Interaction seems to be all about power.

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BlueYellowBrownGreen
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06 Jan 2015, 5:36 pm

I won't have anyone bossing me around to puff up their ego. I can be very helpful but I've noticed that many people don't just ask you to do something because you are part of a team and it has to get done; it is about them giving an order to feel big. It is a power play. I think this behaviour is disgusting.

I don't want to be around someone who expects me to be LeFou to their Gaston. No thanks, not interested.
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ImAnAspie
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06 Jan 2015, 6:42 pm

When I was younger, I used to fear my bosses but now I've been in this Government job for so long and realize they're not going to sack me unless I commit murder, I'm happy.

I also love my job. It's very repartisious which I love! I can sit there all day doing it. I just get lost in it. I go all day sometimes not even thinking about our remembering lunch until someone says to me "Have you eaten?" But I never feel hungry any more.

It's the people at work who try to remind me to eat. I can't even remember what I'm posting to... power. Oh yeah, as I said, if humans didn't remind me to eat, I wouldn't. In that way, I guess they've got the power to express their concerns but I don't need it. I can look after myself quite (reasonably) well.

In summary, many times I've felt people are trying to take charge of my life and I always rebel but in hindsight, it may have been the best thing for me at the time.

Not all that seems sinister is! Sometimes there are more than just goods intentions and food ideas behind what humans say. I hate to admit this but it seems they can come up with some good solutions EVEN THOUGH THEIR BRAINS ARE WIRED INCORRECTLY!


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JustSoCurious
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06 Jan 2015, 7:02 pm

I loathe even when superiors do that sort of thing. It's a big peeve of mine when they critique something you did perfectly simply for the sake of providing input. In that regard, it doesn't seem to be about power to me, but more as positive reinforcement for themselves that their role as a leader is being fulfilled. I feel it's more of the power thing when subordinates, or people who are on the same level as you, try and do it.

It always amazes me how wound up people get when they interact with "powerful" people. We had a visit from corporate where I work the other day and the whole place was frantic.



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06 Jan 2015, 8:59 pm

The irony about power, is that the people who have it, don't need to use it, so that if you are in a room with a powerful person, you don't feel small or intimidated in their presence. For instance, if you were being introduced to either of the last two presidents of the USA, you would feel their presence in the room, but I don't think you would feel intimidated by either of them, because the reason they rose to become the president of the USA, is because they are so good at dealing with people.
So the next time you are intimidated by your boss over a trivial matter, what it means is that they don't actually possess very much power themselves, because the only way they know how to get something out of you, is to be rude and obusive. The truth is your rude boss is likely someone who goes home at night to a wife who abuses him and to kids who run rings around him.



BlueYellowBrownGreen
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06 Jan 2015, 9:55 pm

Excellent points! Thank you for your replies.

When a peer tries to boss you, they are out of line. Often they do it in a way that 'sounds' like they are just asking for help but it becomes obvious pretty quickly that it is really about them exerting power over you. I worked with someone and helped them a lot (how to work equipment) and when the person became comfortable, they suddenly tried to boss me around. I was taken aback but I recognize this pattern now. Lesson learned: don't expect someone to act gracefully when you help them.

I really don't think that bully types are just trying to help. I think there are many very decent people but even a decent person can be a jerk sometimes and you have to stand up to them (or anyone).

I like the point about how truly powerful people don't need to exert power over others; that is true. And they might not have a high position like a president of a company; they are just very self-aware and self-possessed. They have confidence that doesn't require putting someone else down.

I also think that sometimes people are so adverse to accepting directions that they can be horrible to work with; these types make everything a battle. They immediately have an attitude and reject what you ask them to do. So it is not good to be completely anti-authority.

That is a good point about someone justifying their position; they have to make a comment to justify their job; they have to find something to criticize, no matter how petty. There is so much ego involved in communicating with people.

I know that I used to despise feedback. I resented it and I wasn't very good at discussing things with others. I just wanted to do things my way. I was happiest working by myself. Why? Because working with people isn't just about doing a job. And that is something I had to learn as an autistic person.

