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SteelMaiden
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12 Sep 2014, 1:22 pm

I've been told I have Autism and not Asperger's by my neurologist and psychiatrist. However I have a very high IQ. Does this make sense? Or am I just being confused? I thought Classic Autism apparently has an IQ cut-off of 70.

NB: I live in the UK which is not under the DSM-V but under ICD-10 which still has Asperger's Syndrome and Autism as separate diagnoses.


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Last edited by SteelMaiden on 12 Sep 2014, 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MehruneMath
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12 Sep 2014, 1:29 pm

SteelMaiden wrote:
I've been told I have Autism and not Asperger's by my neurologist and psychiatrist. However I have a very high IQ. Does this make sense? Or am I just being confused? I thought Classic Autism apparently has an IQ cut-off of 70.


An IQ less than 70 is considered to be mentally ret*d, and I do not believe this has anything to do with classic autism. An individual with classic autism could have an extremely high IQ. I want to go an make an appointment with psychologist soon to see if my assumptions are correct. My IQ is extremely abnormal; the last official IQ test I've taken gave me a score of 197.


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LokiofSassgard
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12 Sep 2014, 1:33 pm

I think it depends. I have an IQ that varies between 70 and 85, but I'm still considered as having classic autism on a more high-functioning end I guess.


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SteelMaiden
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12 Sep 2014, 1:34 pm

MehruneMath wrote:
An IQ less than 70 is considered to be mentally ret*d, and I do not believe this has anything to do with classic autism. An individual with classic autism could have an extremely high IQ.


Thanks that's what I was pondering. My IQ was recorded to be 160.


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MehruneMath
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12 Sep 2014, 1:38 pm

SteelMaiden wrote:
MehruneMath wrote:
An IQ less than 70 is considered to be mentally ret*d, and I do not believe this has anything to do with classic autism. An individual with classic autism could have an extremely high IQ.


Thanks that's what I was pondering. My IQ was recorded to be 160.


Which IQ test did you complete?

I have a 160 on the RIAS; which is the maximum. I'm asking because your IQ may be higher, and you may have hit the highest possible IQ on your test. My 197 is from the Stanford Binet Fifth Edition.


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Eloa
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12 Sep 2014, 1:42 pm

As far aI know it's rather a question of whether you had a speech delay or not to determine whether you are considered to have Asperger's or classic autism.
IQ is to determine whether you are high- or low-functioning.
Temple Grandin for example has classic autism, but is considered high-functioning.
Tito Rajarshi Mukhopadhyay instead has a very high IQ but is considered low-functioning.


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SteelMaiden
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12 Sep 2014, 1:49 pm

MehruneMath wrote:
Which IQ test did you complete?

I have a 160 on the RIAS; which is the maximum. I'm asking because your IQ may be higher, and you may have hit the highest possible IQ on your test. My 197 is from the Stanford Binet Fifth Edition.


WAIS-IV.


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SteelMaiden
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12 Sep 2014, 1:49 pm

Eloa wrote:
As far aI know it's rather a question of whether you had a speech delay or not to determine whether you are considered to have Asperger's or classic autism.
IQ is to determine whether you are high- or low-functioning.
Temple Grandin for example has classic autism, but is considered high-functioning.
Tito Rajarshi Mukhopadhyay instead has a very high IQ but is considered low-functioning.


Thanks for the information.


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12 Sep 2014, 2:06 pm

You're confusing two things. The diagnosis 'autistic disorder' (also called 'classic autism') includes individuals along a range of IQs; one could have the designation 'lower functioning autism', which is indeed used to denote people with an IQ below 70. Above 70, one would be considered as having 'high functioning autism'. It is mostly a colloquial label; a shorthand to apply functioning levels along a neat demarcation line. One could question its validity when one looks at people with the diagnosis autistic disorder on a case-to-case basis; the problems faced by 2 autistics with respective IQs of 60 and 80 might be more similar than those faced by an autistic with an IQ of 130. Furthermore, a significant number of autistics whose intelligence has been determined at below 70, are able to communicate their thoughts eloquently through less conventional means, such as TTS systems and online communication, which casts further doubt on the way intelligence is traditionally measured.

'Asperger syndrome' is, in the DSM up until it's 4th edition and still in other diagnostic manuals, a pervasive development disorder that is strongly associated with autism, but differs from it mainly due to a lack of a significant speech delay during childhood. As its symptoms are very similar to those with the diagnosis 'autistic disorder' with average to above-average IQs, it has been thought by many to be essentially the same disorder as high functioning autism.

TL;DR:
-autistic disorder is classic autism
-classic autism is not necessarily low functioning autism
-high functioning autism and Asperger syndrome share many symptomatic similarities

If you used to think you might have Asperger syndrome, but the neurologist/psychiatrist has diagnosed you with autistic disorder, it's not all that strange. You can contact your psychiatrist to ask them why they came to the diagnosis of autistic disorder. I was diagnosed with autistic disorder, and I have experienced no significant impairment in my speech development; however other factors determined the diagnosis- I have neglected to ask the psychiatrist which factors, but it's no longer of importance.

