ASL vs PECS - that is the question.

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Background : My son will be 5 soon and still doesn't say a word. Receptive language is so-so, as in he can follow simple every day directions if he is in the mood to comply. We had tried to use ASL with him for more than a year, with very little progress. He has a few prompted signs, but he is unable to string multiple signs together to make phrases or clarify exactly what he wants. For example, he can sign "eat", but does not know how to respond to a further question "what would you like to eat ?" IF the item he wants isn't available in his field of vision. If the item is visible, then he points to it.

At our last clinic meeting with his intervention team, I brought up the question of using PECS due to the slow progress with ASL. Now, I know that ASL is considered to be a "real language" but my son's signs are modified to such an extent (due to his dyspraxia) that even a community of signers whose first language is ASL will not understand him. At this point, I just want him to communicate his needs and wants. While some would probably argue that meltdowns are a form of communication, I am looking at functional communication. I have talked to many parents who can vouch for PECS and that is what I want to try. But I would also be grateful for any feedback I can get from non-verbal adults on the spectrum so that I know I am doing what is best for my son ! My personal opinion is that we have wasted too much time already on ASL and I want to move on to PECS to see if that will help him learn to communicate better.

Problem ? His current agency is somehow anti-PECS. They have stubbornly refused to use PECS, his program manager actually went to talk to his ST to ask HER to not use pictures but to use ASL as she is "concerned" that my son will lose the few signs that he does have ! Needless to say, she will not be permitted to talk to his ST again.

I have a meeting with the agency director next week, because they feel that I would accept this decision better if it came from her, not from anyone else. Not gonna happen. While I respect the director, there is NO WAY on God's green Earth that I will agree to not implementing PECS anymore.

My husband told me that we should just start using PECS at home - after all the agency people are not with him for more than a few hours a week - and wants us to attend a PECS training session together to implement it at home. I am 100% in agreement, only thing is that it bothers me that they won't work with him during their sessions as well.

My question to anyone here who is technically non-verbal or who was non-verbal for a long time - before learning to communicate verbally or via writing / typing, how did you communicate ? Does anyone here know of any specific drawbacks with PECS that might explain their strong anti stance (aside from it costing them $$$ to train their own staff in its proper implementation) ?

Kindly advise. I do NOT mind moving to another agency at this point of time but I need to know if maybe - just maybe - there is something about PECS that I missed and which would make it such a strong negative for my boy ?

Thanks in advance !

Having deaf friends, I'm familiar with ASL and a few things about it.

What is PECS?

From your post I gather it's some sort of communication system using pictures. Can you explain it further?

Also, it may be helpful if you explain why your agency is anti-PECS to see if their point of view makes any logical sense or not.

My reply isn't the one you are looking for because I've never been considered non-verbal. I began speaking at 2.5 echolalically (and remained that way for several years). My current speech diagnosis is Mixed Expressive Receptive Lamguage Disorder. In the past, I was labeled with Aphasia (I have no known brain damage, but that was the label I had for many years).

I am curious why they are so anti-PECS, but I suppose at least you get to find out.

I learned ASL as a kid to compensate for speech difficulty. My children learned ASL natively as babies/toddlers.

The thing I wanted to say was that FOR ME, ASL works like a language. It is stored in my brain like a language. If I cannot find the word to use for speech, I cannot find the word to sign.

ASL has been sometimes helpful for receptive communication for me. That was the basis for having an ASL interpreter as an accommodation in school. (It caused other problems for me though, but they aren't as applicable to your son).

I'm also probably not a response you are looking for, as a child I had a speech delay and was really pushed in speech therapy. I really don't remember how exactly they got me to speak. After years of being verbal how ever I have all but given up speaking, for me it costs to much from my other resources and other abilities to speak and it is extremely taxing. Now I reLly mostly on my aac and a pecs system form communication.

The one draw back I can find with the pecs is trying to find the right picture, but then again I might not have my system set up properly Ibut o do thinks pecs are good and might be a decent window into teaching him to maybe use an ipad to speak?


I'm not entirely sure /why/ they are so anti PECS. Maybe they are worried about how much it will cost them to get a pecs kit.

Though we make most of mine..

I've seen PECS. It's low-tech. It shouldn't be expensive.

Maybe they think he'd lose the ASL he acquired--or that he will not be inspired to develop verbal speech because of it.

