What is "depression"?

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I read about it, but I suspect greatly I have it.

There are times where I feel like I can't do anything and that I can't really get out of it. I have feelings of happiness, but they never last long. Is this depression? If it is, I don't like it.

"Depression is a state of mind caused by a sense of loss", well, that's the definition I was given by a psychiatrist a long time ago because he knew that I wanted to fight my depression using my intelligence and my ability to think. So, if you're feeling depressed then one way to keep it under control is to analyze what caused that sense of loss and then target it specifically.

I don't know if others feel the same way but I have heard that you never conquer depression, you only keep it under control, Winston Churchill called it his "black dog" and history shows that he certainly got the job done!

I think roughly depression can be viewed as either situational or biochem. And with changing hormones and changing social situations, the teenage years can certainly have either or both.

Okay, there are several approaches:

1) for me, it helps to get out of the house relatively early,

2) there's what's called "cognitive behavior therapy" pioneered by Dr. David Burns and others. Some counselors make a religion out of the thing and that's a mistake. It's more a set of approaches and skills. And then the baseball approach, and I mean for things in life, where sometimes things work out and sometimes they don't.

3) and there is medication, although it is trial and error in a respectful way, just that everyone's biochem can be a little different. And also, with these medications, it's sometimes important to phase down in a series of steps, even if it doesn't seem to be working, just that your body has gotten used to it.

And apparently, it can take 4 weeks to tell whether the medication is going to work or not. It's really kind of incredible. And some publications have even said 8 to 12 weeks.

I myself have not yet tried medication. But I like having it available kind of as a fallback position and an ace in the hole.

I can't differentiate anymore. For me there's mainly a feeling of being oversensitive to everything and finding just getting through the day overwhelming. I probably don't just have depression. I have a lot of anxiety and some BPD symptoms as well. I experience whole clusters of negative feelings, everything from anxiety, to doom and gloom, to rage, to feelings of intense longing for something I can't identify.

This is what I think it is:

D - extreme feelings of Despair and hopelessness
E - Energy seems to have collapsed
P - Pessimistic about EVERYTHING, Purposeless
R - Relinquish former interests, activities, goals
E - Everything seems too much of an effort, even basic self care
S - Sadness persists and pervades everything without external causation
S - Solitude, withdrawal, can turn Suicidal; Self-hatred prominent
I - Isolates self and inertia dominates
O- Overwhelming idea (false) that nothing will ever change, feels Oppressed (which may be true)
N- Negativity and resistance to constructive offers of help. Self-defeating behaviour escalates.

And here is the best explanation and example, I have ever seen, of what it means to be depressed!

B19 did you learn/see this somewhere? Very well done.

All my own work thanks for your compliment

I have developed my own theories of depression, having experienced it myself at various stages of my life, starting at age 11, when I decided to starve myself to death. (Obviously this was not successful - happily).

In adulthood it became clear to me that the professional "help" was very weak in some areas: it was aimed at erasing or suppressing the symptoms, not the cause. Prescription anti-depressants were of very limited value, and one psychiatrist was dangerous (bullied me, sexually propositioned me, discounted the idea that life experiences had anything to do with depression, and other toxic behaviours that I now know are symptomatic of arrogant narcissism with which that profession is riddled.)

My overall theory is that depression represents the collapse and flow of energy at four essential levels of human being simultaneously:

1) Physical level (inertia)
2) Emotional level (incapacity for positive feelings)
3) Psychological level (cognitive collapse, cannot see alternatives, solutions, endless rumination)
4) Spiritual level (existential despair)

True recovery, I believe, lies in recovery on all levels. Recovery is the repossession of function on all levels which return to function in a state of positive synchronisation.

But you can only start on one level at the beginning of recovery. Most people are (too hastily) offered advice on the physical level ("Just get out of bed and exercise!") or the psychological level (Go and get some anti-depressants!) These may be of some value to some, though they are not helpful for a very substantial proprotion of people, because they are too limited.

