Ever hear this phrase, " Autistics never lie or engage

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make believe?"

I actually remember hearing those exact words in a documentary sometime in the early 90's.

I do actually think that most people with autism do find lying more distressing than neurotypical people and are more confounded when lied to than neurotypical people. But that is not the same as saying that someone with autism cannot lie or never lies. Do not people with autism also engage in make believe - although perhaps is a somewhat different way than neurotypical people?

Where did these ideas come from?

I have seen people with high functioning autism lie to NTs. They were pretty arrogant people with high functioning autism, though.
The most of "make believe" I've seen was my coworker when I cashiered at a fast food restaurant. He said at home he'd imagine all of us in some kind of "reality show." Whether the reality show was just things that happened on a daily basis or sensationalized Jersey Shore crap, I don't know.

I've read that before, yes.

In terms of lying, I think it's true that autistic children lie less than non-autistic children. I'm not sure I'd extend that to adulthood though. I've been told, and it does seem to be true from my personal, non-scientific experience, that autistic children lack theory of mind. That is to say, they think everyone knows what they know. So if that's true, then it follows that they would not bother lying, because how can you "lie" if the other person knows what is true? The other aspect that probably affects more adults than children, is that NTs tell a lot of white lies throughout the day. Even with a simple question like, "How are you?", we're usually pretending we care- it's essentially a lie because we don't. Also the answer to that question ("Fine, thanks", or "Very well, thanks") tends to be a lie also. That's stuff that I think adults with ASD tend to not do as much. That's not to say they are incapable of lying or never wanted to lie, or anything of the sort. Like I said, this is just my interpretation of where this idea came from from what I've read and seen.

In terms of make believe play, one of the listed signs of autism in a young child is restricted play/lack of imaginative play. What they mean by that is, kids with autism tend to not act out adult actions as much I think. Non-autistic children will pick up a play food set, and have a pretend tea party, feed their teddies, pour the pretend tea and pretend to drink it, etc. My autistic kids would not do that. One of my kids would line up the food items, and the other one just wouldn't be interested at all. Another example is a telephone: non-autistic children pretend to talk on the phone. My autistic kids would never pretend to talk on the phone. We had a phone like this , and my one kid used to open and close the eyes on it incessantly, but that's it. My last example is toy cars. Non-autistic children make the cars drive around. My autistic kids, one would line them up, the other would spin the wheels. So I think there is definitely a difference in the use of the toys, and I think it seems to be related to social or adult pretend play. My kids also don't imitate. That seems to me to be directly related; they don't imitate adults, whereas most NT kids will imitate adults. But I'm not sure that that means they don't "imagine". I think they do imagine things, it's just not the typical thing to imagine? I'm not really sure how to define it, but I do see a difference.

Edited to add link to telephone.

Last edited by WelcomeToHolland on 28 Sep 2014, 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Some people with autism have a very strong sense of justice and responsibility, which can lead to a dislike of lying. However what is justice and what is not depends on one's personal perception of things. I for one have absolutely zero qualms about lying, and I am sure plenty of AS people feel the same way. There's an awful lot of generalizations going around and misconceptions based on NT people getting thing mixed up or out of context.

As for make belief, that's nonsense! A lot of AS people have a world of their own in which to retreat or escape. We are tremendously imaginative and often engage in a wide variety of creative endeavors. If there's one thing an autistic person does not lack, it's imagination, as imagination for many is the only thing keeping us going. Imagination and the hope of making our imagination reality.

My husband has to work pretty hard to lie, but in general he won't lie and can't be bothered to do the white lie thing. Also a lot of lying requires a mental/ verbal filter that he just doesn't have.

But he does say a lot of things that just aren't true. But I think he believes them in the moment or is simply mistaken

I've gotten into huge fights with my NT "best friend" because he lied to me/ deceived me and i become very frustrated when i see him use "white lies".In fact, i'm currently not talking to him because he's pissed at me bacause i'm pissed that he lied to me. As for me, i don't generally lie unless its to my mother. In that case i become an almost compulsive liar. (although that may just have to do with our not-so-amazing relationship)

Yes, I am constantly hearing about how people on the spectrum cannot and do not lie. I even hear it often from other people on the spectrum because they themselves are avid truth-tellers. Personally, I've extensive history w/ issues involving compulsive lying which tied into make believe. Some of the lies arose due to great shame, but most of them just originated because I'd be daydreaming different versions of events and then I'd end up telling my made up version to others as reality. The intent wasn't usually to deceive, but it's lying nonetheless.

I lie sometimes, and I used to engage in make-believe all the time when I was a kid, yet it's pretty clear-cut I'm somewhere on the spectrum. How else do you explain sensory sensitivities, an early-childhood speech delay, a predisposition to literal thinking, and special interests?

I can lie, but it is rarely worth the effort. It is much simpler to tell to truth instead of trying to keep the pretend scenarios straight.

I remember being in the third grade when during recess one of the kids wanted to pretend we were being chased by monsters. I looked for the monsters and could not see any. He coached me into understanding what pretending was. Blurt out a preposterous scenario and then act out an over the top reaction to it. Lots of work, and not much fun.

It's difficult for me to lie. I'm not very good at it.

If that's the case for other autistics, then it would make sense that we might not lie just because it doesn't usually succeed.

I do say things that are not true on occasion when my communication gets messed up and I say things that fit into the pattern instead of things I actually want to communicate, but I don't call that lying because the intent is not to deceive. It's just messed-up communication.

I find it difficult to tell a direct lie, but I have no problem with red herrings or to lie by omission.

Lies, because I lie all the time.

Often difficult, but not impossible.
There are strong aversions.

An inability to do make believe would preclude at least 95% of social interaction, because almost everyone operates through an identity.

What do you mean? Intention to deceive is practically the definition of lying. How could you have been lying if you had no intention to deceive?

Yes OP, I certainly have heard and read this countless times. My two cents worth: it is dehumanising, patronising and isolating.

It seems to me that two entirely separate issues are confounded, ie run together as if they were one, by these ignorant commentators.

Issue 1: They have heard somewhere that many ASD people have a general commitment to honesty as a primary personal value - that often (and this has been true of me) an ASD person's commitment to the truth, and the telling of it, is of greater importance than to the social niceties which tend to cloak or distort a lot of human communication. We make great whistleblowers, often at heavy personal cost...

Issue 2: They have made a huge assumptive leap in their own heads that the above equates to: "people on the ASD spectrum can't lie"
Fact is that all members of the human race, with very rare exceptions, have told lies or will do so;
Fact is that ASD people are part of the human race.
Ergo: ASD people, being part of the whole human race, are perfectly capable of lying, though it is still a choice, as for non ASD people.

So, in my view, the ignorant statement that "Autistic people can't lie" though it may be couched in sympathetic language is essentially dehumanising, --- a kind of "they-are-not-fully-human" or "they are a category of sub-human" stereotyping not based in fact. The old them and us attitude is divisive, unhelpful and stigmatising; but Erving Goffman said it first and said it best, I think, in his books.

Last edited by B19 on 29 Sep 2014, 7:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

I lie, but not nearly as much as most people