitimate information vs. learning from drug addicts and dealers, policing/legal/prison costs are down etc etc - everything moved in the right direction w/ decriminalization whereas prohibition just creates a lucrative black market and increased demand due to the simple fact that people want what they can't have.. so if you withhold things from people, they're more likely to want to try them. When they're openly available, along with information, people are less likely to want to do drugs in the first place.

Two friends of my parents were murdered by their son who was on marijuana at the time. Was a user for years. Apparently he has recently been ringing his sister asking where his parents are. He is in prison now.

Not sure about legalising it. It can really mess you up.

I don't see it in statistics of drug use in the U.S. Legality leads to availability which leads to higher rates of addiction. I don't think that is a coincidence. If it is easier to get something, you will be more likely to get it. Go to the NIDA website and look for yourself. I don't know what the solution is for the U.S. but legalization without the other stuff (proper drug education and access to EFFECTIVE treatment) is not going to do anything but increase drug problems with no help available for addicts. The U.S. is not Portugal. You also have to consider the state of the healthcare system in the U.S., and specifically the treatment of substance abuse. Substance abuse treatment sucks in the U.S.!

I would be interested to know things about Portugal's culture that make such a program successful there. Maybe we could emulate some of those things in the U.S, but I don't see Portugal's solution working in the U.S. without major adaptations.

btw, decriminalization is not the same as legalization. Decriminalization is where people are not sent to jail for drug possession. It does not mean they are not punished in some other way. The move away from long prison terms and toward sending offenders to treatment is part of a move in the U.S. toward decriminalization.

Marijuana didn't make him murder anyone. The guy obviously has serious issues that have nothing to do with marijuana use.

100% of serial killers drink water & breathe air. Maybe we should ban water & air?