The empathy question - once more.
Empathy vs. sensitivity.
Often I am the only one in a company, who has caught and read an expression in somebodys face.
Often it makes a deep impact on me, whereas the others seem to forget/shake it off.
Is that sensitivity or empathy? or just being overwhelmed.
I´m told, that I have a hard time reading others and a difficulty with empathy, but I am more or less too open to other peoples emotional expressions, and I can be shut up with a very little grimace, so I won´t say, what I had prepared for, - say, at the psychologists.
It almost feels like fear. I go numb, meaningless and forget, what I was to say.
Anybody know this?
_________________
Femaline
Special Interest: Beethoven
I think that these issues of empathy, sympathy, sensitivity, over-stimulation, and so forth are terribly muddled, not only in meaning but in terms of which, how, and to what extent they are experienced by people on the spectrum.
This is just a hypothesis, but I bet you are sensitive to genuine moods/emotion, and simultaneously find it difficult to pick up on the little social nuances because they are not really genuine or deeply felt. And perhaps the genuine moods affect you emotionally, but, intellectually, you may not be so in tune because you can't intuitively know for sure which thoughts anyone's body movements or facial expressions represent.
+1
this!
I know I am very sensitive. I am told I lack empathy though. Perhaps it's because I don't naturally pick up on their B.S. deception and manipulative expectations?
I have ZERO problems with other animals, - just people.
I think if I lacked real sensitivity or maybe even real empathy, that I would notice the problem with animals as well.
What is also confusing is that sometimes people do not want empathy.
They want to pretend that they have successfully concealed their emotions.
I think aspies do have empathy but can't cope speedily enough with the contradiction,
like Hal the computer in 2001.
_________________
"Aspie: 65/200
NT: 155/200
You are very likely neurotypical"
Changed score with attention to health. Still have AS traits and also some difficulties.
Jensen ? This is something I have been trying to understand myself. One of my favorite WP users, Willard, has written on this topic several times. I had compiled some of his thoughts in my journal, and I include them below.
Empathy is not a feeling. Empathy is a social skill.
Sympathy is a feeling - the ability to resonate emotionally with a situation resembling something one has previously experienced him or herself.
Sympathy = knowing that another person is suffering and sharing their emotional distress, or resonating to their emotion - or even seeing someone joyful and excited and sharing their glee, like shouting and jumping up and down with them when they won something.
Empathy usually leads to Sympathy, but they are not exactly the same thing.
"Lacking Empathy" means that you might easily be around someone who is silently suffering or in emotional distress and not notice, because you just don't recognize the signals, or are so wrapped up in your own thoughts and priorities that you just don't register the signals, or even if you DO recognize their emotional state and don't know how to respond, or feel awkward about what you should do. THAT is a lack of empathy, because a neurotypical brain would know how to respond immediately, without even thinking about it.
Most people don't make the distinction between the two, but they are not the same thing.
EMPATHY is an interpersonal social skill.
SYMPATHY is recognizing another's emotional state and resonating in tune with that emotion. Seeing someone weeping does not require any subtle social skill to recognize or interpret.
Sympathy is a feeling.
Empathy is the ability to read nonverbal social cues and intuit or interpret what another person is thinking or feeling instinctively - and knowing how to respond appropriately.
Most people don't make the distinction between the two, but they are not the same thing.
Yes, but did that ability to read the cues and respond appropriately come naturally or from conditioning ?
...and what exactly would cause one person to more readily accept the conditioning as a primary reality, and another person to reject it, or only do it to avoid punishment?
"knowing how to respond appropriately"
Who decides what this is?
I suppose appropriate is whatever response a neurotypical person would like, but
it sounds kind of snotty to me.
_________________
"Aspie: 65/200
NT: 155/200
You are very likely neurotypical"
Changed score with attention to health. Still have AS traits and also some difficulties.
Who decides what this is?
I suppose appropriate is whatever response a neurotypical person would like, but
it sounds kind of snotty to me.
I think it was decided thousands of years ago by early hominid females.
At the time, the environment dictated that females having reproductive control was the only way to survive.
Now the rules are enforced by the mob.
Who decides what this is?
I suppose appropriate is whatever response a neurotypical person would like, but
it sounds kind of snotty to me.
I think it was decided thousands of years ago by early hominid females.
At the time, the environment dictated that females having reproductive control was the only way to survive.
Now the rules are enforced by the mob.
I am an early hominid female! But you make me think. This constant rebuff from NTs must be similar to what aspie males feel when they are looking for a mate. Yuck. Or when you are in business and you can't work out why customers reject an offer. Trouble is, they probably don't know themselves, so there is no point asking them.
With regard to your second to last line, the person with the least interest does tend to control the situation.
So it's like we, as aspies, are trying to "court" NTs (for a job, a benefit etc) and being in the majority, they aren't motivated to work out exactly what they want - they just know that we seem to suck somehow.
_________________
"Aspie: 65/200
NT: 155/200
You are very likely neurotypical"
Changed score with attention to health. Still have AS traits and also some difficulties.
+1
Starkid, this is very insightful. This isn't something I had thought of. I think this applies to me.
for AmethystRose.
Speeking of my own experience, but I believe it applies to everyone, without evidence that it does.
I believe I do generate emotions just like NT's. I also believe that I recieve emotions just like NT's. I say this because looking into somebody's eyes scares the hell out of me. It hits me like a bolt of lightening and I have to recoil. But for NT's, they look into each others eyes in order to read the other person. So based on this, and other antidotal evidence, I do beleive we recieve it.
The signal breaks down when it reaches the interpretive centres of our brain. Mine just goes "I don't recognise this signal, ignore it". Sometimes "Oh, I recognise this signal, send a message to "fight or flight" for imediate processing". And for the stronger ones I might get "OK, this is fear, we know what to do with this one, send it over to analysis for consideration".
I read the definitions above and just don't agree with them. It makes it seem as if empathy is a speed test designed to discover how fast one reacts to someone else's facial expressions. If it takes a little longer to react to these signals, does it really matter as empathy is the feeling and reaction to how the other person is feeling and then offering understanding and appreciation to how the other person is feeling. Don't understand how you separate the two words, "empathy" and "sympathy" from each other as they are both part of the same reaction. How you feel and how much response you make is an individual thing which you can't measure and only the reaction from the other person tells you whether you have made that connection or not. Hope in having this discussion, that no-one is saying that if you have AS, you can't connect with another human being.
Yes, a person, who seems to be in emotional agony may just as well have a stomach ache. I can´t actually know if I see an emotional expression or not. It is completely in my own imagination. It is my own emotions, that I see being reflected. (I only read bodylanguage in large stereotypes).
I guess, it is the normal function, which also NT´s have... recognition followed by sympathy according to Willard, but NT´s probably don´t internalize it. I have seen many signs of that.
Perhaps that is a filter?
Empathy: I may have a notion, that someone feels bad, but if I want to do something about it at all, I will be very careful not to come too close too soon. I wouldn´t like to impose.
Isn´t that empathy?
Or is it just being careful for own egotistical reasons?
_________________
Femaline
Special Interest: Beethoven


