Machine learning identifies FOUR autism subtypes

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I just hijacked another thread with this before realising it deserves a thread of its own...

The concept of there being several subtypes of autism makes a lot of sense to me.
(And I trust machine learning more than individual researchers such as Sir Simon B-C).
What do you think?

https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/brain-connectivity-behavior-flag-four-autism-subtypes/

Hi Mrs Peel, it's nice to see you.

I think that sounds really cool. I'd do it because I love having hard data about myself. I'm not sure I'd want any specific treatment but I'd be happy to participate in their research.

Things I know so far:

I have a genetic mutation which most likely caused my ASD and ADHD
I had longterm exposure to toxic heavy metals in utero and for the first four years of life
I have abnormal EEG readings that they aren't sure how to classify
They almost called it Epilepsy but it was a bit different
Something about too many slow waves in my temporal lobes ^
I have very abnormal brain wave patterns on my clinical sleep studies
I don't ever reach Delta Wave sleep (the restorative kind) and my other waves are messed up
I've had two strokes -- one in my cerebellum which plays a big role in autism
(Mind you I was already autistic when it happened) ^
I have severe sensory issues, and repetitive motions that needed to be medicated (self-harm)
I have severe BFRB
I have Visual Snow Syndrome
I'm Level 2 ASD with verbal 25th percentile and non-verbal 5th percentile
I'm selective mute (almost always mute)

Sign me up.

I like. Group A might benefit from X or X supplement, Group B might benefit from Y or Y supplement. I haven't seen an oxytocin reference before for an Autism phenotype. That's interesting b/c serotonin treatments (the 1st treatment plan for my psychiatrists) royally mess me up, but breastfeeding (oxytocin) was lovely for me. Isabella, now that mention it, I had unusual heart rhythms over my lifetime (starting as a toddler), all considered benign.

I forgot to say I have issues with oxytocin (actually more prolactin) and I still lactate. ^

That's interesting about your heart. I have a congenital heart defect which wasn't discovered until my first stroke. I also have a bunch of weird things like three ureters and markers for spina bifida. My daughter had mild spina bifida. I also had a late-stage miscarriage, and preterm labour with my daughter including hemorrhage. Maybe that's an oxytocin thing?

Supplements for me: NAC and methylated B-complex vitamins, no folic acid.

Thanks for the replies, sounds like you've got super-strength autism, Isabella.

Mine is pretty mild, but there is a physical aspect - I've found my nervous system is a bit off. When I first got my fitness tracker the HRV measure was really low. That's heart rate variability but is not really a heart thing, it relates to the balance between the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems. So I was stuck in flight-or-fight mode for too long, my body wasn't switching back into rest-digest mode as fast as it should.

I was on antidepressants for a while but although they stopped the lowest moods, sometimes I could get agitated. Now I'm trying out a ketogenic diet + melatonin for sleep + CBD oil for calming the nervous system. Although I'm not sure the CBD has much effect to be honest, apart from making a hole in my pocket.

I've never heard of that HRV thing. I don't have a fitness tracker and don't really want one but do you know if there's a way to buy one that just does HRV without all the other measures? That sounds pretty interesting to me. I've worn lots of heart monitors for long periods of time at home but I don't think they did the sympathetic / parasympathetic count like yours. Very cool. I'm sure I'm in hyperalert mode all the time because that's what my sleep lab tests always show, and they measure brain as well as heart activity. Actually maybe I'll dig them up. I'm hyperaware even when I'm asleep, which is likely why I have all the parasomnias. I can't think of a time I'm ever in "rest" mode. I don't even know what it feels like to be relaxed because I'm always scanning the environment for danger, even pre-trauma.

I've never done CBD but my kids do it and I could try I suppose. I've done a few edibles and I used to smoke a bit with my partner. It mostly made me a bit paranoid or agitated but not always. Painkillers like morphine make me agitated and I can't sleep when I take them. I call them a magical mystery tour for my brain. Benzos make me really depressed. I'm on ADHD meds now and it's taken me three years to name what they do to me. They make me anxious, but I couldn't put a name to the feeling until recently. I just launched into long descriptive anecdotals about how I couldn't get much done but I have such bad Alexithymia it didn't occur to me to label it as "increased anxiety". The only SSRI that worked for me was Zoloft 25 but it also increased my anxiety. SRNI make me suicidal. I can't really take any meds, even antibiotics, because nothing ever works. I've had UTIs for years and anitbiotics don't work. I had Strep (the actual super-bug variety in 2011) which lasted over six weeks with a 103 fever because no antibiotics worked.

