Do you self-reference?

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I have observed animals that have had mind viruses downloaded (intentionally and otherwise) to them from their owners, and thus they serve their owners' identity.

Hierarchies in nature that are based on survival in a physical environment are different from those that exist in an environment of imagined ideas.

If your post was intended to use example to validate identities to me, then it's not working.

I also think it unfortunate that the intent of the poll is not clear to everyone.

I started this thread in order to gather information, and not to go into lengthy explanations.
I don't start many threads, but some of the responses here indicate that my posting is somehow threatening or uncomfortable for some and that I should refrain.
I do know that people are extremely sensitive and protective when it comes to their identities and their perception of reality. I had hoped people here would be more open minded about such things.

This is a really interesting topic, but I'm not sure how to answer the poll.

In my experience, almost nothing makes people madder than having someone contradict their perception of themselves.

Maybe he just needs to lay out this concept of self reference more in plain English? Instead of a technical explanation of the concept giving simple examples? It helps to apprehend a subject when you are trying to comprehend it. Sadly when people don't understand something they often assume that the speaker is trying to establish his/her intelligence. And I wish that amongst folks in this kind of community that we could be a little more understanding that others here are simply passionate about diverse and complicated subjects, instead of deriding the OP in this thread like someone already has.

Last edited by Lukecash12 on 25 Oct 2014, 8:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

I wish that if people are not open minded about a discussion, that they would at least leave it alone, rather than intruding and making a lot of negative comments.

I really enjoy your posts olympiadis, but when I see the way other people respond to you, my anxiety levels go up.

Last edited by Sweetleaf on 25 Oct 2014, 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Well, thank god it wasn't me >_>.



I failed to notice that my perception of myself was being contradicted by this thread.

Last edited by NiceCupOfTea on 25 Oct 2014, 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Why is it a belief that their identity is real? Of course its not a solid/physical thing but I am pretty sure it is a real thing since people have identities. Also I have autism and I do usually recognize peoples identities and not refuse to validate or reinforce it especially since usually people have reason for whatever identity they have and I find it better to have respect for other people rather than looking down my nose at them if they have an identity I don't share.

Also I treat NTs just like equals as I am not superior to other people, that is just a conceited belief....but I do that with still recognizing their identity. I mean identities people have can actually make it easier to deal with people in some ways, like if someone dresses in a way that makes their music taste obvious then if I like similar music then it makes for conversation material unless of course they are just wearing like a metal t-shirt cause they think it looks cool actually have not ran into many people doing that. I find the idea that identities do not exist to be way more confusing than rationalizing things with including that part of human existence in my perspective.

Let's use some hypothetical examples then:

You are a member of a company. But physically speaking the company is just another group of people and "jackson hewitt" itself isn't a physical thing. You may be a "tax preparer" but in all reality that is just something that you do, what you are is a human.

You also have a bank account. But physically speaking you are not a "bank account holder", you may just think of yourself that way. What you are is a human.

So how do you self reference then? Do you think of yourself as "mother", "company employee", "bank account holder"? Do you often think of yourself with hierarchy titles?

Apparently it's not okay for a mother to call herself a mother, but it's okay for an Aspie to call him or herself an Aspie?

You simply misunderstand the topic my friend. It has nothing to do with whether or not it is "okay" to call yourself a mother. It has to do with how you self reference, that's all. How do you refer to yourself, how do you think of yourself. Is it intuitive to you how you fit into all of these categorizations? Or do you just mimic others? Is it somewhere in between?

And he's basically saying "if you have an identity, you are not autistic" to people for whom being autistic is a major part of their identity.

It would be the perfect troll, but I don't think it's intentional - just another aspie who's constructed an elaborate theory of autism vs. neurotypicality without bothering to check whether it actually fits anyone but himself. We all do it sometimes (or is that just me? )

I think of myself as a collection of experiences, memories and perspectives. A phrase like "I am a mother" or "I am an aspie" describes many, but not all, of them. This is different, I think, than a "role", which has to do with how others expect one to behave, and as an aspie, I don't always grasp those expectations right away. However, part of being a mother (or an aspie, or a woman) arises from having the experience of living as one. Experience, instinct, hormones, wiring. I would treat my children largely the same if we lived on a desert island - which probably makes me a "bad mother" from a neurotypical point of view. I certainly have shocked people by talking to my children like adults before.

One can be a human and all of the above mentioned things....for instance I am a metalhead but I am also a human. Does this mean humans are the only thing that is real? I do think there are lables/titles that apply to me but I am anti-hierarchy so I don't self label with such things, and would not accept someone else trying to put a hierarchy title on me would immediately reject it. I think of myself as more of a metalhead, stoner, music addict, credit union account holder since banks suck so I actually do pride myself in choosing the credit union over them, cigarette smoker...and plenty more things apply to me but doesn't take away from that I am also human I don't think.

Well if you're going to post a thread on such vague concepts in such a technical manner, there is going to be explaining to do since it can be hard to understand. Also it seems you are kind of saying autistic people aren't protective when it comes to their identities but from what I've seen I'd have to disagree with that....but I know people do get attached to their identities, just not so sure its an inherently bad thing is all.

Mothers often have difficulty teaching/downloading an identity to autistic children.
In many cases, such as in aspies, they are eventually able to do this, and the identity is learned to be something to value and protect. Over time it becomes conditioning.

Even then, many aspies fail to recognize the mother's identity in the context that it is expected.
This mother-child relationship is often the first social hierarchy the aspie is subjected to.
It is often rejected, which sometimes results in the mother rejecting the child.

This is a real fundamental problem that many parents don't understand.

With NT children this process is usually quick and intuitive.

In the aspie with the learned identity it is often kept completely within conscious thought and is not intuitive.

Maybe it becomes intuitive with many aspies, - I'm not sure.
It takes a bit of metacognition to determine the nature of the identity.
I'm just trying to gather information.

Have a BA in Anthropology, and so have some contact with social science speak, and even I can't figure out what you're talking about.