No personal experience here, but by luck my son (who is on the mild end of the spectrum) ended up at the BEST speech therapy practice in our city. They do a lot of work with non-verbal kids and teaching them to use iPads and other assistive technology (AAC). If they are using PECS/AAC, I don't understand what the objection would be for using it with a non-verbal 5 yo.

There's a couple of powerpoint presentations on their website, the one nearest the bottom has the most info:
http://www.crimsoncenter.com/recent-powerpoint-presentations.html

Some apps they recommend:

Just found a study of outcomes with ASL vs PECS -- might be ammunition for your discussion with the program manager:

http://www.uwo.ca/fhs/csd/ebp/reviews/2007-08/Shaw-Cosman,MA.pdf

It describes the results of several different studies. Here's one:

And another:

Tincani is the reason I am pushing for PECS now. I think this whole "he won't vocalize", "he will lose interest in talking with PECS" etc is all nonsense. It isn't like he is interested in talking NOW. He is a huge vocal stimmer. His mouth is ALWAYS moving and he is forever making noises, but no words. He has had words in the past, but they didnt last. I am frankly no longer worried about speech, I am more concerned about his inability to communicate except when prompted. I was just hoping that PECS will promote it as his dyspraxia probably makes it harder for him to sign - hence actually suppressing any desire he may have to communicate.

Not to dream up conspiracy theories but I think that their opposition is due to the cost it would cost THEM to train their staff in PECS, unlike ASL which can be pretty much self taught on the cheap using the standard ASL manual. Otherwise, their opposition just does not make any sense to me.

It also made me angry that they would even try to talk the ST out of using PECS !

My son has decent gross motor imitation but no fine motor or oral imitation skills. He also has motor planning challenges so most ASL signs are hard for him to make and have to be modified for his usage. So, his signs aren't true ASL, either. He is probably a prime candidate for PECS than ASL but they want to stick to ASL despite minimal to no progress with it as a medium of communication. Sounds like they have his best interest at heart, doesn't it ?

How do I bring about the reason of cost being their sole motivator at the meeting, without sounding accusatory / angry about it ?

I use tap to talk

Functional communication system
And autismate generally


I really want to try proloquo

Honestly doesn't sound like a conspiracy theory to me, what you are saying makes perfect sense! Sound more like they are cheap and more intrested in thier pockets then what's best for your son and possibly others with autism, while they may have good intentions they still need to be more adaptable!


Not sure what to say have you considered getting an ipad with communication apps? If so I might say pecs will open him up to more way to communicate such as through an Ipad if he can learn to use pecs........


I would also bring up your opinion on why you feel pecs are better for him then asl

Your mom you will generally know best!

am both non verbal; by the traditional definition and severely speech impaired and use PECS and makaton to communicate with largely, have got about three BSL signs as am unable to learn the language due to it having to many steps.

until adult hood,had been non verbal and speech impaired with no alternative communication,it caused a lot of severe challenging behavior and was one of the underlying reasons was moved into a institution,but from then on was given SALT and taught makaton and given PECS,both have given a level of independance that never had and reduced a lot of challenging behavior.

however,have lived with many adults who are still non verbal completely or apart from one or two words and in all of their cases their parents have said they think they woud have come on more in speech if they hadnt been using symbols.

through own experience am of the belief though that theraputic intensive SALT combined with ABA and an alternative communication method is the strongest way to gaining speech,as well as not allowing him to regress on any speech he does have by asking him to say the words he knows and giving him a lot of praise when he does.

to many parents of adult profound autistics become used to the idea their child will never speak but many have been enabled to be that way because they have always had their communication done for them- either assumed or via symbols without any intensive SALT.
one lady that used to live with was profoundly autistic and she was completely non verbal,her room was above mine and one night-when all but the waking night staff was asleep had heard the lady [asleep] say an entire sentance,went and told the staff and they checked on her who was in a deep sleep. her parents were overjoyed when they found out the next day but she has never done it again,she has however started speaking single words to people because they have raised their expectancies of her.

I believe, without all the AAU (Augmentative and Alternative) communication methods, that people who are stuck because of lacking oral speech (as well as having other physical disabilities) would remain stuck and trapped, extremely frustrated, unable to communicate despite the obvious ability to do so. Communication is what makes us human. We would not have the benefit of their wisdom. It would be a total disaster in all senses.