Aspergers and Autism questions.

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A quaint welcome to those who have decided to peruse the surface of my thoughts.

A lot of this comes from personal experience, so, I could give an incredibly long description of my life experiences, but I see no reason to enact such a procedure. Instead, this will be unjustly curt. But, still piquant for those of like mind.

My first question is this; what is the absolute difference between Aspergers and Autism? Are they not the same thing?

Now, before my second question inscribes itself onto your brain, let me elucidate something. My brother was diagnosed with severe Autism when he was very young (approximately the age of two). He is two years older than I. As for myself, I too was diagnosed at the age of two, with the exception that it was Aspergers. Over the course of our lifetimes, I have taught him how to be a "normal" person. To the point, that he can "test-out" of any Autism test. Most people believe he is a normal "NT," and have no clue about his "disorder."

Likewise, I too grew out of "severe-Aspergers." Though, this was mostly thanks to a good friend of mine who was an "NT." He taught me many social cues, so most things that would baffle an "Aspie" about "NT's," does not even faze me.

Thus my second question; can one who has Autism learn to be "normal?"

My third question is; who defined "normal?" It seems unfair to state that someone with Autism is "too stupid to learn" (quote from our Special Ed. Teacher, when we were younger). Or to imply that those with Autism are not natural, etc. But who in their rightest of minds, gave the scripture on "normal?"

Now comes the most important question I could impose upon you, ah, but again I need to elaborate. I understand what it is like to be both Autistic and Neurotypical. My social skills are ... unusual. I have talked people out of suicide, I have helped people through crisis, etc. My friends consider me incredibly wise, to quote them. But definitely not "normal." Though it is easy for others to befriend me, I find it hard to befriend them. As strange as that may seem.

So now I straggle upon a line, where I can neither fit in with "NT's" nor the "Aspies", I have come into contact with. My question for you is this; where do I fit in, anymore? Is there anybody out there, like me? Or do the echoes of the past haunt the shadow of my heart forever more?

To give further insight to my psyche, I love mathematics and science as much as the next "Aspie," however. I also loved studying religion, culture & history, even art. I am quite adept with psychology, as well. I have not met another Human, who believes in God as much they do Science. So I feel like I am alone. Forsaken, by even those akin to me. But the logic of my mind, swells with a retort! Alas, statistically speaking, I cannot be alone. I cannot be the only one. So are there others, who have experienced what I allude to? Has anyone else truly changed themselves to see what it's like to be Neurotypical, like I have? Is there another person, who learned to pick up on social cues, like tone and body language yet still can't look them in the eyes? Did anyone else learn to lie, without lying? This may seem cryptic at some points, but if you have experienced it, you will know exactly of what I speak.

I could easily pass as Neurotypical. Or I could pass myself off as an Aspergers. But deep down, I know that I am neither one nor the other.

Or is everything just an eidolon of my mind, evoked from my heart? Or to paraphrase, such a statement, am I merely insane?

With that, I shall evoke a preemptive thank you to any who made their way this far.

Bet you pass as NT until you have either: exhausted your personal resources [met a stressor greater than you can normally cope with or have become personally overwhelmed for other reasons]; or get in too deep with someone- so they get beneath your surface. Those who know you really well get that you are not actually "normal" and if they haven't told you flat out, they still know. They just don't know what to call it because they don't have a clear understanding of the autism spectrum.

But, I need to go lay down or something so I'll have to continue this conversation later.

Just wanted to reply so it would remind me to continue later. :]

...and if it's five syllables or more, it would be great if there was an accompanying glossary. please and thank you.
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Per your other post NT=Neurotypical.

Ah, a hippopotomonstrosesquipedaliophobial person, eh?

In either case, I apologize for the irrelevant, pompous fluff, I decide to use when conveying information to Humans. But, alas, it is a habit to which breaking it has become like fracturing bedrock with a marshmallow.

Withal, there is no need to reply immediately. You can seize as much time as you wish, first.

Also, your scenarios are not quite correct. By the time I am exhausted, I shut down all of my emotions to preserve my well being. To the point, that I feel absolutely nothing at all. This is a dramatic change in my psyche, as under normal circumstances, I would be incredibly empathetic. However, once I am overwhelmed, I tend to amplify my emotions. To the point that having an ambulance pass me by, can cause me to cry knowing that I could never save the person who is most assuredly in trouble.

As for the latter; I have had many people tell me that I am unique, and that they would love to know me, etc. The problem is, as easily as others can connect to me, I cannot connect to them. So no one really ever gets too deep. The few people who ever did, cut off the friendship under the excuse that knowing me was "too sad." Which I do not doubt. I generally keep myself locked away, within the labyrinth I have conjured. Never has anyone made it to the end.

The only reason I signed up for this forum, to "socialize" was because I am overwhelmed right now. All I want is to know that I am not the only one who thinks like this. Ironically, the only way others could know how I think (and thus compare) is if I told them most everything about me, and I don't want to do that.

