Maladaptive daydreaming - I don't think it's a disorder

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I once posted a thread about my stimming on here, which I wish I never had. Where I wrongly made an association with my fleeting daydreams and my stereotypy. As my stereotypy is involuntary, it happens when it does, and sometimes I'm daydreaming, but I'm not daydreaming vividly and I have absolutely no connection to my daydream whatsoever. I don't remember the daydream, and it holds no significance to my stereotypic behaviour - but I made an association because I've never understood it myself. But now I'm understanding it more.

My stereotypy as well isn't the small gestural kinds of things that everybody does. I know a girl who is an excessive daydreamer and she sometimes mouths words and makes facial expressions, this is nothing like my stimming. And I think the movements reported in maladaptive daydreaming are quite common, especially hand ones like fiddling with something while daydreaming - I've seen behaviour like that when people daydream in public places. My stimming has no expressive value.

Maladapative daydreaming I think has been wrongly connected to AS, and I think posts like mine have contributed to this wrong association. I think people with AS can be excessive daydreamers too, but this is coincidental, and not indicative of any connection.

But more on the point I think it's not a disorder (not the experience), but as a disorder that doesn't really do anything apart from cause the person to daydream a little more than the average person. From what I've read online about it, most people are completely normal, know the difference between reality and fantasy, and it doesn't adversely affect their lives. It seems like a minor nuisance at worst, from what I've read. I don't think it's bad that it's being studied, but it's definitely a part of a burgeoning culture to pathologize every aspect of our neurology/psychology.

These things tend to catch on in tumblr, and then they become trends, and before you know it you have every 16 year-old girl on tumblr saying they have it. Not to be nasty, but it does become a bit trend-y.

And if anything it sounds more related to schizoid personality disorder, as it's people with schizoid personality types who are reported to have a tendency to build rich inner worlds, and become immersed into their imagination. I think misdiagnosis of AS can happen with people who have schizoid personality types. For me the behaviour is normal and is something we all indulge in. I daydream when listening to music, and I daydream when walking, and I daydream a lot in general. But I don't build worlds, or characters, or stories. My daydreams are fleeting and inconsequential, they mean nothing to me - they're not something I get emotionally attached to. However I don't think it sounds all too different to what fictional writers experience, which I would say is a totally normal experience.

I'm not a fan of fiction, so that could explain why I'm not into building stories, characters, universes - it doesn't interest me.

Also correct me if I'm wrong about MD.

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Last edited by Acedia on 18 Mar 2014, 11:17 pm, edited 7 times in total.

You have amazing self awarness and endearing honesty.

Thank you for the post.

I definitely do to some extent what is probably maladapative daydreaming by definition, although I didnt know there was a term for it until now. At the time I self-diagnosed myself (2006) I don't remember maladapative daydreaming being associated with Asperger's but now that I read a wiki article on maladapative daydreaming it does reference AS.

daydreaming can also be a form of coping with daily stressors.

I don't do maladaptive daydreaming, if it is the thing of building a world with characters and events in your head.

I think about things like my research projects when I am walking down the street listening to music, or sometimes I just listen to music, or sometimes I look around and listen to music, or sometimes I pay attention to myself moving down the street.

I don't understand what daydreaming has to do with stimming.

As for things being diagnosable disorders, I heard of a new disorder they are diagnosing in japan, and it seemed ridiculous to me. It is a new kind of depression in which people who have it feel depressed when they have to go to work or be at work, but they are happy for other activities like going to a movie or going shopping.

I have a lot of those maladaptive daydreaming characteristics. As a child , my imaginary world/daydreaming was all consuming and interfered with everything else. While I daydreamed I did and do twirl something like a string or end of paper in front of my eyes. I did this stim when not daydreaming though too. I've done it since I was a toddler and I didn't have my imaginary world back then and I do it now and I don't have one at the moment. I also used to walk in circles and talk to myself while daydreaming. My imaginary worlds weren't as creative as the maladaptive daydreamers described online. Mine were just the worlds in fiction exactly as described in the series and I was a character in the series and mostly I'd just replay parts of the novels in my head over and over again. Then at one point I'd pretend to be another child in my class, usually a pretty, popular one. I'd "replay" things that happened in real life in my head but pretend to be the pretty girl. Mine weren't elaborate creations of my own. I have daydreamed for most of my life though and it has been maladaptive. I don't think it needs to be its own disorder though, most people would fit the criteria for something else if it interfered with their life and if it didn't then they don't need any diagnosis at all.

daydreamer, your experiences remind me of mine. But I didn't make complex worlds. I do think it's cool, and I do wish I had more interest in fiction. I had written a short screenplay once, about a guy loosely based on myself, I don't think it was good though.

JonAZ, thank you. I do find this forum helpful actually, it makes me think about aspects of my behaviour. I only ever thought about my behaviour when I was made fun off.

Last edited by Acedia on 20 Mar 2014, 2:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

Yes.

My daydreams tend to consist of imagined conversations with people I already know, sometimes for the sake of "rehearsing" how it would go IRL.

Lately, I have been mouthing words when I do this more and more often. Don't know if anyone notices.

Still don't call it "maladaptive", since most of the time it is actually quite helpful.

EXACTLY! If all the categorists keep going on like this, there will be no normal people left. It's so stupid that they're even trying to diagnose something that HELPS us with other disorders and trying to make out that we're freaks.

it's a coping mechanism, build a metaphorical bridge and get over it.

