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neongrl
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26 Mar 2007, 5:57 pm

I originally posted this in the Aspie Songs thread, but I'd like some feedback on it so I decided to start a new thread. For those of you who can relate to what I wrote, how do you get out from behind that wall and connect with people? Any tips or success stories?

"What Hurts the Most" by Rascal Flatts - just the chorus. (I don't like country music myself, but I hear it a lot at work.)

What hurts the most
Is being so close
And having so much to say
And watching you walk away
And never knowing
What could have been
And not seeing that loving you
Is what I was trying to do


That part of the song haunts me (especially in the context of the rest of the song - being alone because your partner has left you) - with regards to important people in my life in general and especially my husband. I enjoy being around people but most of the time I don't talk much, don't interact with people much - it's like living trapped as a spectator behind a glass wall, and I know that definitely gives the wrong impression to the people around me. They think I'm ignoring them, they think I'm not interested in them, that I don't care about them/love them... That's certainly not the case, it's just that I don't show my interest/love in the ways they might expect. I'm sure other people around here can relate...



ZanneMarie
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26 Mar 2007, 6:07 pm

For me it's either like watching life through a window or a mirror. I can mimic and people will think that I'm kind of like them, but not quite (no one EVER thinks I'm like them and I'm not talking tiny differences), but I'm strange to them and I make them uncomfortable or fascinated (like a bug in an experiment), but never really connected or at ease. They probably feel like they see me through a window or a mirror as well. I don't believe any of us overcome this, we just pretend. The bottom line is they still know something is off. That might be just my own personal observation, but that's what it is. Now, that doesn't mean they can't like you the way you are, only that you will always be considered different.

I feel close to my husband, my brothers and the people I consider friends because they accept that I am the way I am and will never change. They can handle a relationship with the alien. They don't freak out because I have a sudden meltdown, don't want to be touched or hugged, get tired if they talk too much, won't go out into public much, eat strange food in a strange manner and abruptly get up and leave to go write. They can deal with all of that. I can deal with their NTism. If they can do that, I still see them through a glass, but it's better. I'd say of all of them, I see my husband the least that way. I see him more like through a membrane instead of glass.



neongrl
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26 Mar 2007, 10:50 pm

Some days I feel the same way as you, and I know it's better that way. If you can be at peace with who you are, other people will be more likely to accept you even if you're a little different. But on other days I'm painfully aware of the fact that people who are accepting and aspie-friendly can be hard to find. They're certainly a minority. That's why I feel like I need to find a way to project myself in a more NT-friendly way, for my own dignity (and also so that I'm not hurting other people by giving the impression that I don't want to be around them - that's the biggest thing I'm concerned about right now)... so I can be more at peace with who I am all the time, not just half the time. Being so self-aware and self-critical is no good because it makes you behave in a way that sets off people's freak-radars even more than usual. So I'd like to be happy with my aspieness all the time, but if I can't then I wanna do what I can to improve it.



maldoror
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26 Mar 2007, 10:54 pm

Yes, and you never fully feel like you are being "you," the you that you see in your head, without people to facillitate that personality and are left with an awkward compromise.



Last edited by maldoror on 26 Mar 2007, 11:07 pm, edited 3 times in total.

neongrl
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26 Mar 2007, 11:00 pm

maldoror wrote:
Yes, and you never fully feel like you are being "you," the you that you see in your head


Yeah, there's definitely a disparity there. I know in my head how I want to act, what I want to say/do etc, but I don't do it. In any given situation I know exactly what I'm doing 'wrong', but I can't seem to do what I know I need to do to correct it. I'd really like to get a better understanding of the mechanics behind that phenomenon.



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26 Mar 2007, 11:07 pm

From what I've noticed, the best thing to do is to be as comfortable as possible with yourself and your surroundings, rather than actively trying to make yourself accessible. I think a majority of people are attracted to what they don't understand if it's packaged properly or whatever. If you are comfortable and can make conversation at ease, even if it's what some people would think of as off kilter, you have a much better chance of people wanting to know more about you. No one actually finds small talk interesting, anyway, it's just a way to make themselves comfortable...



