Uni are trying to kick me out.

Post Reply New Topic

"Now that I hear I might be taken off the course, I am reconsidering whether I should carry on living or not."

This statement has me greatly concerned I don't know you well enough to determine whether you wrote this as a cry for help or would seriously contemplate suicide of forced out of university, however at a minimum it reflects a very acute state of depression. As a Nurse I urge you to seek counseling immediately to work through this.

On an alternate note, with regards to school I have two suggestions:

1) Have you really explored whether you could handle a position as a Pharmacologist? I would recommend you do some research on the true nature of the work and the stress involved, etc. maybe do some informational interviews with pharmacologists in your area. If your present situation is stressing you to this degree, you may consider an alternate career choice.

2) If you truly believe this is a sound career for you, then I would suggest a self-paced online program might be a better option. This would allow you to reduce your course load and would shift much of the interaction required from face-to-face to more online communication.

There's the Equality Act and the Disability Discrimination Act here in the UK.

I suppose I was asking for too much from uni. I just want to learn so badly, education is my life. I get angry at myself for having so many disabilities and I wish I didn't. I want to get a BSc, a PhD in the future, a job I enjoy, as much as I can! I wanted to do a Masters after this in neuroscience but that's probably not going to happen either.

I am not sure whether to give up with regular university education and go to the Open University, or whether to keep fighting.

My friend and support worker are fighting UCL hard for me, but I'm beginning to wonder if I should give up.

I've done a 9 month course at the OU before and I didn't like it - the textbooks were stupid and the lecturer was useless, telling us newspapers are a good resource for essays on Human Biology!

I'm going to ask my neurologist about further investigations (MRI primarily) in as to why my neurological health has deteriorated over the last year.

I am starting to think there is a vendetta against me by multiple institutions.

I am also starting think that my disabilities will end up so bad that I'll be housebound with need for daily care again.

I receive support from mental health services. Counseling never works with me. I need practical solutions to problems. Just talking doesn't help.

I'll reply properly to everyone's points later on my computer. I'm using my mobile phone atm and it's rubbish.

I do not have an academic background, but do have practical experience of the application of the Equality Act (the Disability Discrimination Act is no longer extant, its provisions having been now incorporated into the Equality Act). UCL is subject to the provisions of the Equality Act and you are, clearly, entitled to the protection of it.

A simple process of elimination suggests, as others have already identified, why UCL is considering that you may be ?unfit to study? :-
1. Clearly, it cannot be because of failure to meet minimum academic requirements.
2. It cannot be for the benefit of your health, which would almost certainly be adversely affected by you being excluded.
3. So, it must be because you are perceived to be disruptive and having an adverse effect on the studies of the other people on your course.
Prior to the meeting in September, you may wish to consider requesting written details of the reasons why UCL consider that you may be ?unfit to study?, to enable you to take appropriate advice, and consider your position, in preparation for that meeting.

It is important, I think, to identify the cause of what UCL consider to be the current ?problems?. Do they arise from any wilful disobedience on your part? No ? or at least, I hope, not to any material extent. If not, they must arise from the effect of UCL?s arrangements, to which they have a duty, under the Equality Act, to make ?reasonable adjustments?, on your disabilities, i.e. you may, and probably are not, the problem; the problem is more likely to be, at least to a large extent, UCL?s failure to make appropriate ?reasonable adjustments?. The ?reasonable adjustments? that are required to be made are those that are reasonable on the facts, not simply those that are asked for, or recommended by a disability advisor or which appear on a list of suggestions of the sorts of adjustments that may be made, in general, for disabled people. I infer, although I may be wrong, that your principal difficulties arise in the lecture environment, due to sensory issues. This is certainly an area in which ?reasonable adjustments? could be made. (UCL are probably reluctant to consider such adjustments. Institutions, in general, are constitutionally averse to considering any exception to their arrangements etc, but this is precisely what the duty to make ?reasonable adjustments? is aimed at changing.) The provision of a support worker, to accompany you to lectures, will not eliminate the sensory issues, although a support worker may help you to cope with them. What should be being looked at is how to create a micro-environment for you which eliminates the sensory problems. Certainly one way would be to provide you with a quiet room where you could access lectures via a live video feed, and would be well within the scope of what constitutes a ?reasonable adjustment?. Other adjustments might also be required. You may wish to consider, prior to the meeting in September, sitting down with your support worker and taking a virtual walk through a typical day at UCL and identifying what things cause problems for you and what practical things could be done to eliminate them, or at least ameliorate their effects.

