Can you ask someone to listen without understanding?

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Hi,

My girlfriend keeps talking for hours about other people, what they think, how they change, their behaviour together and with her, and other stuff. There is much of it I don't understand, and I often have the feeling that her opinion on people is completely exaggerated or is an imaginary construction based on completely anecdotal and inconclusive evidence. And sometimes it frightens me a lot because she will tell some horrible things about someone for no specific reason although she said some more positive things only a few hours or days earlier (or the other way around). However, I recognize that in the end, her way of working allows her to have fulfilling and interesting relationships with good and intelligent people, so I suppose she can do whatever she wants.

The problem I have is that she constantly talks to me about all that. She knows I don't understand much of it (I told her) but she says she doesn't mind and just wants to talk to me. That's true that she doesn't blame me for not understanding and just want to talk, but I feel completely useless when I listen to her analysing other people's behaviour. (Sometimes I can make the occasional insightful comment but it demands me huge efforts for almost nothing and most of my conversation is "Mmh", "Yes", "Okay" and silently nodding) Even when I do understand, my deepest thought is "Well, yes, people are thinking/doing/... that but what's the point of talking about that? Do you want me to do something about it?"

I don't mind at all listening to her when she had a difficult experience with someone and I try to support her as much as I can in those situations, but general banter on everyone is just a tedious chore to me and I feel bad about it. It takes some energy I wish I could manage to focus on more constructive things. But if I refuse to listen to her she says that I don't allow her to be herself. Is that acceptable? I think it is rude and disrespectful to keep speaking to someone about something he is neither skilled not interested in and expect attention. But am I right to think that or is it typical NT behaviour ?

In some ways I think she wants to teach me her way of analysing and manoeuvring people, but I don't want to learn that. I don't even know if I could, and some aspects of it feel very wrong and frightening to me.

LOL.....such are NT ladies: so fickle!

She just wants to use you as a "sounding board." She wants to vent a bit. She has set opinions which will not be altered by outside input.

I would use these discussions as material for later use in my life--and your education on people--or perhaps as a character in a novel you might write. Especially the Macchiavelian stuff: that stuff sells! LOL

How is she at other times? Romantic? I hope so. Otherwise, the relationship is useless, to me.

Well, when I manage to make some insightful comments, she does listen to me. When she simply describes how people behave and keeps to the facts, sometimes my autistic mind sees some patterns and correlation she misses.

But yes, preconceptions, yes. More and more I think that nobody (NT or AS) really understand each other, but only autistic people accept that. It is somehow too scary for neurotypicals so they have to invent stories about each other. And since they do it in globally similar ways, they manage to have some kind of implicit communication thorough that. I'm just not interested in making up stories. Or, yes, let's call it a novel and publish it as fiction



I do that, it is useful in some way. But it is like attending a class on some topic that is useful but in which you aren't really interested.





Many things. Romantic, passionate, incredibly clever, incredibly sensitive, crazy with justice and equality, and more focused on understanding my condition than anyone. I want her in my life and I don't want her to be different I just hope she and I can learn to relate in a way that is as respectful to each other as possible.

Sometimes its easier to figure things out yourself when instead of trying to analyse it internally, you talk to someone else, even if they only interact with a little of it. Because then you are needing to figure out HOW to explain it to them, and in doing that, you are figuring out how to understand it better yourself.

That process is one which is really difficult for some people to do without actually doing some sort of interaction with people. That might be why she wants to talk to you.

Or at least, that's why it'd make sense to me.

I know that process, I sometimes do that, although most of the time it is when I send e-mails to people, and the simple fact of putting my thoughts in a written, structured form makes them clearer and often gives me some new insights or ideas I hadn't when I started writing. The person I send the e-mail to could or could not have interesting comments to make, but writing the email is often enough. Writing a diary gives me roughly the same benefits, although it helps to put thoughts into a form where they can be understood by a different person and I can understand why some people really need the interaction.

However, I am not sure it is what is at work here, because when you do that you usually have a clearer mind, new ideas, solutions to your problems, etc. after the interaction. That is not the case here. I can sometimes add something relevant but it is not the point. It is just that she "needs to talk about it". Usually she has not changed her mind or found any new insight through the conversation; really from my point of view it is completely pointless. (When she plainly tells me she does not understand something about someone and asks me for help I gladly give her my advice. But those are very different conversations, much rarer, and they do not make me anxious. I may or may not have good ideas but I just try to help and do my best, and that's fine.) It looks those conversations are useless and change nothing but still she needs to have them Even "small talk" with acquaintances has more purpose ; I believe that in its simplest form it just means something like "I want to keep the communication channels with you open" but that's something. I don't understand why you would "just need to talk" about what other people do and think and that's just it. It looks like it is what some NT people do but I don;t know what to do, to me it is both boring as hell and anxiety generating.