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26 Mar 2007, 11:08 pm

Yes, there is a barrier.

All around me people - the stock standard NT type (and I know some nice ones) are so fluid in conversation, and even without words. I am not.

Something they are doing on autopilot I must do by "hand flying the aircraft (me)". When I have been with people I am tired to the point of meltdown. And I have missed so much.

I think that I receive the logical component. I know that there is so much more.


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neongrl
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27 Mar 2007, 9:10 am

maldoror wrote:
From what I've noticed, the best thing to do is to be as comfortable as possible with yourself and your surroundings, rather than actively trying to make yourself accessible. I think a majority of people are attracted to what they don't understand if it's packaged properly or whatever.


Like I said in another post, I know that's the better way to go - the more uncomfortable you are with yourself, the more other people will be uncomfortable with you. And most of the time I am the way you described, just not right now. I'm sure I'll go back to that soon though. But I just couldn't help but wonder, what if I can do something to take away some of the barrier, and make that part of who I am? No one seems to have a solution to that one yet though...



ZanneMarie
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27 Mar 2007, 10:25 am

I've never found a way to really fool them. I've had all kinds of classes and training, but it all comes back to the fact that people are acutely aware that I am different, but they don't know why. What I've found when I pretend is that they say nothing (because they are being polite), but they notice and it makes them uncomfortable because they don't know whether they should say something or not. Then they don't want to talk to me and I don't know why. Meanwhile they think they are sending me all kinds of signals I "should" pick up on because a normal person would and they become frustrated because I don't pick it up. Since I'm pretending I'm normal, they think I'm being rude. It turns into a mess. For me it works better to just say that I don't get it (which I did long before I knew about Asperger's). That way they know it's not intentional and it won't change. They seem to do okay with that and try to modify so we can communicate.

On the other hand, communicating is exhausting to me, so I usually end up limiting it anyway or they eat up all my time in recovering from encounters with them. I have a very low threshhold for NT conversation. It all wipes me out. All of it. Thankfully, I don't have much actual human contact at work. After work, it really takes a major event for me to be around people. I don't miss it or seek it out. I can deal with my husband but I don't have the desire for more.



Erilyn
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27 Mar 2007, 10:32 am

ZanneMarie wrote:
I've never found a way to really fool them. I've had all kinds of classes and training, but it all comes back to the fact that people are acutely aware that I am different, but they don't know why. What I've found when I pretend is that they say nothing (because they are being polite), but they notice and it makes them uncomfortable because they don't know whether they should say something or not. Then they don't want to talk to me and I don't know why. Meanwhile they think they are sending me all kinds of signals I "should" pick up on because a normal person would and they become frustrated because I don't pick it up. Since I'm pretending I'm normal, they think I'm being rude. It turns into a mess. For me it works better to just say that I don't get it (which I did long before I knew about Asperger's). That way they know it's not intentional and it won't change. They seem to do okay with that and try to modify so we can communicate.

On the other hand, communicating is exhausting to me, so I usually end up limiting it anyway or they eat up all my time in recovering from encounters with them. I have a very low threshhold for NT conversation. It all wipes me out. All of it. Thankfully, I don't have much actual human contact at work. After work, it really takes a major event for me to be around people. I don't miss it or seek it out. I can deal with my husband but I don't have the desire for more.


I could have written this myself!



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27 Mar 2007, 10:50 am

Yes, I can totally relate to this. I told my counselor the other day that I felt like a ghost or shadow of a "real" person in comparison to others. The glass wall is an excellent metaphor! We're always looking in on other people and watching them interact so effortlessly, experiencing all these intricate emotions that we'll never feel, at least not in the same way. It's a very strange paradox, to be separated from other people by your "self!" But yet there are many benefits. We'll always be more emotionally independent and individualistic. It's unlikely we'll ever experience the emotional slavery of being so dependent on the opinions and approval of others. We can't be dependent on what we've never received!!