The reason that it is pathologized in some individuals is that it can actually interfere with people's lives and daily functioning. I'm a member of a Maladaptive Daydreaming group on Facebook, and many of the members describe it as an all-consuming addiction that they can't kick, even though they would really like to, and that causes them to stay in their rooms for hours at a time, neglecting their real-world obligations. Some even cannot hold down a job because they cannot stay in the "real world" long enough to accomplish a task.

I do wonder if it may be an atypical form of A.D.H.D. I've also read that about 23-74%, depending on the study, of excessive daydreamers have experienced some form of trauma as a child; it may be somewhat related to PSTD or other trauma disorders. Acedia's mention of Schizoid personality disorder may also been on base. Interestingly, I've a had therapist suggest that I have "Schizoid traits" and Psychotic Disorder- Not Otherwise Specified instead of an autism spectrum disorder. The ballot's still out, I suppose (though I do recognize my daydreams as such, so how "psychotic" I am is questionable).

I consider my daydreaming to be much more adaptive than maladaptive. My sensory issues tend to get a lot worse when my mind isn't "divided" between my inner imaginary world and the "real" world. My imaginary friends also help me to feel less anxious in anxiety-provoking situations. The issue that therapists take with it, though, is the impact it has on my socialization. The vast majority of my socializing comes from the daydreaming; they fear that this lack of in-person interaction may be contributing to my depressive symptoms. There's also the fact that my stereotypy tends to go the whole nine years--pacing, running aimlessly, jumping up-and-down, moving my hands, making facial expressions, talking aloud--when I daydream, which can also interfere with socialization. I do exhibit some of these stereotypies when I am not daydreaming (especially the running), but to a lesser extent, as I am too busy "doing something" when I'm not daydreaming (my daydreams are of the long-running, complex, multi-character, constant type; I am constantly in a flux between my inner world and the outer world).

Thanks for the clarification, it does sound quite close to what I've read about schizoid personalities. I wonder though if it's social anxiety or a schizoid personality disorder that increases the daydreaming and shutting off, not the daydreaming that increases the neglecting of real-world obligations.



Most of that behaviour listed has gestural and expressive value, like gesticulating. And some of the others sound like fidgeting behaviour and stress ball playing. Pacing is very common, and something that most people do when thinking, so it makes sense that people pace when daydreaming. I watched a video of the guy who researched and coined the term MD, and the movements he mentioned were mostly gestural, but some were similar to the shuckling that Jews do during prayer, which helps increase emotional intensity and concentration.

It doesn't sound like stereotypy. Rather what most people do when they are thinking to themselves.

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Yes, it's definitely coping.
I do it when real life is too much and to 'reverse' embarrassing/upsetting interactions/failures. In my imagination I can be successful, if I can get past the initial reliving of the done situation.

'Rehearsing' gets very stressful though, so I don't count it as a good thing, it's dreadful preparation. I won't stop until the thing itself happens irl and it is rarely ever as I imagined.



To 'escape' I have to be alone. I'm always on 'high alert' mode when people are around and I used to think I did so well to appear 'normal'.

But I've noticed that I do 'involuntary' actions in public without realizing. I 'speak' to myself, no sound, and make faces. Not when interacting though, or so I thought. Comments on my facial expressions are common, like I 'look angry/frowning/confused/don't look at a cop like that', when I'm just listening to what is being said. I'm serious by default, but when a situation is intense and calls for me to have a serious face, I want to smile big? Wtf. Then there are times I smile too much, because I don't know what I should be saying or doing, it's just very uncomfortable, so I smile.



Mine crosses that line. I overdo it and end up feeling worse than when I started, with the fresh reminder that I'm not able to do in real life the things I imagine. Especially knowing it's mostly things that are seen as ordinary, nothing special tasks by most people.

1 thing that strikes me as (potentially ) strange: I don't seem to have a naturally creative imagination like people make it sound like they do..? Elaborate daydreams don't just happen? It has to be based on something that already happened or if in anticipation, I actively search my brain for scenarios that 'fit' that I've 'collected' from somewhere before? Most often it is 'physically' collected data that I work with. I use random #s, it gets very complicated, but that takes off the pressure from my brain and the process becomes more enjoyable than if I were to rely on my brain alone? Is there an explanation for this?

Agreed. I think it makes use of pre-existing disorders, and could worsen because of other disorders, but I don't think that it itself is a disorder. Even if it is a coping mechanism, I don't see it as causing the problems that come by way of excessive day-dreaming. It's more of just a channel of expression, but the origin of the expression itself, and the way the expression uses the channel, is where troubles may be found.

I daydream virtually every waking moment. But that's because I don't know anybody to explore the abstractions that fascinate me, and a confusing world I don't know how to interpret kind of forces me back into my head. Where my daydreams run into trouble is with my OCD and my ADHD. My thoughts switch from one to the next, mostly with coherence, but lacking the necessity, or rationale for even pursuing such topics. It's like my mind is seeking something new to explore, and a thought about why the Israeli-Palestinian conflict will never be resolved, may morph into Palestinians have such boring things to eat, but they're women are really beautiful, but most women in the middle east are probably as hairy as Turks, but what is the gene that could cause women to be so hairy, and is that gene present in men, and what tests would I need to get to see if I'm a carrier of that gene, to "Oh s**t, I have a biology exam tomorrow," to I can't wait till school is over, and all of these thoughts may take place over the course of 2 minutes, or 10. SO I don't blame my day dreaming. I blame my ADHD and OCD. Daydreaming without OCD and ADHD on one topic wouldn't be so bad, because one could have a bit of fun, and then do something else. But when your hyperactive mind constantly needs stimuli and hypotheticals and changes from one thing to the next, it doesn't matter whether or not you daydream, and, daydreaming will only worsen it.