It helps her thinking. She wants to tell about the stuff because she can hear her thoughts more clearly then and she is able to analyze them more easily and come to better conclusions that are important in her opinion. Just let her do it, say: "Really?", "Are you serious?", "Is that so?", "He did what?!" once in a while (the "Mmh", "Yes", "Okay" and silently nodding will also do the trick). Don't feel useless - you help her understand her own thoughts and have some fun this way. Of course, you can tell her to stop it but better have a good reason then - or she gets angry. xD

The whole thing might seem rude to you but it is how NT women act.
My mom also does the thing to me all the time.

She probably doesn't want your opinion, but does want you to know how she is feeling. If when she is talking about what other people said or thought you respond by asking how that made her feel, she will probably quite satisfied, even if you mention that you don't understand the behaviors that she is describing at all.

I have seen this sort of conversation and noticed that the person is essentially talking to themselves and the other person (you) just happens to be there.

I'm glad you have such a special girl.

I would agree with the other posters--variations on the same theme: the need for a person to "air out" feelings through something like a monologue. At times it's almost like a rhetorical question--the questioner not expecting an answer. I still have trouble with that LOL....I frequently feel like I have to answer a question, no matter what.

Sometimes, I am able to play the neurotypical game of "mmm mmm"--which is something right out of Rogerian psychology. Sometimes, I'm really not in the mood--but I play along. Other times, I might try to provoke one engaged in that sort of monologue--trying to be as subtle as possible, and not always succeeding

Is your girlfriend an autism advocate?

It seems like she has a relatively enlightened outlook.

I do believe neurotypicals and people on the Spectrum should at least aspire to understand each other. There is common ground, at times. At other times, the inclination is lacking in one, the other, or both. At still other times, one, the other, or both are absolutely befuddled. This occurs amongst neurotypicals of differing styles as well.

There was a relationship guru named John Gray, who had a couple famous books in the 90s - 'Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus' and 'What Your Mother Didn't Tell You and Your Father Didn't Know', who said that men talk about things that concern them to find solutions, and women talk about things that concern them because they need to express their feelings about them.

His council to men was "shut up and listen, she doesn't want you to solve her problem for her, she just needs to talk about it." In other words, if you offer solutions, she thinks you're not actually listening to how she feels.

As for why some people will talk glowingly about someone one minute and then grossly disparage them the next, I will never understand that, but I always assume that if they run down their best friends to me, they're talking the same way about me when I'm not around.

I don't know what you mean by that exactly ; she's not doing activism in associations or wearing ribbons (that's the kind of things I associate to the word "advocate"). But she thinks we are just people who work differently but have a place in the world like I have one in her life. She keeps posting things about autism acceptance and neurodiversity, and when someone says something rude or degrading about autistic people she can get so angry that she sometimes scares me. Clearly she is defending me, and more generally people on the spectrum.




As I was writing I don't know if anyone can really understand each other. But we can try, and at least be acceptive, respectful and friendly to people as long as they do the same



I read part of that book a while ago, and honestly I didn't like it at all (that's why I only read part of it). It was full of gross oversimplifications, sexist clichés and preconceptions justified by pseudo-scientific rubbish. Overall I found what I read both not helpful and rude to the men and women who try to overcome the cultural stereotypes linked to their gender.

However, I don't dismiss the particular piece of advice you are giving. That looks accurate and appropriate indeed.




Yes! I agree, but I only realized that a few months ago, shortly after my diagnosis. That the way most people think and talk about me is probably not like the way I think about them but more like the way they think and talk about each other. I found it scary and for some time it made me a bit paranoid, but I think I have got over it.

But I am quite sure that my girlfriend, is not doing that with me, because we talked about it and supporting each other in front of other people is part of what it means to be in a relationship to her. Even when we had terrible arguments or when I had meltdowns, we could be horrible to each other sometimes but we never complained about each other to other people.

I meant more the advocate in her personal life, rather than one who wears those ribbons.

I'm an advocate for many things; I'm not one for carrying signs, though.

I don't think ANYBODY could understand ANYBODY completely, unless one is within the other's body. It's always a matter of degree, really. I could understand you somewhat, based on what you wrote--but the understanding would be enhanced should I actually meet you in person.

Just curious: What is your impression of Hounslowe? Does it mean the Bay of the Hound (like in foxhunting?) I have the impression that "low" is a medieval/early modern word for a communicative howl (as opposed to a frustrated howl).

I apologize for the "aside," with no relation to the topic at hand.

Last edited by kraftiekortie on 15 Apr 2014, 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

That's one thing I simply cannot wrap my head around. I even went to a counselor, they pointed out that I do it all the time, I'm aware of it yet can't stop. It just seems illogical that someone would complain without looking for a solution regardless of how they feel. You might as well say the Moon is made of cheese: that's makes far more logical sense to me.

I don't grasp that concept too well myself. However, I do "shut up and listen."

When I'm in a certain mood, I might challenge (a hypothetical lady's) assertions; that really irritates her.

Now, I could go back to my ballgame

"Typical Male," she says

But I never ask her to go get me a beer (for I don't drink beer). I usually cook for her, actually.