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Lukeda420
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18 Aug 2015, 10:20 am

^ You have a point? I don't see it. Oh well, you guys were never good at making a cogent argument anyway.

And yeah I'm going to laugh and move on. This is hilarious :D



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18 Aug 2015, 6:29 pm

evilreligion wrote:
By this logic then anyone who might have experienced some kind of bigotry can never be joked about no matter how absurd they are being.

Humor isn't always the appropriate response. Yes, I'm aware of the situation in Palestine, and I've spoken quite candidly about it in the past. I could talk about Israel all day long without ever cracking a joke or a smile (though it be well within my right to do so). Our injustices are ours alone to joke about, just as our scabs and cuts are ours alone to poke at.

evilreligion wrote:
I simply do not believe that anyone can be genuinely outraged by many things SJW's crap on about. Most of the stuff SJW's moan about is utterly trivial.

Trivial to you, maybe. :?



Adamantium
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18 Aug 2015, 9:40 pm

Barchan wrote:
Our injustices are ours alone to joke about, just as our scabs and cuts are ours alone to poke at.

These restrictions on humor can be proclaimed loudly and with a huge sense of the entitlement of the injured party, but that doesn't make them true, just or ethical.

Such thoughts are inimical to a free society and promote oppression, not liberty. Thinking along the lines, "If I could just control all the expressions of those who oppress me then I would be free," is not a road to liberation for any people.



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18 Aug 2015, 11:04 pm

Barchan wrote:
And anyone who associates the word "SJW" with bullying and censorship should rethink their position. There is no SJW problem. If your beef with SJW's is that they yell at you when you make rape jokes or racist comments, then frankly they're not the problem. You are.


If someone says a "naughty" word, and you have a whole heap of people trying to get said person fired from his or her job, then said people are the bullies and are doing their best to censor speech. A bully uses a disproportionate amount of force, or the threat of the same, to get the thing he or she wants. The benevolent man or woman will provide his or her opinion in words, which is an equal amount of force.

The thing about censorship is that you can't come up with an objective consensus on what's offensive. Not to mention you shouldn't hide from words, as doing such gives them inordinate amounts of power over you.



evilreligion
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19 Aug 2015, 1:15 am

Barchan wrote:
evilreligion wrote:
By this logic then anyone who might have experienced some kind of bigotry can never be joked about no matter how absurd they are being.

Humor isn't always the appropriate response.

Not always no. But if one is trying to change something the humour is one of the best weapons. Mocking SJW nonsense is, to my mind, the best way to point out the absurdity of what they do.
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Yes, I'm aware of the situation in Palestine, and I've spoken quite candidly about it in the past. I could talk about Israel all day long without ever cracking a joke or a smile (though it be well within my right to do so). Our injustices are ours alone to joke about, just as our scabs and cuts are ours alone to poke at.

Again you are missing the point. No one is joking about your injustices. The entire joke was about SJWs finding false injustices and using unjust situations in one area to debate in another, like Israel use anti semitism to stop any descusion of Palestine. Do you see the difference? Do you see how the fake accusations of anti semitism has been used to shield Israeli war crimes? Now if you accept that then apply the same logic the various Muslim groups who use islamophobia as a cover for the horrible things they do. And then apply that lenses to sexism and racism.

No one is condoning sexism racism or any other bigotry. I am simply against those terms being exploited to stop discussion and debate.

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evilreligion wrote:
I simply do not believe that anyone can be genuinely outraged by many things SJW's crap on about. Most of the stuff SJW's moan about is utterly trivial.

Trivial to you, maybe. :?

Yes trivial to me and anyone else who is a sensible human being including the vast majority of the oppressed group in question. Do you honest think that a woman in Saudi Arabia gives a s**t about sexism in computer games? Do you think a black man from the slums of la gives a second thought to white people with dreadlocks culturally appropriating? These things are trivial to the minority group supposedly being helped. They are a distraction they simply waste energy on addressing fake problems that only white middle class university students have the time to dream up and worry about.



evilreligion
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19 Aug 2015, 1:28 am

Dillogic wrote:

The thing about censorship is that you can't come up with an objective consensus on what's offensive. Not to mention you shouldn't hide from words, as doing such gives them inordinate amounts of power over you.

Exactly. And anyone can, if they think hard enough, find a way to be offended by pretty much any statement. So now with a little thought any one can ban anything! This is why free speech is the closest thing I have to a sacred truth. I will defend the rights if racists, nazis, sexists snd any other vile scum of humanity to say whatever they want to say. I may not like what they say I may find it deeply offensive insulting and even dangerous but free speech is even more important than that. It is, for want if a better word, sacred because it is free speech from which all our other freedoms come.



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19 Aug 2015, 1:42 am

i am self-diagnosed and the autistic self-advocacy network knew that and accepted me as an autistic writer for their communications team. they are strongly against people without disabilities making decisions for folks with disabilities. their entire board is autistic. they understand that folks my age (59) did not have access to diagnosis when we were young and don't always have a pressing need to get a diagnosis having gotten by so long without one. thinking that a diagnosis makes a person a better representative of the autistic community is unfounded and unfair.