I think I'm defective in terms of drug metabolism. Actually, I know I am.

My fitness tracker is a Fitbit Charge 5, but there are a few trackers out there now, I think there's one that's just a ring (oura ring?).

And there's a device called Apollo Neuro that you wear on your wrist or ankle that uses some kind of vibration method to calm your nervous system. I was thinking of trying it but hesitating as it costs something like $250.

I'm actually having good results with a ketogenic diet, it seems to steady my brain a bit. But it's hard to stick with. I'm giving it up for Easter, and have eaten 2 hot cross buns and some chocolate already!

^

Enjoy your Easter and your Keto. I've done Keto before too and lost a TON of weight very quickly. It was hard to get into the rabbit hole but once I was there it wasn't too bad. I can't remember why but my doctor said not to do it again. Maybe it was Potassium or one of the blood count numbers but I can't remember. I wish I could do it again because I'm a Keto-type eater by default.

Thanks about the info. I'll check that out when I get the brainspace. I'm going through some very bad times right now but maybe that will give me something to focus on.

I can't wear jewelry without panic attacks so I really doubt I could wear a bracelet or ankle thing. Definitely not the ankle thing. Bracelet MAYYYBBEEE depending on the weight and size. I go berserk in necklaces if I can't pull them over my head and I'll actually rip them off. It didn't used to be that bad but something changed overnight a few years ago. No earrings either. *Adds to sensory list*

Do you do Omega 3 Fish Oil? That really helps me, almost more than SSRI which I'm not even on anymore anyway.

I take a bunch of other vitamins too like A, lots of D for my skin, E, Lutein for my eyes, and Milk Thistle for my liver. At bed I take NAC, Magnesium, sedatives and a tablet to prevent trauma nightmares.

Different types of Autism makes a great deal of sense to me. The Spectrum appears to me to be a contrived mechanism to group similar things that are not understood.

However, whatever flavor of Autism I have I do NOT want a cure. I would prefer they find ways to help my kind of Autism to thrive.

I wish they had more about the brain MRIs, though. In late 2021, due to something else, I had a brain MRI...and they are still seem confused by the result.

Yes I forgot that. I take a fish oil every day and you are right, it definitely helps.

I kind of like that about autism, we can be unashamedly confusing to everyone else!

I agree it's funny how we stump doctors. ^ My EEGs and brain MRIs / CTs were all prediagnosis and they'd just stare at me very weirdly afterward. With the EEGs they did about four because they kept thinking they weren't done properly. Then they tried to convince themselves it was Epilepsy but didn't want to revoke my driving licence when it didn't really match up.

Come to think of it, my daughter had a really weird MRI result on her brain too. She's HFA and she was dx with Epilepsy but hers didn't match up with mine or anyone. I remember reading the report and being floored by it. She has Lupus and she's amidextrous and dyslexic with dyscalculia so I'm sure she gave them a run for their money. I think I think I even made a thread here so I should look that up. Now I want to find my sleep study papers and her brain paper because yup, they were really odd. *I have a phobia of dealing with paperwork or finding it but they must be here somewhere kind of filed with medical stuff although hers have been pulled out hundreds of times for disability insurance and court cases but that's another story.*

How's your vision?

Well, I wear glasses...but there's nothing unusual about that.

Apparently what is unusual about my MRI is that I am NOT in a wheelchair. Whether "Autism" explains the MRI anomalies is still under consideration. I'd much rather go with Autism than any of the other candidate explanations (which would already have me in a wheelchair!).

So, if I understand the study correctly, the 4 subtypes are:

• Challenged Social Affect
• Communication Difficulties
• Degree of Severity
• Repetitive Behaviors

Does anyone else get this?

Thank you, Fnord, I hadn't realised there was enough info in the article to work out the subtypes.

Thank you Mrs Peel, that is very interesting and helpful.

I've also had strange heart patterns for years, I had a heart monitor for tests but the doctor just said it wasn't the heart causing the flutterings, it was 'something else.' Well that's helpful...not!

I've also had very difficult blood sugar since birth. I MUST eat very regularly or it dips dangerously and I can faint, I get hot and cold sweats, fluttering heart, faintness. But all tests are 'normal' apparently. FFS.

Does that article show the clear types of autism? I couldn't find it. I could only find the one saying 'challenged in terms of social affect' which I think is myself. What is 'social affect'? Does it mean 'getting on with other people'? Because I really struggle with that.

Can anyone clarify this for stupid me?