I don't stim! Is this normal?

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I have seen a video on stimming and seen people do it on video, but I don't actually do any of that. Now I am diagnosed and all that, but sometimes I get comments and replies that make me feel like... I'm not a proper AS or something... I don't stim, and I have absolutely no problem with lying or dishonesty whatsoever (though I do have a sense of justice that is quite strongly developed). Some of my personal characteristics are quite different from other people on the same spectrum. Is this unusual? And does anyone else experience this?

Are you sure that you don't stim and it's just not in-your-face type stims? I think not stimming at all on the spectrum is pretty unusual. I have a few things that go against stereotypical AS. For one, I've had pretty big issues with compulsive lying since 13ish.

I'm no mathematical whiz and no one will ever accuse me of being hyper-organized. No one or very few people fulfill all symptoms of ANY diagnoses. Until recently, I never heard of stimming - I only knew that sometimes when I would get excited or anxious I would start flapping my hands and not even know I was doing it - unless someone would point it out and very few people would do that.

Don't worry, I am not typical AS either. I don't stim all the time either. I do sometimes but not all hours of the day. I have gone through periods where I would be doing it more often but that was in school. I think we sometimes get so caught up in the stereotypes we even doubt ourselves about being on the spectrum.

Also NTs stim too so I don't know any NT who has never done it. Stimming is part of human nature.

I stim some, but I don't stim all of the time. If I get really excited, I'll clap my hands like a seal and laugh really weirdly. Other times, I do flap my arms and rock, yet this doesn't happen everyday. I guess I'm not helping, am I? Everyone stims differently is what I'm trying to say. Sometimes, I can be tapping my stylus on my iPad or twirling it around. It doesn't have to be typical stims. Yesterday, at the VA with my dad, I was dealing with a mild sensory overload. I started tapping my phone against the visor of my dad's hat, which helped ease the tension for me some.

I actually don't have AS at all and only have a high functioning form of autism.

Charloz, I figured you did not stim. I also wonder if you have sensory overload. I am not commenting on your diagnosis because I am not a AS diagnostic specialist. I do think, however, that for someone who does not stim, and if you don't experience sensory overload, which you have not mentioned that you experience, your comments on the other thread are particularly harsh and unfair. I do believe that you meant well and that you really wanted to be helpful when you said that you advocate that Autistic people should refrain from stimming in public but that they should work hard to look normal because you are able to do that, but if you have never experienced what it is like to have your body respond to stimuli by flapping or rocking, you really have no idea what it is like for these people. You can't possibly understand that sometimes it is impossible to control these movements. You can't possibly know how it feels to try to refrain from releasing the implosion going on inside when you are trying to hold back rocking or flapping or curling up into a ball because you are so incredibly overwhelmed with sensory stimuli. If you don't know what this feels like, you should not tell people who feel this that they should refrain from doing what helps them because you think they need to look and act like normal people who don't suffer like this.

And some people flap their hands and rock or moan in response to joy. Asking them not to do that is like asking someone not to smile. That is harsh.

In the stimming video it did mention that certain types of stimming is normal, like tapping your finger or foot, stuff like that, and that's the sort of thing I tend to do. Otherwise, I have never rocked backwards and forwards, even as a toddler. And I don't flap my hands either. Once I tried rocking backwards and forwards to see what it felt like, but I ended up feeling nauseous from doing it.

Also I can lie when I have to. Usually I like to be honest because I like to be a trusting person, but I don't find it difficult to lie if I have to. I even remember lying as a little kid, to get myself out of trouble. I bet that's unusual for an Aspie kid. And no I wasn't influenced by other kids to lie. I thought up lies myself.

What is Asperger's Syndrome?

Charloz, if you are questioning your diagnosis, here is a list directly from Tony Attwood's website that can help you. Of course, everyone on the Spectrum is different and not everyone will have 100% of all the traits and symptoms on the list but if you don't have any of them or if you don't have them to a degree that impairs your life, or you only have a small handful in a very non life disruptive way, you might want to be reevaluated. I can also post the latest diagnostic criteria for you, a copy of the page from the DSM 5. But look at this list and see if it helps you figure yourself out.

What is Asperger's Syndrome?