For me, it has been more helpful to start recovery on either the emotional level - (exploring, processing and resolving denied feelings) or the spiritual level (with the help of a spiritual director who is trained in the experience of the "dark night of the soul" as a spiritual transition, a growth experience. )

In Western culture, we want the easy fix: take a pill, make it go away. This is a very limited, mechanistic and often unhelpful way to go. It works for some (no doubt some posters will attest to this) but to me it is a very short-sighted approach to a very major experience.

Good things can ultimately come out of severe depression. If you travel right through it to resolution, and don't get stuck along the way.

Also, depressed people don't actually want nor thrive on well-meant advice, generally. They want to be nurtured, validated, supported, to have their experience accepted as part of human experience, not as a mental illness that stigmatises them. Someone to be beside them and hold their hand, not standing behind pushing them or judging their condition. Even though they will resist it, they need to hear the mantra: this too will pass. You have to hold onto the hope for them, during the time when they cannot hold onto the hope themselves.

It is very important that depressed people are around "tank fillers" and not "tank emptiers" - the tank emptiers are people who lecture, chide, judge, blame, criticise, discount suffering, trivialise the situation, come from the attitude base of "I'm ok and you are not". These people are harmful to everyone's mental health, and can be ultratoxic to the severely depressed.

So in a nutshell: my theory of depression is multilevelled and founded in the experienced situation of the person, rather than viewed as a "disease", like the flu. It's an opportunity for huge life transitions, though it never seems like that at the time.

I didn't agree with some of what you said. I mean, just because something good can come from an earth quake or heart attack or death or loss (or depression) doesn't make it good. But this part is beautiful.

Sad for no reason.

There is clinical depression where your whole outlook to the world is changed more toward constants negativity than sometimes becoming depressed, which is a temporary emotion people can get into.

You can be born with a predisposition to depression and if you've got neurological problems and a mood disorder it's highly likely you will develop depression even without any dramatic event taking place. For mood disorders the triggers are very small things.

My experience with depression comes from having a mood disorder, aka bipolar. And my depression is only constant for around 24 hours. When I remain in the mood it will mix with my higher mood states and create a mixed episode, and then eventually I'll be hit with a sudden rush of euphoria.

But back to the depressed mood, which is a more intense, almost clinical level of depression experienced temporary in me. I jump between depression and mania quicker than most with bipolar so I have a lot of time to monitor it in a more or less 'normal' mood, because it doesn't get to the point where it feels like 'I'll be this way forever.' I come out of the fog and I'll able to look at my symptoms objectively.

First, you begin to experience self-doubt after having over confidence and a surplus of motivation. That motivation begins to dissipate too. You lose that energy rush and things seem so much more difficult to do from that loss of energy and motivation. Your usual chatty demeanor around people begins to turn into short quick answers, snappiness, and even going to extreme length to avoid them. You no longer want to be around a person who is just cheerful. They seem to be fake or at least a caffeine addict who no longer understands what it's like to actually feel real emotions.
You don't feel like doing the things you enjoy. Your mind turns to self-hate and judgement. Everything little flaw you once managed to overlook suddenly becomes your main topic of focus and you begin to rip into yourself. Your mind will begin justifying any reason to end it all now. At certain random parts of the day you'll just burst into tears. For those who can stay functional and get the daily tasks done the smallest hiccup will make you break down. Often moderate to high anxiety is experienced. I'm unsure if unipolar depressions come with the level of paranoia I get though so I'll leave that one out.

Basically, I think in the non-mood disorder types depression happens when a depressed mood persists and begins changing the brain. Anything we focus on builds new connections in the brain so if we are constantly pessimistic those connections will be stronger, and the more positive feelings or memories will be thought of as unimportant so the brain just prunes those areas away to make room for more pessimism. For a depressed mood to remain constant you have to be in a situation or environment that often leads to negative things happening. Sometimes it just takes one dramatic event, a death int he family or a break up. For me, it was a near mugging. First came the anxiety then a whole bunch of confusing symptoms that were PTSD, but traumatic situations are also the perfect trigger for mood disorder development.