I don't know about other people, just my vocabulary is only so large so if my reading comprehension starts to falter so much that i am looking up stuff in a dictionary I am likely to eventually stop trying to read. I am not sure it's pompous, not sure it isn't. I don't really have an opinion only that it might at some point make it more difficult to parse what you intend. Actually you remind me of someone I know in how you write but that doesn't really mean much other than you have similar writing patterns.



mmm... heh. That's not... the "normal state of affairs" for most people though. Shutting down and then being overly reactive, overwhelmed, overly responsive and overly empathetic to environment/people/situations and responding in ways where it is difficult for an observer to interpret what the reaction is actually a response to is kind of typical. : )

Not that I am making a case that I am "right", but just explaining my interpretation of what you are describing to see if we are on the same page.


Similar. I mean, I have a boyfriend. He is an autie, he has known me for about a decade. He knows me better than anyone else. That has taken a really really long time. I don't think anyone else will ever know me as well and it's been very risky for him to get so close, even after so long. I trust him unendingly but... I feel like there is just a lot that is shut off, and I've not described it as a labyrinth, but rather as compartments. I seem open to a lot of people because I can be candid- even about things that a lot of other people aren't typically open about.

But I'm actually pretty good at regulating and tagging what is "sharable" and what is "off limits". Oddly the only one who seems to fully understand they don't actually know as much about me as might be "usual" is my boyfriend- who is the closest to me. Which I think maybe doesn't make sense.

I have accepted at this point in my life that there will always be a good amount of distance between me and everyone else- I have a hard time explaining what is going on in my head and I often think that for people to even know wouldn't be acceptable- not in exactly a distasteful or outright rejecting way. But in a way that is difficult to accept because it would be very foreign. So why struggle to do that?

However, similar to what you are saying, people want to know me, know about me, etc etc etc. It is kind of overwhelming because I have a hard time with the reciprocation or understanding from their point of view what is going on there. I don't feel the same intensity of connection or in the same way. I find it interesting to talk to people when I'm comfortable- I like learning about people and kind of how they work, but I don't want people to feel like they are things I'm observing. And I don't actually feel like that. I mean I do feel greatly for people, but I definitely tend to not express it in a typical way.
.

This. Yes. The "wise" thing too. Which kind of baffles me at times.
I am pretty good at analyzing social situations from a distance- running them through some kind of analysis and then like, spitting out optimal scenarios. it's kind of my thing and it's weird. For myself, I have more difficulty. But I've been involved in a lot of peer support situations [mental health] and apparently i'm really helpful. I don't really understand why.

In conversations with other people i literally have to track certain "cues" in the conversation that mark I should ask about the other person, make sure I am listening, things like that. But i do it, and it works. And so... I take that information and process it and out spits something that looks like I'm neurotypical. But... not.

Like you, though- I end up in this middle ground very often.
I actually wrote about it recently in The Haven.
I don't know, there's a lot more to it.



No, I don't think you are alone in that grey area. Actually a couple people responded to my post in The Haven and it was helpful. I mean, I feel like there are more people who can relate around here than you might think.

Also, I like your name.

I answer the first question. I was too lazy to read the rest.


Autism is a broad term. In other words, Autism is like a spectrum. Theres those with low functioning autism who have low iQs, may be non-verbal, and have very little chance to functioning independently. Then theres those with high functioning autism who have at least normal cognitive abilities and can function independently but may have problems with anxiety, social skills, or other things. Also two people with autism are no exactly alike.

Aspergers is on the autism spectrum. It is classified as high functioning autism. To be diagnosed with Aspergers, you must have at least normal cognitive ability; no cognitive delays. You must also be able to function independently, it has to be possible that is. And finally, no serious language delays. For instance, being non-verbal. I think you can be diagnosed and have language delays but you still have to be able to be verbal.

I've heard this notion many times; and I believe this might have at least some validity:

High-Functioning Autism: Relative strength in the visual realm; relative weakness in the verbal realm

Asperger's Syndrome: Relative strength in the verbal realm, relative weakness in the visual realm.

I was diagnosed with autism at about age 3 (around 1964). I was diagnosed with "brain-damage/injury" around the same time.

I have a job, am married, drive, and have lived independently since age 20. I've had the same job for 34 years. I learned to drive late, though (age 37), and got my Bachelor's late (age 45).

I believe Aspergians and other people with autism have the ability to use their cognition to improve their social abilities.

Hm, I am uncertain how to respond. Part of me believes that my words were just vague enough, that it could have been interpreted as "normal" for an "Aspie." Even though I know that is not correct, the other part of me wishes to leave things as they are. So that everything can be "correct," for once.