Children with Asperger?s syndrome have the following characteristics:

Delayed social maturity and social reasoning.
Difficulty making friends and often teased by other children.
Difficulty with the communication and control of emotions.
Unusual language abilities that include advanced vocabulary and syntax but delayed conversation skills, unusual prosody and a tendency to be pedantic.
A fascination with a topic that is unusual in intensity or focus.
An unusual profile of learning abilities.
A need for assistance with some self-help and organizational skills.
Clumsiness in terms of gait and coordination.
Sensitivity to specific sounds, aromas, textures or touch.



The advantages of a diagnosis can be:

Being recognized as having genuine difficulties coping with experiences that others find easy and enjoyable.
A positive change in other people?s expectations, acceptance and support.
Compliments rather than criticism with regard to social competence.
Acknowledgement of confusion and exhaustion in social situations.
Schools can access resources to help the child and class teacher.
An adult can access specialized support services for employment and further education.
Greater self-understanding, self-advocacy and better decision making with regard to careers, friendships and relationships.
A sense of identification with a valued ?culture?.
The person no longer feels stupid, defective or insane.


Characteristics of Asperger?s Syndrome



Theory of Mind

Effects of impaired Theory of Mind abilities in daily life
Difficulties reading the messages in someone?s eyes.
A tendency to make a literal interpretation of what someone says.
A tendency to be considered disrespectful and rude.
Remarkable honesty.
Delay in the development of the art of persuasion, compromise and conflict resolution.
A different form of introspection and self-consciousness.
Problems knowing when something may cause embarrassment.
A longer time to process social information, due to using intelligence rather than intuition.
Physical and emotional exhaustion from socializing.



The Understanding and Expression of Emotions

The emotional maturity of children with Asperger?s syndrome is usually at least three years behind that of their peers.
There can be a limited vocabulary to describe emotions and a lack of subtlety and variety in emotional expression.
There is an association between Asperger?s syndrome and the development of an additional or secondary mood disorder, including depression, anxiety disorder, and problems with anger management and the communication of love and affection.
People with Asperger?s syndrome appear vulnerable to feeling depressed, with about one in three children and adults with Asperger?s syndrome having a clinical depression.
We do not know how common anger management problems are with children and adults with Asperger?s syndrome, but we do know that when problems with the expression of anger occur, the person with Asperger?s syndrome and family members are very keen to reduce the frequency, intensity and consequences of anger.
A person with Asperger?s syndrome may enjoy a very brief and low intensity expression of affection, and become confused or overwhelmed when greater levels of expression are experienced or expected.
The emotion management for children and adults with Asperger?s syndrome can be conceptualized as a problem with ?energy management?, namely, an excessive amount of emotional energy and difficulty controlling and releasing the energy constructively.



Special Interests

One of the distinguishing characteristics between a hobby and a special interest that is of clinical significance is an abnormality in the intensity or focus of the interest.
Unusual or special interests can develop as early as age two to three years and may commence with a preoccupation with parts of objects such as spinning the wheels of toy cars, or manipulating electrical switches.
The next stage may be a fixation on something neither human nor toy, or a fascination with a specific category of objects and the acquisition of as many examples as possible.
A subsequent stage can be the collection of facts and figures about a specific topic.
Much of the knowledge associated with the interest is self-directed and self-taught.
In the pre-teenage and teenage years the interests can evolve to include electronics and computers, fantasy literature, science fiction and sometimes a fascination with a particular person.
There appear to be two main categories of interest: collections, and the acquisition of knowledge on a specific topic or concept.
Some girls with Asperger?s syndrome can develop a special interest in fiction rather than facts.
Sometimes the special interest is animals but can be to such an intensity that the child acts being the animal.
The special interest has several functions:
To overcome anxiety.
To provide pleasure.
To provide relaxation.
To ensure greater predictability and certainty in life.
To help understand the physical world.
To create an alternative world.
To create a sense of identity.
To facilitate conversation and indicate intellectual ability.
The interest can be a source of enjoyment, knowledge, self-identity and self-esteem that can be constructively used by parents, teachers and therapists.
When one considers the attributes associated with the special interests, it is important to consider not only the benefits to the person with Asperger?s syndrome, but also the benefits to society.