So, as mentioned by other people depression does feel like sadness for no reason. There really is no reason. The thoughts are completely false, as I forgot during my last bout of suicidal ideation. Sometimes it's really hard to tell what is real and what is fake when you have some very severe depressive episodes following higher than usual mania. Depression symptoms exist either from a chemical imbalance or structural changes in the brain, or both. So it's preoccupation on negative thoughts about self and life in general. Energy and motivation is decreased. Relationships with friends, family, and lovers are challenged as depression makes us seem very rude, unempathetic and all round just unpleasant to be with. It's hard to be motivated to do those basic everyday things and you no longer care for doing those things you usually enjoy. You might not be able to eat as well as you did before, or in my case even be able to make meals. There's an increase in focus and memory problems and a high risk of suicide in severe cases.

Interesting. Sounds almost Jungian, if you don't mind me saying? I've always thought that depression is something almost impossible to overcome. I hear stories about athletes that overcome depression and I'm impressed, but later they have a relapse. And when people tell me 'this too shall pass,' I know they mean well and I know that I will feel better soon, but it will all just come back again.

For me though, I think no matter what situation you put me in and how much I work on myself in all those 4 levels, I will never overcome it. But it's different for me.

The only thing that really get me out of a depressive episode quicker is to re-direct my thoughts into a more positive way, and nothing too delusional. It's more I give myself practical positive solutions. And that can only happen once I get control over my emotions. That's two levels already. As for physical...exercise, eat healthy, brain train. Spiritual...hmm...well, I pray.

You know, this could work. If that's what you meant? Existential despair are really uncomfortable feelings to have. I just ignore them and don't even give them that opportunity to begin. I just can't deal with them on a emotional level.

For me its the product of:

1 Eating a crappy diet...all that junk food, processed foods, processed sugars, grains and even dairy can impact my mood. This is another reason I love paleo diet, no mood swings.

2 Society being an arshole and insisting that eveyone has to be an extraverted social butterfly who does nothing productive with their lives other than standing around incessantly gas bagging about things that people clearly don't understand because instead of trying to learn something about the world around them they are too busy endlessly flapping their gums....

Ergo I feel like I am dropping IQ points nearly everytime I try to socialise (there are few exceptions, once in a while I find an intelligent person to natter to or with and that is rejuvenating).

I am also not allowed to relax and just be myself in social situations. God forbid I should accidently go quite so I can think for a moment or just because I have run out of things to say. This need for people to keep talking constantly is impossible for me to keep up with and it can put me off the idea of having a relationship. I mean they seem romantic on telly but in reality I don't think I could standing living with someone I could never sit quietly around. How awful to have to keep talking all day everyday without a break! It should be used a form of mental torture in prisoner of war camps. I'd have told them anything just to shut them the hell up and be allowed to sit quietly.

Also the world gets stressed out over stupid s**t and takes itself too seriously (no sense of humour, gets upset over things that are funny such as accidently colliding with a lampost or losing your way even with 3 maps (atlas, OS map, and hand drawn map) and writen instructions on how to get there. Amuses the hell out of me (I find it bloody hysterical) but apparently I am supposed to be all butt hurt and spend hours beating myself up over it )

It's so ridiculous out there, I can't possibly get to grips with socialising in this this society.

That pretty much sums up the cause of my depressions when I get them.

The depression itself amounts to my feeling sad and/or angry about the above.

The treatment? Avoid human civilisation along with all the crappy food it tries to make you eat (as jack lalanne said "if man made it, don't eat it!"). It did take a while for me to learn to accept that I am not suited to socialising with other humans though so I went through a bad patch over it first. Once I accepted it seems to be a bit easier now.

I had idealistic notions of finding a human who was easy going, fun, entertaining, intelligent and whom would accept me for whom and what I am without trying to change me. I had hoped to find someone who would understand and care about conservation, someone who preferred a more natural way of life and someone who could see through all the societal BS and belief systems that are mostly designed to drive the wheel of greed and consumerism (but are not necessary for a truly free, happy and healthy life). Now I realise no such human exists (except myself, I am truly alone on this planet) and have stopped looking for them. I did decide that, under such circumstances, that I did not find the idea of being social attractive enough to worry about it.

As narcississtic as it sounds I prefer to spend time with myself more so than others. It's not meant out of narcississm, narcississm is a product of a hierarichal belief system and I am egalitarian. It is more about there being no human who is compatible with me or there being no human in existence who possesses the traits I seek. Ergo my search is pointless and is a waste of my energy.