EDIT: in other words, what Eloa said. And much more concisely than I did, I should add. :P


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Last edited by CyclopsSummers on 12 Sep 2014, 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sharkattack
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12 Sep 2014, 2:08 pm

SteelMaiden wrote:
I've been told I have Autism and not Asperger's by my neurologist and psychiatrist. However I have a very high IQ. Does this make sense? Or am I just being confused? I thought Classic Autism apparently has an IQ cut-off of 70.

NB: I live in the UK which is not under the DSM-V but under ICD-10 which still has Asperger's Syndrome and Autism as separate diagnoses.



I was thrown on a computer course in 2012 after being made redundant in 2011.

I was bullied in the job for years and on the course I did not mix with anybody.

In April 2012 I put my traits into a Google and Aspergers syndrome came back instantly.

I found and joined this board and leaned about the Aspergers Autism debate.

In March 2013 I got a formal diagnosis of Autism Spectrum Disorder.

Functioning levels across the spectrum is a complicated picture and some people diagnosed with so called classic Autism function higher them some people Diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome.
Different professions interpret the DSM 4 in different ways.


That is why we have DSM 5.

Functioning levels in a person can change over their livers they might gain skills and confidence or go the other way so your starting point will not be your ending point.

I read time and again the only difference between classic autism and Aspergers is that classic Autism has a speech delay in childhood hence the early diagnosis.

The DSM 5 tried to clear up this confusion Autism is a collection of symptoms and each one can be different from person to person.


I am totally convinced of this the difference between Classic Autism and Aspergers was a vague undefined line that changed depending on who was doing your assessment.

You have Autism Spectrum Disorder like me.

I have leaned so much on this board the so called experts don't come close.

I will give you an opinion that matters and I won't charge you for it.

Get on with your life and the people here on Wrong Planet including me will help in any way we can. :)



Eloa
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12 Sep 2014, 2:26 pm

CyclopsSummers wrote:
You're confusing two things. The diagnosis 'autistic disorder' (also called 'classic autism') includes individuals along a range of IQs; one could have the designation 'lower functioning autism', which is indeed used to denote people with an IQ below 70. Above 70, one would be considered as having 'high functioning autism'. It is mostly a colloquial label; a shorthand to apply functioning levels along a neat demarcation line. One could question its validity when one looks at people with the diagnosis autistic disorder on a case-to-case basis; the problems faced by 2 autistics with respective IQs of 60 and 80 might be more similar than those faced by an autistic with an IQ of 130. Furthermore, a significant number of autistics whose intelligence has been determined at below 70, are able to communicate their thoughts eloquently through less conventional means, such as TTS systems and online communication, which casts further doubt on the way intelligence is traditionally measured.

'Asperger syndrome' is, in the DSM up until it's 4th edition and still in other diagnostic manuals, a pervasive development disorder that is strongly associated with autism, but differs from it mainly due to a lack of a significant speech delay during childhood. As its symptoms are very similar to those with the diagnosis 'autistic disorder' with average to above-average IQs, it has been thought by many to be essentially the same disorder as high functioning autism.

TL;DR:
-autistic disorder is classic autism
-classic autism is not necessarily low functioning autism
-high functioning autism and Asperger syndrome share many symptomatic similarities

If you used to think you might have Asperger syndrome, but the neurologist/psychiatrist has diagnosed you with autistic disorder, it's not all that strange. You can contact your psychiatrist to ask them why they came to the diagnosis of autistic disorder. I was diagnosed with autistic disorder, and I have experienced no significant impairment in my speech development; however other factors determined the diagnosis- I have neglected to ask the psychiatrist which factors, but it's no longer of importance.

EDIT: in other words, what Eloa said. And much more concisely than I did, I should add. :P


CyclopsSummers, your explanation provides much more information than mine.
Which were the other factors which determined you being diagnosed with autistic disorder?


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SteelMaiden
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12 Sep 2014, 2:29 pm

That is very helpful, the descriptions. Thank you.

I need support workers on a regular basis and I don't function as well (I know that functioning "well" is a bit of a misnomer though) as people I know who have Asperger's.


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Last edited by SteelMaiden on 12 Sep 2014, 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MehruneMath
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12 Sep 2014, 2:30 pm

sharkattack wrote:
SteelMaiden wrote:
I've been told I have Autism and not Asperger's by my neurologist and psychiatrist. However I have a very high IQ. Does this make sense? Or am I just being confused? I thought Classic Autism apparently has an IQ cut-off of 70.

NB: I live in the UK which is not under the DSM-V but under ICD-10 which still has Asperger's Syndrome and Autism as separate diagnoses.



I was thrown on a computer course in 2012 after being made redundant in 2011.

I was bullied in the job for years and on the course I did not mix with anybody.

In April 2012 I put my traits into a Google and Aspergers syndrome came back instantly.

I found and joined this board and leaned about the Aspergers Autism debate.

In March 2013 I got a formal diagnosis of Autism Spectrum Disorder.