Cognitive Abilities

Some young children with Asperger?s syndrome start school with academic abilities above their grade level.
There seem to be more children with Asperger?s syndrome than one might expect at the extremes of cognitive ability.
Profile of learning abilities at school
At school, teachers soon recognize that the child has a distinctive learning style, being talented in understanding the logical and physical world, noticing details and remembering and arranging facts in a systematic fashion.
Children with Asperger?s syndrome can be easily distracted, especially in the classroom. When problem solving, they appear to have a ?one-track mind? and a fear of failure.
As the child progresses through the school grades, teachers identify problems with organizational abilities, especially with regard to homework assignments and essays.
If the child with Asperger?s syndrome is not successful socially at school, then academic success becomes more important as the primary motivation to attend school and for the development of self-esteem.



Movement and Coordination

There is an impression of clumsiness in at least 60 per cent of children with Asperger?s syndrome, but several studies using specialized assessment procedures have indicated that specific expressions of movement disturbance occur in almost all children with Asperger?s syndrome.

When walking or running, the child?s coordination can be immature, and adults with Asperger?s syndrome may have a strange, sometimes idiosyncratic gait that lacks fluency and efficiency.
Some children with Asperger?s syndrome can be immature in the development of the ability to catch, throw and kick a ball.
Poorly planned movement and slower mental preparation time may be a more precise description than simply being clumsy.
Teachers and parents can become quite concerned about difficulties with handwriting.
The movement disturbance does not appear to affect some sporting activities such as swimming, using the trampoline, playing golf and horse riding.



Sensory Sensitivity

Some adults with Asperger?s syndrome consider their sensory sensitivity has a greater impact on their daily lives than problems with making friends, managing emotions and finding appropriate employment.
The most common sensitivity is to very specific sounds but there can also be sensitivity to tactile experiences, light intensity, the taste and texture of food and specific aromas. There can be an under or over reaction to the experience of pain and discomfort, and the sense of balance, movement perception and body orientation can be unusual.
The child with sensory sensitivity becomes hypervigilant, tense and distractible in sensory stimulating environments such as the classroom, unsure when the next painful sensory experience will occur.
We know that the signs are more conspicuous in early childhood and gradually diminish during adolescence, but can remain a lifelong characteristic for some adults with Asperger?s syndrome.


Tony's Perspective

From my clinical experience I consider that children and adults with Aspergers Syndrome have a different, not defective, way of thinking.

The person usually has a strong desire to seek knowledge, truth and perfection with a different set of priorities than would be expected with other people. There is also a different perception of situations and sensory experiences. The overriding priority may be to solve a problem rather than satisfy the social or emotional needs of others.

The person values being creative rather than co-operative.

The person with Aspergers syndrome may perceive errors that are not apparent to others, giving considerable attention to detail, rather than noticing the ?big picture?.

The person is usually renowned for being direct, speaking their mind and being honest and determined and having a strong sense of social justice.

The person may actively seek and enjoy solitude, be a loyal friend and have a distinct sense of humour.

However, the person with Aspergers Syndrome can have difficulty with the management and expression of emotions.

Children and adults with Aspergers syndrome may have levels of anxiety, sadness or anger that indicate a secondary mood disorder. There may also be problems expressing the degree of love and affection expected by others.

Although, I have stimmed all my life without knowing it most of the time or until very recently had any idea what it is - I would still prefer not to draw any unwanted attention to myself. My psychiatrist recommended that I acquire some kind of comforting fiddle object like a stress ball where I can dissipate this energy without suppressing it - but do so in a less demonstrative manner. It does seem to work for me and it is something I am comfortable with.

Here is a copy of the DSM IV diagnostic criteria which is not the latest, the latest is the DSM V. I will try to find that and post it also.

Table 2.2 Diagnostic criteria for Asperger?s disorder according to
DSM-IV (TR) (American Psychiatric Association 2000)
A. Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:
1. marked impairment in the use of multiple non-verbal behaviours such as eye-to-eye gaze,
facial expression, body postures, and gestures to regulate social interaction
2. failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level
3. a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other
people (e.g. by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other
people)
4. lack of social or emotional reciprocity.
B. Restricted repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behaviour, interests, and activities, as manifested by at least
one of the following:
1. encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest
that is abnormal either in intensity or focus
2. apparently inflexible adherence to specific, non-functional routines or rituals
3. stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g. hand or finger flapping or twisting, or
complex whole-body movements)
4. persistent preoccupation with parts of objects.
C. The disturbance causes clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas
of functioning.
D. There is no clinically significant general delay in language (e.g. single words used by age two years,
communicative phrases used by age three years).
E. There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in the development of age-appropriate
self-help skills, adaptive behaviour (other than in social interaction), and curiosity about the environment
in childhood.
F. Criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or Schizophrenia.