Humans are lost in this consummeristic society and have condemned themselve to a life of physical sickness, mental and emotional stress (trying to live up to unrealistic expectations), greed, selfishness, prejudice and discrimination (another product of a hierarchical belief system) and so on. I don't want to join them. I don't find what society has to offer in the least bit attractive.

Why would sickness, poverty, stress, and judging oneself as not good enough because they don't live up to some stupid list of man made rules about what a human should be be worth seeking out?

Why would I want that? What for the flickering gadgets and boxes that make people think they have wealth and are therefore superior?

1 Spending hours sitting at these devices with lack of physical exercise is unhealthy...see my note about sickness above.

2 They can have their uses but should not be used to the extremes they are...they now replace real world relationships and quality time with real human beings or even family members. They are socially separating humans.

3 They feed people rubbish ideas and ideologies they would be better off without (BS by the media etc).

4 They lose value so if you want to invest or spend your money wisely invest in the company that makes them but don't expect the product you bought from currys last friday to increase in value over time. That way you are losing weath and are getting poorer by the minute. The company that makes them however is raking up the dough instead!

5 They can mess with your sleep and throw out your circadian rhythm. Powering them burns up the fossil feuls unless you are using solar panels which not everyone can afford.

6 Misinterpretation is rife on them as reading comprehension seems to be an issue in todays' society and without body language it is too easy to misread what another person is saying and how they are saying it. Writing style and spoken styles are not always identical with each other.

7 They can be used to slander, harm, degrade and humiliate others (such as though pages on facebook set up to humiliate people eating on the tube).

Society is driving itself in to hell. I want no part of that. It's madness out there.

Last edited by bumble on 01 Jun 2014, 3:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

Oh the other type of depression I get is not feeling fulfilled in life but I just need to find something I am passionate about to quell that one.

As for social stuff I will natter with the rare few individuals I find interesting or kind hearted in life, but I don't go out of my way to be social (in general) anymore, and quite frankly, I feel happier for it.

Quit eating processed foods, processed sugars, grains and dairy...

Diet affects the brain, the brain is responsible for cognition.

Sugar consumptions affects mood as it affects blood sugar levels.
Lack of essential nutrients affect mood as the brain can't function optimally without them
Lay off foods with nasty chemicals in them...they affect homeostasis in the body, which affects mood by affecting the bodies chemical balance

For me personally grains and dairy have the effect of lowering my mood, both can cause an insulin surge which can cause a reduction in blood sugar or fluctuating blood sugar levels. I avoid these products particularly cows dairy (I am not so strict when it comes to goats and would consume it but rarely).

Eat plenty of Omega 3 fatty acids and a nutrient dense diet based on FRESH fruits, nuts, seeds, vegetables, meats and fish.

DO NOT do a low fat diet (for the love of god that is bad for you, the brain needs fat to function). Do avoid vegetables oils or fats disproportionately high in Omega 6 fatty acids and fats that are hydrogenated though. Animal fats, fish oils and olive oil and coconut oils are good though.

Lay off too many carbs...unless you like living in mood swing central with drops of energy happening through the day.

SLEEP

Get plenty of quality sleep....

comfy sleep environment, no electronic gadgets at night, not too much noise, make sure temp of room is right, stick to a regular sleep pattern but don't try to sleep if you are not tired.

Get plenty of fresh air and sunshine...vitamin D is essential. If you can't get enough sun, get a supplement.

Drop this silly ideologies sold to you by a consumeristic society that really does not care about your happiness and just seems to want to force you into being what it thinks you should be. There are few natural laws as to what a human being should be or how they should live (other than a few basic biological ones...two arms, two legs, a head, needs to eat, sleep, have sex for procreation and so on). Society made the rest up...don't get sucked into it.

What are you passionate about, waht actually fulfills you in life. Forget what society says should fulfill you, what does?

If it does not harm anyone including yourself go spend some time doing it.

Be free, be natural, be you...accept you.

Oh and get plenty of physical exercises (preferrably for flexibility, weight lifting for strength and some cardio for well cardiovascular health).

That lot should help if you are not already doing all of it....(it's a very holistic approach)

Excuse my typos....I made the posts in a rush lol