Functioning levels across the spectrum is a complicated picture and some people diagnosed with so called classic Autism function higher them some people Diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome.
Different professions interpret the DSM 4 in different ways.


That is why we have DSM 5.

Functioning levels in a person can change over their livers they might gain skills and confidence or go the other way so your starting point will not be your ending point.

I read time and again the only difference between classic autism and Aspergers is that classic Autism has a speech delay in childhood hence the early diagnosis.

The DSM 5 tried to clear up this confusion Autism is a collection of symptoms and each one can be different from person to person.


I am totally convinced of this the difference between Classic Autism and Aspergers was a vague undefined line that changed depending on who was doing your assessment.

You have Autism Spectrum Disorder like me.

I have leaned so much on this board the so called experts don't come close.

I will give you an opinion that matters and I won't charge you for it.

Get on with your life and the people here on Wrong Planet including me will help in any way we can. :)


I would greatly appreciate it if you could go to my thread here and let me know what you make of it.
I believe I may have Aspergers


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sharkattack
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12 Sep 2014, 2:34 pm

MehruneMath wrote:
sharkattack wrote:
SteelMaiden wrote:
I've been told I have Autism and not Asperger's by my neurologist and psychiatrist. However I have a very high IQ. Does this make sense? Or am I just being confused? I thought Classic Autism apparently has an IQ cut-off of 70.

NB: I live in the UK which is not under the DSM-V but under ICD-10 which still has Asperger's Syndrome and Autism as separate diagnoses.



I was thrown on a computer course in 2012 after being made redundant in 2011.

I was bullied in the job for years and on the course I did not mix with anybody.

In April 2012 I put my traits into a Google and Aspergers syndrome came back instantly.

I found and joined this board and leaned about the Aspergers Autism debate.

In March 2013 I got a formal diagnosis of Autism Spectrum Disorder.

Functioning levels across the spectrum is a complicated picture and some people diagnosed with so called classic Autism function higher them some people Diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome.
Different professions interpret the DSM 4 in different ways.


That is why we have DSM 5.

Functioning levels in a person can change over their livers they might gain skills and confidence or go the other way so your starting point will not be your ending point.

I read time and again the only difference between classic autism and Aspergers is that classic Autism has a speech delay in childhood hence the early diagnosis.

The DSM 5 tried to clear up this confusion Autism is a collection of symptoms and each one can be different from person to person.


I am totally convinced of this the difference between Classic Autism and Aspergers was a vague undefined line that changed depending on who was doing your assessment.

You have Autism Spectrum Disorder like me.

I have leaned so much on this board the so called experts don't come close.

I will give you an opinion that matters and I won't charge you for it.

Get on with your life and the people here on Wrong Planet including me will help in any way we can. :)


I would greatly appreciate it if you could go to my thread here and let me know what you make of it.
I believe I may have Aspergers


Reading your thread now.



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12 Sep 2014, 2:45 pm

Well I have actually just started the process of the autism evaluation, and I just have to wait a month or so before I do the first part, which is the IQ test. I asked the psychologist what the purpose of it was, and she basically said that normally in an evaluation of someone suspected to have classic autism, it was to see where their intelligence actually lies, just to get a better idea of how to help them etc. For me, she said it would be a similar thing, except when I told her how I did on my ACT (nearly perfect) she said it would be more just to see how high I get, which I am very curious to see; I don't feel I have been given a truly accurate test.

So I don't really know if the IQ has any official requirement for what diagnosis a person gets, but I don't even think it affects whether they are high-functioning or not. It is probably more common for higher IQ's to be associated with the higher-functioning individuals, but I see no reason that someone lower on the spectrum couldn't have a very high IQ. The ability to function isn't a direct result of IQ; it is more just the ability to cope and generally live independently. If functioning was a result of IQ I probably would have not learned about autism, as I would have had no reason to seek out help. I am extremely intelligent, but off on my own I had a very hard time, and I wasn't even fully independent; at university I was living in a shared dorm and had a meal plan. I became very overwhelmed, and in the end I stayed in my dorm and didn't attend my classes or social events. Yet I took and passed almost all of my finals, because I could learn the information from just reading the textbook, or even deriving the equations and information I needed from known knowledge during the test. I am sure I have a very high IQ, and I am high-functioning enough that the DSM-IV would say I have Asperger's.

Well... to be honest, I don't know if my speech was delayed, and that seems to be the biggest thing in differentiating between the two, so I could be with classic autism after all. According to my mother, it was delayed, which actually caused my grandma to wonder if it was autism at one point; but I'm not sure if I failed to meet many speech milestones, or if it was more that I just couldn't communicate with speech, despite having the ability to speak. That would explain why my mom disagreed with my grandma. When I ask her about it she said I never talked. She said I started being able to speak in sentences at 3, so that is normal, but that I didn't ever do it hardly, and I am wondering if she just means I could repeat the sentences I heard.


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12 Sep 2014, 5:36 pm

@MehruneMath: The Stanford-Binet Scale measure the IQ up to 141. I'm sure the score of 197 is a raw score which is translated as an IQ of 131.