Any other groups that are more accepting of self-diagnosis?

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I don't mind if I don't fit in with a group or majority anywhere, or if my opinions are not the same as more common opinions.
I don't feel bad if others say negative things about me or my opinions or criticize, as those are their opinions, and they can say them.

The nature of debate seems to be getting missed in this thread - and other related threads.

The purpose is interaction!!


The premises are simple - someone makes a point, and if a counter-argument can be given, the initial premise is reconsidered.

A number of site users seem to be confusing this for personal opinion, and personal attack, when no such instances of personal attack (I speak with respect to myself!) can be found.

I don't personally agree with all points I'm posting - I'm simply posting counters to points of view - possible flaws in reasoning/logic that could lead to a weakness with respect to stance taken.

PS the reply to the lawsuit issue was good. I'll hopefully think of a decent rebuke soon.


The purpose is healthy, objective debate - not personal attack or insult.

Egg-zactly :p

I agree on all the positives of debate.

But what about when people don't want debate? Every discussion on a given topic does not have to become a debate.

Sometimes people need emotional support, or need a space to talk about things that make them feel vulnerable. No one should have to tolerate debate in those circumstances.

I can shield myself emotionally in a debate, so that I do not feel hurt by the comments, but what about when I don't want to shield myself that way?

That is my entire point in starting this thread. I would like to have a space to talk about things in a more personal way, where I can let my guard down and be more emotionally open. I cannot do that here. I have to be on alert at all times for the possibility of debate.

I agree if you don't want a debate then you shouldn't be forced into one.

As far as I can tell, the vast majority of threads outside of the self-diagnosis ones have stayed on track. I think if you made a topic with a firm disclaimer that you don't want any debates, you just want support, practically all posters would respect that: I know I would.

Not necessarily, see below


None of them have said they are 'perfectly happy' without a diagnosis, irrespective of availability - are you sure of this?

Jen's recent thread where she mentions her psych suspects schizophrenia (edit - psychosis) should be evidence enough that the issue I'm discussing could, in extreme instances, become a reality.


From suspected to diagnosed


Your angle is based on the assumption that everyone who suspects they have autism wish for a diagnosis, when, from what I've read so far, some individuals have no intention and never have had any intention of pursuing professional dx.

If such an individual died from medical complications due to something such as a brain tumor presenting itself symptomatically in a similar manner as autism, a family member could pursue legal action against the site.

(again - I'm discussing a point of view - don't take personal offence!)

Last edited by sonicallysensitive on 02 Dec 2014, 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Well, first off I'm pretty sure the psychics would not need a diagnosis from a doctor because they would already know what the doc is going to say.


Second, I run into a very similar situation in the automotive mechanics world.
It certainly appears to me that most trained/certified mechanics have been so because they wanted a secure job, which most often involves selling product. Once certified, any learned knowledge becomes mostly irrelevant. The primary focus is to keep things simple, impersonal, and efficient as far as turning profit. Generalizations and parts replacements are the general rule. They quickly categorize the problem, and then sell the applicable product.

On the other hand I have no official training or certifications in automotive mechanics. However, it is a special interest and I have more test equipment than most automotive shops. I often work on my own or friend's vehicles, so the situation is reversed in that it becomes more personal and much less efficient. I spend a lot of time determining exactly what is wrong and why it happened in the first place because I care about the knowledge of the system instead of selling product.

It doesn't require a certification to see that a tire is losing air. It's also more likely that a mechanic will sell you a new tire before bothering to discover why the original was losing air. This is a generalization, but is an example of why I would rarely trust a mechanic. They just don't have the interest or time to invest in thorough troubleshooting of problems. That would require extensive time using test equipment, and probably a lot of thinking time as well. They have to keep people/cars moving in and out quickly. Doctors do the same thing.

As in the case with ASD/Aspergers, the situation is far less complex because diagnosis does not require any special test equipment, and all the applicable information is easily available online to the reader. The individual also has the benefit of a lifetime of self-observation which certainly has more significance than a few minutes in front of a stranger.