To be honest, I could not comprehend what you were attempting to convey here ... But in either case, I would have to explain many things to clarify my original post. Unfortunately, I do not have the energy to do that. But needless to say, it is not quite like that. In some ways, I made my reply curt and thus, slightly misinformed. So to clarify, would slightly contradict what I stated to some degree. However, I should have expected such a stupid mistake, considering I have not slept in the past thirty or so hours.



That's what I thought, but I was uncertain. I mostly wanted to know the definition as used by this community.

Asperger's isn't HFA.
Not really.

I mean I've done research into this and, no I'm not part of the APA board or whatever crap but I did a massive lit review involving PDDNOS [at least average IQ] vs HFA vs Asperger's. It was also undergrad, so I mean, take it as you will...

There are some differences.
HFA tends to [obviously] involve language delay. Even when language develops speech patterns and language usage are often different and areas of the brain show differing activity often and are developed a bit differently. Like kraftiekortie said also tend to have better spacial abilities and visual understanding.

Asperger's tends to have different volume in different areas and tend to have better understanding of language and implicit meaning [but not necessarily other types of communication like tone or body language]

Those with PDDNOS tend to have, amongst the three, poorer proprioception and spacial understanding- I am having trouble remembering what the ability tendency was, but i could look back.

All share similar issues in general, but there are differing profile of abilities and those were some of the things that could be generalized fairly consistently as I remember from a 24+ page lit review [on a huge number of studies- this was several years ago].

So, I mean it wasn't published or anything but I did a huge amount of research.

[In my opinion subsuming everything under one autism spectrum was kind of a bunch of crap, but not like what I think matters.]

It's really only as important as it is for you, probably?
I had a hard time figuring out what you meant, to be honest so kind of went with it and then offered room for you to clarify or not- which is why I said that i wasn't saying i was right or trying to be right.
But, you know, it's important if it is. Not important if it's not.

I have relative visual-spatial problems, to the point where I could have "nonverbal learning disability."

I could ride a bike, though, and drive. I can't drive a truck, though. I'm a rather cautious driver.

My verbal ability, though it's not at the highest echelons, is a relative strength.

My proprioception is relatively poor. When I'm doing something with my right hand, I can't tell what my left hand is doing. I also have problems, sometimes, in body position vis-à-vis others (though I make a concerted effort not to get too close to people).

I'm very poor at "multi-tasking." I get overwhelmed quite easily when I have to do more than one thing at once. I "shut down" sometimes in these situations.

My brother had incredibly poor hand-eye co-ordination as a child, to the point, even looking at his hands he could not necessarily achieve the desired action he wished to sue upon the world.

His doctor at the time, prescribed . . . Video games. Interestingly enough, they worked spectacularly. Now he can work with both hands fairly well. I myself, also benefited from this. Being the younger brother, I got to play video games from an earlier age and it improved my co-ordination as well. I self-taught myself how to type, by transferring those skills to the keyboard. Now I can touch type 60 WPM. However, I still have a few typographical errors once in awhile. Mostly due to brain processes, rather than co-ordination.

I am not really certain what is meant by stating that Aspergers is weak in the visual realm. I have bad eye sight, so I need glasses. However, I am incredible at spatial processes. To the point, I could "manipulate" a Rubik cube "in my head," if that makes sense.

As a side note; My mother actually spoke to Temple Grandin, shortly after I was born. She got a lot of good advice from her, for Autism with my brother. But a lot of that advice did not hold true to me, with Aspergers.

Visual, to me, is closely related to spatial. That's why I always say "visual-spatial" when dealing with this topic.

I apologize if I seem aberrant to some regard. However, though I was diagnosed at a young age, some how I only recently found out that I have such "disabilities." So I have a lot of questions . . . More over, society as a whole seems to distrust those who are different, which is a statement that most people here may know very well. But after a certain point, you begin to inexorably accept that you are different. For myself, I find it hard to acknowledge that there may be someone similar to me. My logical capacity to acumen such circumstances, seems jaded.

This is me, for sure, KK!

High-Functioning Autism: Relative strength in the visual realm; relative weakness in the verbal realm.

OP: do you have any sensory issues? eg do loud noises or very noisy environments particularly bother you? A vast proportion of us on the spectrum do have sensory issues of one kind or another. Not 100%.

When I was young, I had a lot of problems with boisterous noises. It was bad enough that, for example, vacuuming the floor was something I could not weather. However, I became more enduring and it did not affect my pith. Now, I quite like to blare music and other loud noises do not cause disarray.

However, when in regard to general senses and not only sound, I am hyper sensitive to touch and pain, etc. Ironically, I have an incredibly high pain tolerance. Testing the limits of this resilience embedded a fear of affliction. I remember, as a child, I had fractured the bone in my arm. It was almost a compound fracture, but (somehow) did not break the skin. The doctor decided that I was doing incredibly fine considering the circumstances, and set it without medication of any sort. I was probably six years of age, at the time. In other cases, I simply despise being touched to such a degree, that merely being too close to someone bothers me. It is a minim strange.

Other wise, quandary does not surround my other senses.