I realized why I have always been afraid of those with power

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TheSperg
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11 Nov 2014, 1:16 am

Because their reactions to me and decisions were so random it scared the beejesus out of me to ever have to be "judged".

Like a cop might realize I'm just a pedestrian, OR my lack of body language and flat affect might make him think I'm lieing or hiding some major crime and everything spins out of control and I don't even understand his POV of me to explain.

Basically I've noticed people don't know what to make of me/I don't make sense to them am odd and this can be really dangerous.

This goes from everything from a school principal to a judge, FAR too many of those in power rely on their "gut" to read people and with me and probably other ASDs that can be flat wrong.

I almost wish people would explain their thought processes and allow appeals like a court in all of life lol.



jbw
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11 Nov 2014, 3:21 am

The concept of social power or authority is inextricably tied to the belief in a social hierarchy. The underlying assumption that proponents of all forms of hierarchical organisation make is that there is a "natural" power gradient between people who deserve to make decisions because they are "better" as defined by some "objective" yard stick, and those people who are "unfit" for making decisions, even for themselves, according to the same yard stick. The yard stick can be anything that people have come to believe in as a symbol of social status. Interest bearing money and all its derivatives are popular designer drugs of choice for the players of the social game.

Your behaviour is being judged based on conformance with the social norms of the surrounding culture. Your statements are being judged based on what the listener assumes he or she would be thinking when uttering those same words. If the interpretation does not match your behaviour, or if the interpretation violates a social rule, you are out of luck.

If you are dealing with someone who can "prove" to occupy a higher social rank by flashing the right social symbol, then you are the only one expected to do any explaining. Social authority is deemed right by definition.

Aspies may value understanding and explanation much higher than any human constructed notion of social rank, but most of the rest of the vast social universe thinks and acts otherwise.



Last edited by jbw on 11 Nov 2014, 4:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

auntblabby
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11 Nov 2014, 3:50 am

like Alfred Hitchcock [was he an aspie?] I have always had issues with authority figures, like fear and loathing. I have been picked on more often than not, by such. in airports I am ALWAYS tailed by security. one uncommonly nice one explained to me that my body language fit a profile of suspicious people. I cannot change that. I don't even comprehend body language much of the time unless the other person is about ready to attack.



B19
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11 Nov 2014, 4:08 am

I can understand that fear of being misinterpreted, and experience has sensitized me to it. There have been times when I have been really ill - like with pneumonia - I could hardly breathe - and the emergency room house surgeon informed me I was just tired (I had a very high fever, was coughing up blood and in extreme pain from trying to draw breath). I nearly died before I was taken seriously, and when the consultant later found out how I had been treated at emergency, he took action against the house surgeon. That was the most dangerous episode of being completely misinterpreted.

I do seem to have trouble getting through to doctors, though if it is serious now I take a support person with me, who is a good communicator and advocate for me. They behave much more appropriately to my medical concerns then.

It shouldn't be like this, but it is. It frightens me, actually, especially as I am growing older and have some frail health anyway due to an lifelong immune deficiency.

So I can relate to what you said too, OP.



Edna3362
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11 Nov 2014, 5:42 am

This is another reason why I'm having such a hard time on daily basis. And, I'm sick of it. (Really, REALLY sick of it) XD I'm sick of worrying about being misinterpreted. And being scold or judged because of it only reminds me that I 'don't belong' to begin with... No matter how hard I worked up not to be misinterpreted, no one here in my place CAN help. Explaining to any NTs in my place never helped either.
Once upon a time, my sister thinks I have it easy because schoolwork is easy for me, as it's something she has to worry about. She thinks I had it easy because I don't care about boyfriends and dramas, and look like I'm not worrying for the future at all, but in reality I M and I'm NOT confident about it. She had NO IDEA what I'm really dealing with because school and relationships isn't the ONLY point that I'm dealing with. Whereas I'm dealing with something bigger; where NTs like here almost can never see; and almost never deal with it because they had it subconsciously/automatic (unless they ARE nuts), so they don't have to learn or see it consciously. Their reality is what I'm really dealing with, not some petty schoolwork or working out just to get some stupid compliments from others; but something they already taken for granted that I can NEVER 'have'. What they 'have' is what they expect that I 'have', yet I cannot 'have' and they don't know that I never 'have'. I cannot distinguish who 'have' or who doesn't 'have', but I'm aware that I don't 'have'. Ok, the word 'have' doesn't sound right anymore. :lol:

In My Opinion don't consider body language and social power as 'true' (they maybe real, but they are not universal) that could directly or indirectly gain connection-power (through charm and/or cunning that is, regardless the intentions, it's all about impressions); as it becomes useless when it comes outside another NT's culture or hierarchy, and had gone wrong.
As I don't think it's universal, they can't rule out death and escape math :twisted: (Ok, that's a bit off.)
Anyways, the point is, I think that body language isn't universal; because if it IS, then eye contact doesn't provoke animals and is considered polite in the east then :roll: SERIOUSLY! Researchers should give a pause from focusing at west. Especially U.S.A. (I have nothing against the west or U.S.A. or everyone who lives there but they're just too over-represented. Views of other culture to autism TRULY varies, but towards negative or 'shameful for parents', but that is getting a bit off topic...

TheSperg wrote:
This goes from everything from a school principal to a judge, FAR too many of those in power rely on their "gut" to read people and with me and probably other ASDs that can be flat wrong.

I almost wish people would explain their thought processes ------


^^ Just.. this. Only with more clarifications.

jbw wrote:
Your behaviour is being judged based on conformance with the social norms of the surrounding culture. Your statements are being judged based on what the listener assumes he or she would be thinking when uttering those same words. If the interpretation does not match your behaviour, or if the interpretation violates a social rule, you are out of luck.


But then, most NTs in a foreign culture gets (mostly receives lot) of help regardless their situation (whether they're in a high class cruise or being shipped in slavery. they will not have this problem in long-term. IF they have this problem in a long run, it always never last like "aspies' case"). Like "culture shock".


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jbw
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11 Nov 2014, 6:08 am

Edna3362 wrote:
jbw wrote:
Your behaviour is being judged based on conformance with the social norms of the surrounding culture. Your statements are being judged based on what the listener assumes he or she would be thinking when uttering those same words. If the interpretation does not match your behaviour, or if the interpretation violates a social rule, you are out of luck.


But then, most NTs in a foreign culture gets (mostly receives lot) of help regardless their situation (whether they're in a high class cruise or being shipped in slavery. they will not have this problem in long-term. IF they have this problem in a long run, it always never last like "aspies' case"). Like "culture shock".

NTs in a foreign culture only get assistance because they are typically visually recognisable as non-locals via their language, clothing, and/or physical characteristics etc. These obvious difference are attributed to difference in culture, and not to wilful ignorance.

In contrast, aspies and autistics seem to be local, yet don't seem to behave quite as locals are expected to behave. They are subject to the "uncanny valley" effect just like humanoid robots, and are penalised for not fitting in, apparently wilfully ignoring the applicable social code.

I have lived in a number of different host cultures on different continents and can confirm that being a foreigner helps. It even works for aspies :-)

My recommendation for treating AS: relocate to a non-xenophobic culture where one is easily perceived as foreigner.



Edna3362
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11 Nov 2014, 6:50 am

jbw wrote:
Edna3362 wrote:
jbw wrote:
Your behaviour is being judged based on conformance with the social norms of the surrounding culture. Your statements are being judged based on what the listener assumes he or she would be thinking when uttering those same words. If the interpretation does not match your behaviour, or if the interpretation violates a social rule, you are out of luck.


But then, most NTs in a foreign culture gets (mostly receives lot) of help regardless their situation (whether they're in a high class cruise or being shipped in slavery. they will not have this problem in long-term. IF they have this problem in a long run, it always never last like "aspies' case"). Like "culture shock".