Tarantells is right, at least for universities in the states.

I had the same thing happen when my bipolar disorder was out of control with my university. Except they offered me a year off to get my health back together, with no penalties.

I have a feeling the university will spin *that your physical health is poor and that is why you need time off*. Especially when you list in all your physical symptoms.

Good luck!

Thanks both.

I will ask the university what exactly their reasoning is (as they have been very elusive in their choice of words).

UCL has failed me many times in the past by not making any "reasonable adjustments" at all. Most of the first year I had no support whatsoever, not even a mentor. I ended up having multiple catastrophic relapses.

There is an IT room for disabled people that is quieter. But as for a single small room for my support worker and I to go to during breaks, so that I can calm down? The uni said "we don't have any rooms to provide you with"! I am amazed at how there can't be an empty small room on a large campus??

My support worker thinks I have a good case to stay in UCL and he will fight it out with me.

I am on Gabapentin for my migraines and I have had the first day without migraines so far for the past three months (normally by now I would be laying on my bed in great pain with a cooling pack on my head, which happened every day so far).

As for my mental health, it is definitely improving. I went out with my friend today (who also has AS) and I managed to control my general paranoia and the voices were not too bad. The only problem I had was my OCD issues (which still affect me daily).

I am committed to my mental health team's support and I am in contact with the psychologist there who gives me good suggestions and reminders.

I just want to make a life for myself. That is all.

My own university did something worse, to people who had similar issues like you (multiple psychiatric and physical issues). They would pass you along, you'd get a degree, but no letters of recommendations. No leads on jobs. No references. Nothing. With no professor willing to talk you up, it is quite hard to get a research job or into grad school here. Especially chemistry.

I remember my professor telling me point blank, "Research has no time for drama. We have million dollar grants on the line. You need to work 12 hour days. This is our pay checks and careers, and we depend on each other. You do not have the luxury of flaming out when things get rough. Maybe this degree is the wrong choice for you." I always did love his brutal honesty. Lol...

I left the department on good terms. I really don't have any regrets not doing high powered million dollar research work. My bipolar disorder couldn't have handled it. There would be no amount of support or medications that could have made it possible, and Lord knows, how I try to make it happen.

Please don't say I don't understand. It took me a good ten years before I came to terms of not getting my PhD. I grieved. I tried to commit suicide twice over this issue. I wish I could have pulled the plug earlier and chose another more compatible career.

You need to step way back and see if this particular degree is doable. Is it worth it? Is there something equally enjoyable that I could do, but possibly over looking?

My best friend, an NT, was let go from the PhD program. It was one of the worse days of my life. He was a hard worker, but his professor said he bad no original ideas, no vision and his dissertation subject was crap and undefendable. He finished up his MS, and got a job as a worker bee in a lab. He is so happier. Had he gotten a PhD, he would have never been hired (too much $$$), and no research company uses PhDs as worker bees.

The reason I bring this up, is you sounded like you were suicidally depressed. When I get like that, it's all tunnel vision, the world doesn't understand, and any suggestion *other than what you want* is dog s**t. I had five peer review journal articles published, and a 4.0 before pulling the plug on the doctorate. I was plenty smart, there would never be enough support to keep me stable and productive.

Hoping you feel better....