For the first person who commented about being engrossed in the job, it sounds like you've found your niche. That is important in life.

I know that there are things that don't come automatically to an autistic person, like reading body language, especially the more subtle language. Sometimes an autistic person can come across as a little odd but that is okay. I think one way to deal with bullies is to know yourself, to really know your likes and dislikes. That way, nobody can label you or tell you who you are.

We are always learning and growing. I used to look back at situations and feel embarrassed. Like the time I offered everyone breath mints at my work and a man got offended. I looked back and thought that I must have looked like a real goof but I've learned to shrug it off now because what else can you do? I find that sometimes people underestimate you when you have autism (mostly they don't even know you have it) but you seem a bit passive or odd and they assume that you are weak. A lot of people are always trying to size others up, "Can I dominate them?" It comes as a shock when the autistic person isn't as easy to bully as they thought and they become almost enraged as they say in their minds, "You misled me!" No, they misread the autistic person!

People like to put others in pigeon holes. You are the strong one. You are the quiet person. You are the smart person. You are the weak person. You are the____. And in relationships, many people want to put the friend in a box, "you are the ____friend, you must fit this role". No thanks. A person isn't an ornament to add to their collection. A person isn't like getting a certain coloured towel to add to the rest. I don't want to be the 'quiet' friend.

I remember these people wanted me to sit at their table and when I decided I didn't like them and sat at another table they had a fit! I decided I didn't like them because they were trying to put me in a box. I had to be the passive one who didn't offer any opinions. Whe3n they were all talking I added my opinion and everyone stopped talking and glared at me and then the alpha in the group proceeded to talk! So I thought, "I'm not taking this" and sat at a different table (it was during college). During a class, the alpha actually said very loudly in front of the entire class, "Hey, why aren't you sitting with us?", like I didn't have the right to choose where to sit! I said, "I'm fine where I am thanks" and I never sat with them again. But they seemed to follow me around. The mate of the alpha plunked himself down at my table in the cafeteria. He commented, "my school bag is sure heavy" and I said, "Well, at least it is good exercise", and he immediately said, "Is that a fat comment? Are you commenting on my weight?" and then he sat down and said, "You know, I don't think you are as nice as you seem to be". How dare him judge me like that; he was the one who was out of line.



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07 Jan 2015, 4:15 am

BlueYellowBrownGreen wrote:
I won't have anyone bossing me around to puff up their ego. I can be very helpful but I've noticed that many people don't just ask you to do something because you are part of a team and it has to get done; it is about them giving an order to feel big. It is a power play. I think this behaviour is disgusting.

I don't want to be around someone who expects me to be LeFou to their Gaston. No thanks, not interested.
:ninja:


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Feyokien
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07 Jan 2015, 10:53 am

I almost got sucked into someones social domination hierarchy 2 years ago. It was an ugly thing to watch, these kind of people are probably the greatest danger to the world. I tend to avoid any hierarchies I perceive like the plague.



BlueYellowBrownGreen
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09 Jan 2015, 3:54 am

Good Points; I don't like hierarchies. I do understand that sometimes there has to be a leader but the hierarchy model to me isn't about leadership, it is pettiness. When your peers try to be above you and when a boss has to humiliate you to feel their power-this is not about leadership and has nothing to do with achieving a higher goal.



jbw
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09 Jan 2015, 4:23 am

Spot-on, typical social interaction all about power, social status, and money (the latter two being the units of measure for power).

If you haven't already, read Ian Ford's book "A Fieldguide to Earthlings" for a thorough analysis of the topic.



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09 Jan 2015, 8:05 am

People often do this: they either try to boss you 'for your own good.' like they have your best interest at heart, and they're so good in being convincing that maybe they even convince themselves, which is something a good liar must do in order to sound convincing.

or they make friends with you, and then when you let your guard down, they start bossing. now you feel uncomfortable about saying no and losing their friendship. and you also trust them, so you dont know if they're out of line or not, or maybe you exaggerate your reactions. not knowing the social codes, we aspies often fall for it. you go alone, and they get more and more annoying and bossy and bullying, and then you realize they have crossed the line, and you've been used all this time.