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27 Mar 2007, 2:43 pm

I often feel like I'm wandering about in a world I don't belong in a bubble.



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27 Mar 2007, 2:58 pm

neongrl wrote:
Some days I feel the same way as you, and I know it's better that way. If you can be at peace with who you are, other people will be more likely to accept you even if you're a little different. But on other days I'm painfully aware of the fact that people who are accepting and aspie-friendly can be hard to find.


That's pretty self-defeating and unlikely you will find someone who will accept you unless you are willing to work at it. NT relationships also require work and compromise and a willingness to change the way you interact with your partner. Each failed transaction can be analyzed for reasons of failure and you can learn from your mistakes. No one wants a relationship with someone who is totally ego-centric and can't compromise. You have to try to meet your partner halfway and also ask yourself what you can give to your partner. It's not just about you. Your problems beome his and his become yours. They become "our" problems and you have to do your share to solve them. That is what a real relationship means.


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27 Mar 2007, 3:49 pm

I only come out from behind the glass when I'm with my Mum or Mary (my 'second' mother), or Michele (who's like an aunt to me). I want to come out from behind the glass for so many more people because I care about them and want to interact with them but I'm a big scardy-cat.



maldoror
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27 Mar 2007, 7:38 pm

SeriousGirl wrote:
neongrl wrote:
Some days I feel the same way as you, and I know it's better that way. If you can be at peace with who you are, other people will be more likely to accept you even if you're a little different. But on other days I'm painfully aware of the fact that people who are accepting and aspie-friendly can be hard to find.


That's pretty self-defeating and unlikely you will find someone who will accept you unless you are willing to work at it. NT relationships also require work and compromise and a willingness to change the way you interact with your partner. Each failed transaction can be analyzed for reasons of failure and you can learn from your mistakes. No one wants a relationship with someone who is totally ego-centric and can't compromise. You have to try to meet your partner halfway and also ask yourself what you can give to your partner. It's not just about you. Your problems beome his and his become yours. They become "our" problems and you have to do your share to solve them. That is what a real relationship means.


I definately didn't mean that you should be egocentric and impervious to change. In fact, for me to be happy with myself I definately can't be like that. In my experience, it isn't worth it to "work" on your personality, because even if you accomplish the outward signs of being normal you can't hold it forever, and it won't be enjoyable to you, which is what a relationship is supposed to be. It's another thing to recognize your mistakes and flaws and try to learn from them...



ZanneMarie
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27 Mar 2007, 7:46 pm

Kezzstar wrote:
I only come out from behind the glass when I'm with my Mum or Mary (my 'second' mother), or Michele (who's like an aunt to me). I want to come out from behind the glass for so many more people because I care about them and want to interact with them but I'm a big scardy-cat.


Do you ever really feel like the glass is gone? I feel closer to some people, but there is always a barrier. The barrier for me is that I can't read the bulk of what they communicate because at least 80% of that is non-verbal and implied. It's unconcious for them and I miss it all or misinterpret it. So the glass is never gone for me. It is better with my husband because he is by nature logical and intellectual so he makes sure he's literal and that he explains everything. He knows I won't get it otherwise. He doesn't get messed up with silly "you shoulds" or anything like that. He knows if I could, I would already be doing it. But, even with him there is still a barrier, it's just not as pronounced. I'm sure he feels like that with me as well. We aren't 100% getting through. On the other hand, most NT/NT couples have that same issue to an even greater degree because most of them aren't as close as we are (for many reasons, children, lack of common interests, etc.), so I can't say it would necessarily be better if we weren't this way and I was normal.

Same with my family. It's not as bad as with others, but the glass is still there.