NTs in a foreign culture only get assistance because they are typically visually recognisable as non-locals via their language, clothing, and/or physical characteristics etc. These obvious difference are attributed to difference in culture, and not to wilful ignorance.

In contrast, aspies and autistics seem to be local, yet don't seem to behave quite as locals are expected to behave. They are subject to the "uncanny valley" effect just like humanoid robots, and are penalised for not fitting in, apparently wilfully ignoring the applicable social code.

I have lived in a number of different host cultures on different continents and can confirm that being a foreigner helps. It even works for aspies :-)

My recommendation for treating AS: relocate to a non-xenophobic culture where one is easily perceived as foreigner.


That would really work... But then, tickets are expensive, so is moving. But then again, I might add this to my possible future list; as it's not 'too late'; I'm not even in my 20s yet so... XD
Oddly enough reminds me being accused as foreigner as a child because of speaking too much english at the same time being an odd ball to peers and (annoyingly) being awed by adults.

But I really wish locals (here) helps so I can be with my love ones at most times in the future... But ah well, I'll just have to deal with it until I get a hold of my own hopefully... Or them no longer ignorant to see that 'I have it easy' or 'make an excuse crap that they cannot see' like my sister or my peers thought.


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Aspiewordsmith
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11 Nov 2014, 10:22 am

People can tend to fearauthority figures because they are not infallible like they think they are and some can definitely use their position for example within a workplace or within some kind of service like people with learning disabilities do during the day times to occupy themselves. An allistic person and people with other problems and disabilities tended to be favoured in these than people on the autistic psectrum have also been seen as troublemakers bad influences. If we who have Asperger syndrome have an impairment of socialisation then how can we be an influence on anyone either good or bad? That doesn't make sense.

A similar is the mess when aspies and coppers try to mix for example being a witness to a crime. A copper looks out for eye contact asa sign of honesty and a certain tone of voice which doesnt come across from his or her point of view as having attitude, being arrogant as well so ends up talking in a monotone which can give a copper that a person is taking the piss or some other thing and thinking the person is dishonest by trying to avert the eyes because eye contact may for some be considered inapropriate behaviour for someone when dealing with a person on a professional basis for the police enquiry sort of thing but not with your girlfriend/boyfriend or your mum or dad or siblings. A lot of allistics put a lot of emphasis on a social hierarchy in which must be obeyed or not questioned or addessed differently and practice a sort of minimalist sort of behaviour polite, but aloof or distant, not getting attached emotionally especially that makes decisions for people that are tough for the person and also to have little sense of conscience or empathy. This is also being professional in terms of a work like environment. Hans Asperger described AS people has lacking empathy, isn't that ironic?

A lot of this is also due to the fact that society is geared towards people on the neurotypical spectrum particularly allistic people. So thereforw sees anyone as allistic until proven otherwise within the contxt of rule infringements and only seeing a person having a developmental disability or some other condition when it suits that society rather than the person. Most allistic social hierarchy is largely based on arrogance anyway :arrow:



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11 Nov 2014, 11:15 am

It make sense to be afraid of what most perceive as "power" because most of it is illusory, and those that believe they have it are delusional. The worst part of this is the masses that also share this delusion, which makes the situation very dangerous, thus worthy of fear.



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11 Nov 2014, 12:03 pm

Quote:
in airports I am ALWAYS tailed by security. one uncommonly nice one explained to me that my body language fit a profile of suspicious people. I cannot change that. I don't even comprehend body language much of the time unless the other person is about ready to attack.


THIS. I get pulled aside "randomly" at every possible stage of every flight I take. My luggage gets opened. I get sniffed by dogs. I get asked questions. This even happened to me while I was boarding a flight holding my infant son in my arms. They let parents board first, then pulled me aside and went through my bags while everyone else pushed past me.
I wish they'd invent a "harmless weirdo" badge I could flash.