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Felinelover
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09 Jan 2015, 12:37 pm

Communication seems often to just be about power plays and not actually about the things supposedly being communicated about.

The way I see it, Aspies mainly use words to talk, and some (not all, thank you Great God Lord Divine) neurotypicals use words in the way a magician uses a hand flip on the right hand side to distract you from revealing the trick he is doing on the left hand side.

I for one can often get quite irritated by the phenomenon where so-called communication is actually used as a means to power play. To me it's clear that words are there to communicate ie analyse and express and so forth, relating to the topic being discussed about.

Small talk also makes me vomit, as it's not about ANYTHING. A frustrating, mind-numbing waste of one's valuable time.

But I have read on evolutionary psychology that apparently words were first invented so that humans could give each other virtual strokes thru words as the human groups grew too big for every member to be stroking each other physically. Reading it has helped me understand that many people often just use words as strokes, as in bonding. I don't, but I guess that's got to do with being an Aspie.

Also, I recommend the book Games People Play by Eric Berne. Reading it was a revelation - albeit a depressing one. The good news is that not all people play those horrible games all the time. I like to hang out with open minded people from all walks of life and getting to know more and more of such people has immensely improved my quality of life over the past few years.


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olympiadis
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09 Jan 2015, 2:52 pm

I'm going to have to report this to the hierarchy.



rugulach
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09 Jan 2015, 9:51 pm

What is sad to see is how there is virtually no practical advice available for ASDers about this hierarchy crap. I would love, looooove for someone to come up with resources like websites, books etc that lay out in practical terms ways to deal with this hierarchy BS effectively.



BlueYellowBrownGreen
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09 Jan 2015, 10:23 pm

Thank you again for these very interesting and informative replies. I will read the book "A Fieldguide to Earthlings". Have you read this book? What did you think of it?

I have read Games People Play and I really liked it; but I noticed that lot of neurotypical people feel very uncomfortable talking about books like this because it isn't about 'psychopaths' or 'sociopaths', the bad guys out there. This book looks at games everyday folks play that are pretty low really. Like purposely spilling a drink on someone and pretending to be klutzy or the game, "Now I got you you son of a b***h!" game, where the person looks for a reason to explode and blame someone. It was indeed an illuminating book. That's why I love Sherlock Holmes because he is very honest about human interaction and calls a spade a spade. He never sucks up to someone based on their social standing and he isn't easily fooled. Shakespear was another author who told things in terms that I could understand; it wasn't all, "isn't the world nice, arn't people grand!". People can be decent but there is also a lot of unsavory and down right cruel behaviour going on too, often connected with power mongering.

I've noticed that too, how a friendship can begin to unravel. It starts off okay and then the 'friend' starts behaving badly. They start testing. As far as I am concerned, anyone who tests you to see how much crap you'll take isn't a friend. It's like the niceness at the beginning was fakery or maybe familiarity really does breed contempt. It isn't easy letting your guard down and when you do and someone jabs you, it can really sting! I am a tall female and I had a friend who was petite. I didn't care; I am not a jealous type; it didn't even matter to me. But all of a sudden, after being friends for awhile, my female friend starting saying, "You're so big!" and "I think men like small women, small little women that they can protect". I just looked at her; what was she talking about! Then she'd say, "Oh, I feel so big, I feel so big right now" and she was tiny and then she'd look at me and give me a cutesy sort of look. I wrote her a letter and told her that I didn't like that sort of talk, it made me feel like she was putting me down and she wrote back, "Well that's your problem isn't it!" So I stopped talking to her and then I saw her a year or so later and she approached me like nothing happened. She said, "Hi, how have you been? You should call me". I didn't. I wanted nothing to do with her. Did she miss having the 'Sasquatch' around or something? Why would she say such mean, personl things about my size anyway, like I can help it. I don't need that. Another 'friend' told me that when we walked she always wanted me to walk on the side of the sidewalk next to the traffic and she'd walk next to the houses. ???What, she wanted me to take the blow if a car shot at us??? Strange. I have found a few good friends. It is a blessing. :)