The inclusion of other important or transitory characteristics
The diagnostic criteria of the DSM-IV do not include a description of the unusual characteristics
in the pragmatic aspects of language originally described by Asperger and
portrayed in the clinical literature, namely the pedantic use of language and unusual
prosody. The DSM-IV criteria also fail to make adequate reference to problems with
sensory perception and integration, especially auditory sensitivity and hypersensitivity
to light intensity, tactile experiences and aromas. These aspects of Asperger?s syndrome
can have a profound effect on the person?s quality of life. The criteria also exclude reference
to motor clumsiness, which was described by Asperger and has been substantiated
in the research literature (Green et al. 2002).
The diagnostic criteria in the DSM-IV can also be criticized for emphasizing characteristics
that can be rare or transitory. The criteria refer to ?stereotyped and repetitive
motor mannerisms (e.g. hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body
movements)?,

Diagnostic criteria for adults
The diagnostic criteria in the AAA are the same as in the DSM-IV (see page 41), with the
addition of ten criteria based on our understanding of the characteristics of Asperger?s
syndrome in adults rather than children. In section A of the DSM-IV criteria (qualitative
impairment in social interaction) there is the additional criterion:
Difficulties in understanding social situations and other people?s thoughts and
feelings.
In section B of the DSM-IV criteria (restricted repetitive and stereotyped patterns of
behaviour, interests and activities) there is the additional criterion:
Tendency to think of issues as being black and white (e.g. in politics or morality),
rather than considering multiple perspectives in a flexible way.

In the AAA diagnostic criteria there are two sections that are in the DSM-IV criteria for
autism but not the DSM-IV criteria for Asperger?s syndrome. These two sections are
justifiably included in the AAA criteria, being based on the profile of communication
and imagination abilities identified in research studies and from clinical experience, as
being characteristic of adults with Asperger?s syndrome, namely:

Qualitative impairments in verbal or non-verbal communication:
1. Tendency to turn any conversation back to self or own topic of interest.
2. Marked impairment in the ability to initiate or sustain a conversation
with others. Cannot see the point of superficial social contact, niceties, or
passing time with others, unless there is a clear discussion point/debate
or activity.
3. Pedantic style of speaking, or inclusion of too much detail.
4. Inability to recognize when the listener is interested or bored. Even if
the person has been told not to talk about their particular obsessive topic
for too long, this difficulty may be evident if other topics arise.
5. Frequent tendency to say things without considering the emotional
impact on the listener (faux pas).
The diagnostic criteria of the AAA require three or more symptoms of qualitative
impairment in verbal or non-verbal communication, and at least one symptom from the
following impairments in imagination:
Impairments in imagination:
1. Lack of varied, spontaneous make believe play appropriate to
developmental level.
2. Inability to tell, write or generate spontaneous, unscripted or
unplagiarised fiction.
3. Either lack of interest in fiction (written, or drama) appropriate to
developmental level or interest in fiction is restricted to its possible basis
in fact (e.g. science fiction, history, technical aspects of film).

Here is a link to a copy of the page of the DSM 5 with the diagnostic criteria on it. ASDogGeek had posted this on a previous thread last year.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt235436.html

Hopefully the list and the two diagnostic criteria will help you understand better and if you feel you need to get reevaluated by a clinician I would recommend you do that if it would give you peace of mind and understanding about yourself. Here on WP we are neither qualified nor allowed to diagnose. We can only share our life experiences and how our specific situations have affected us.

But again, in all fairness, I think it is best not to tell people that they should act and look normal for the "sake of helping Autism have a better rep". This is really hurtful and if you have not experienced the things that cause people to act as they do, then you have no idea what it is like for them especially if some of those things happen involuntarily.