If you do go to a doc, they are unlikely to stick to the simplicity of an aspergers diagnosis, and instead categorize you with a more specific type of mental disorder so that they can prescribe a medication to treat it. Depression and anxiety seem to be the most common associated disorders. Take your pills and get out the door.

In fact the docs seem to have very little need to make a diagnosis of aspergers. I don't think they have a pill to prescribe for your aspergers. If there were a pill to treat aspergers then I think the situation would change drastically. As professionals, they have their own concerns to look out for, but that does not change the reality of someone having aspergers or not. In psychological terms aspergers is a very general condition, and not exactly rocket science to recognize.

Don't reply?!


Is there a difference between debates and discussion?


Agreed



No problem, consider this my last post in this thread

The barn door is already open on this thread now so please feel free to continue debating until the cows come home.

(Sorry everyone for not using literal language I could not resist mixing these metaphors )

Excellent points olympiadis!

Exactly. Doctors have to keep patients moving in and out quickly as well. And they have products to sell on the behalf of pharmaceutical salespeople who visit them regularly and give them incentives to influence their decisions.




Yes yes yes. And many people never even make it beyond seeing a GP because the GP is more than happy to write a prescription for depression or anxiety without looking deeper or giving a referral.




Would replace the word need here with incentive. Doctors have very little incentive to make a diagnosis of AS/ASD, but I agree they have very little need to either.




Yes I think so too.

Autism is far more complex than placing a band-aid on one's finger.


But they do have the training and the appropriate certification to legally undertake work on your vehicle.


Hence a doctor will refer you to a specialist.

The alternative is individuals freely demanding heart surgery whenever they have a chest pain as they have read online that chest pains can be indicative of the need for heart surgery.



The success rate of diagnosis (and number of cases of misdiagnosis) is known. Control measures are in place.

The success rate of 'self-diagnosis' is unknown. What are the 'self-diagnosis' control measures?

Garages have standards with respect to working environment and official documentation is created with respect to work undertaken on your vehicle.



Are they part of a conspiracy theory, or does autism frequently occur with other disorders requiring medication?


As above


There are many reasons a doctor won't take a case to the referral stage



So there's a conspiracy?

[/quote]
I also have the training and appropriate certification to legally work on my vehicle (no training and no certification is all that's required!) I have had to correct mistakes that mechanics have made in the past.. I would be able to look at a tire and tell if I needed a new one.

Mechanics are not legally required to be certified to work as mechanics.




What if they actually do NEED surgery, but the doctor is not taking their symptoms seriously. That does not mean that the patient should be cut open on the spot simply because they demand it, but anyone would be right to demand further examination and testing that may indeed lead to surgery.

There is a widespread problem with women not being taken seriously by doctors when they report chest pain or other symptoms of heart trouble. And the symptoms of heart problems can manifest differently in women than they do in men, but many doctors do not know that. I have read many articles talking about this being a problem, with specific examples of women who had a heart problem and were not taken seriously by their doctor.




So what? I'm not concerned about it.




You quoted me as saying this, and I didn't write this.




Again, so what? The doctor's reasons could be wrong.

I think this is what Dianthus is trying to say: There is little incentive to diagnose one with Asperger's/Autism Spectrum Disorder because the treatment, in and of itself, does not consist of lots of pharmacological-type therapy, which puts money into many related pockets.

Yes, thank you.

I know what she's saying.

That's because I've seen it all before about a million times. The anti 'Big Pharma' force is strong on the IBD forums I frequent.

They have a point, but then again I've seen a photo of Mercola's mansion. If the docs don't take your money, the quacks will.

Personally I believe most doctors will give the diagnosis they think is correct. They don't lose money by diagnosing autism. If they really want to milk the patient, just diagnose co-morbid depression, ADHD, OCD, etc. Bingo - you have your cash cow, while the patient has his or her autism diagnosis.