♡huggles♡

**edited because OP posted before this was done. OP, I've been following your story since the beginning, and am glad you are in a better spot today**

My advice is to keep fighting. I also agree that getting a PHd in the future would be very difficult for you, but it's the BSc that we're focusing on now so...
I had depression during my final year at university. They didn't try to kick me out, but they did force me to stop living on campus for "Health reasons", without consulting me or anyone with academic knowledge of depression. They lied by saying that they would let me return to campus accommodation if I stopped doing certain unpleasant things I was doing to my self at the time. Fortunately I'm better now. They never let me return. I eventually moved in with a friend, but that lead to some unpleasant consequences too unfortunately. Anyway, the point isn't to complain about my previous problems, which seem small compared to being kicked out completely. The point is I just gave in. I didn't protest in any way. I just let them have their way without making a fuss because I thought they might change their minds if I didn't rock the boat, and concentrated on getting better. Concentrating on getting better is good, but I still regret not fighting. Complain to whoever you can complain to. Protest to whoever you can protest to. Consider taking legal action if you have to. If you don't you'll regret it, and I speak from experience.

They have let you down by not providing adequate support. Despite anything your teachers might claim, the university doesn't exist for the convenience of its staff. It exists to do everything it can to help you learn. That's what thousands of pounds in tuition fees pay for. They shouldn't think that you're asking them for charity just because you need a little extra help.

As for suicide, I'm glad you're doing better, but, if you ever think about it again, consider two things. Firstly, everyone fails on their first try, and if you do you will remember your suicide attempt every day and regret it every day. You don't want that. Again, I speak from experience. Secondly, no matter how bad things are now, being institutionalized will be worse, and they can keep you in the psychiatric ward for as long as they want if you attempt suicide. I was very lucky to avoid that.

By the way, my mum got a perfectly respectable psychology degree from the Open University. It?s a legitimate thing (despite Tantella?s protests), if you consider going down that road.

Thanks both.

I don't really know where my life is going. I want to do research (PhD and onwards), but if that will just suffice to make me very ill, then perhaps I shouldn't.

I'm really smart apparently. People tell me that. I want to use my brain in whatever job I get. I don't want to end up in a job that requires minimal brainpower. But at the same time I would not cope with a job that requires too much people contact and communication. I struggle to reply to emails and PMs, let alone speaking to people.

I will fight my position. Even if I don't know where my life is going, I want to do this course, I love psychopharmacology (and also pharmacology / physiology in general).

My tutor never even got training or information about autism.

I know that a lot of them are not standard university programs, but my main point (aside from pointing out that there are some "standard-university-style", normally-paced online programs -- ones that give you real university credit and real degrees both recognized and respected by other institutions and employers) is that you don't know SteelMaiden was asking for an "as you can manage it course" in the first place.



By saying "I've seen it before" you are directly contradicting your previous statement wherein you say you don't know what's going on. What you're doing is ASSUMING that SteelMaiden's situation is exactly like the things you have seen that end in the manner you describe -- which is a far cry from "I don't know for sure what's going on".

The arrogance of your statement amazes me and, quite frankly, pisses me off. People should not make assumptions like you're making -- particularly in the way that you are (i.e. without any meaningful, not-taken-back-immediately-after-being-provided acknowledgement that you are assuming things and don't actually have knowledge of some extremely important/relevent aspects of the situation); When wrong, as they very often are, assumptions (good, bad, or otherwise) can do a lot of damage.

I did get chucked of a degree course. I was not at all at fault. However, I ended up on a different course which was better and now I am in a better position academically than I would have been had I stayed on that course.

On the subject of the OU. I know of a lecturer at Oxford who did her bachelors with OU, so it is clear they do carry weight.

Good for you for standing up for yourself. You may face obstacles to traditional career paths, but that does not mean there is no place for you in your chosen field.



I'm happy to hear that. Entrance requirements and course-delivery format shouldn't determine the quality of education offered by a university.

Is this the only university in the greater London area for you to attend? I am appalled at the power of UK universities to exclude students with mental health issues. Keep fighting. You deserve a better life for yourself.