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19 Aug 2015, 2:27 am

cathylynn wrote:
i am self-diagnosed and the autistic self-advocacy network knew that and accepted me as an autistic writer for their communications team. they are strongly against people without disabilities making decisions for folks with disabilities. their entire board is autistic. they understand that folks my age (59) did not have access to diagnosis when we were young and don't always have a pressing need to get a diagnosis having gotten by so long without one. thinking that a diagnosis makes a person a better representative of the autistic community is unfounded and unfair.

I think being autistic makes a person a better representative of the autistic community. I think that many of the SJW's who claim autism are not autistic. They are either frauds or they are mistaken in their self diagnosis. It is one thing for a 59 year old to self diagnose after a lifetime of experience and self reflection and entirely another for a 17 year old kid to do the same.



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19 Aug 2015, 7:29 am

evilreligion wrote:
cathylynn wrote:
i am self-diagnosed and the autistic self-advocacy network knew that and accepted me as an autistic writer for their communications team. they are strongly against people without disabilities making decisions for folks with disabilities. their entire board is autistic. they understand that folks my age (59) did not have access to diagnosis when we were young and don't always have a pressing need to get a diagnosis having gotten by so long without one. thinking that a diagnosis makes a person a better representative of the autistic community is unfounded and unfair.

I think being autistic makes a person a better representative of the autistic community. I think that many of the SJW's who claim autism are not autistic. They are either frauds or they are mistaken in their self diagnosis. It is one thing for a 59 year old to self diagnose after a lifetime of experience and self reflection and entirely another for a 17 year old kid to do the same.


It seems to me that you are saying they can't be autistic because they disagree with you. It also seems that you are of another generation than the people you are complaining about and I wonder if the differences you notice might not be attributable to that. I find the whole anti-free speech tone that seems popular among college students today deeply shocking and unethical, but it does seem to be a thing with those young people.

Your position actually seems more like theirs than you might think. Only the authentic, board certified autistic can legitimately speak on these issues, etc. More than a little like one of the SJWs you find so objectionable.



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19 Aug 2015, 10:43 am

I think that only diagnosed autistic people should speak as autistic people, but others can advocate for autistic people too, without speaking as autistic people.


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19 Aug 2015, 11:17 am

btbnnyr wrote:
I think that only diagnosed autistic people should speak as autistic people, but others can advocate for autistic people too, without speaking as autistic people.


I can't help but notice that your post comes a few posts after cathylynn's:
cathylynn wrote:
i am self-diagnosed and the autistic self-advocacy network knew that and accepted me as an autistic writer for their communications team. they are strongly against people without disabilities making decisions for folks with disabilities. their entire board is autistic. they understand that folks my age (59) did not have access to diagnosis when we were young and don't always have a pressing need to get a diagnosis having gotten by so long without one. thinking that a diagnosis makes a person a better representative of the autistic community is unfounded and unfair.


Do you feel that such public advocacy as an autistic person is unethical without a diagnosis? Or is this idea somewhat flexible and contingent on circumstance and history, as the people at ASAN have evidently concluded?

I am curious to know how you would apply this principle in the complexity of real lives.



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19 Aug 2015, 11:37 am

I didn't read cathlynn's post, so my post is not reply to hers.

I think it is unethical to speak as an autistic person without an official diagnosis.
One can always speak as a person with autistic traits or BAP without misrepresenting anything.
Many parents of autistic children have autistic traits, but are not diagnosed, and the ones I have met don't speak as autistic people, but do mention their autistic traits.

To me, there is nothing complex about this issue of speaking as autistic person.
If someone doesn't have diagnosis, don't speak as autistic person.
There are alternatives that still allow these people to advocate if they want to.


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evilreligion
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19 Aug 2015, 11:55 am

Adamantium wrote:
evilreligion wrote:
cathylynn wrote:
i am self-diagnosed and the autistic self-advocacy network knew that and accepted me as an autistic writer for their communications team. they are strongly against people without disabilities making decisions for folks with disabilities. their entire board is autistic. they understand that folks my age (59) did not have access to diagnosis when we were young and don't always have a pressing need to get a diagnosis having gotten by so long without one. thinking that a diagnosis makes a person a better representative of the autistic community is unfounded and unfair.

I think being autistic makes a person a better representative of the autistic community. I think that many of the SJW's who claim autism are not autistic. They are either frauds or they are mistaken in their self diagnosis. It is one thing for a 59 year old to self diagnose after a lifetime of experience and self reflection and entirely another for a 17 year old kid to do the same.


It seems to me that you are saying they can't be autistic because they disagree with you.

Nope. They could be autistic, they might not be. Who knows? The problem is that no one knows not even them. So when they claim to speak as an autistic person and, more importantly, tell me I need to shut the f**k up because I am not autistic then we have a problem.
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It also seems that you are of another generation than the people you are complaining about and I wonder if the differences you notice might not be attributable to that. I find the whole anti-free speech tone that seems popular among college students today deeply shocking and unethical, but it does seem to be a thing with those young people.

I think it is a generational thing. The millennial generation has been raised under the whole self esteem culture where everyone is special. This I think leads to the narcissism required for the SJW mentality. Or on the other hand I'm just an old fogy who's out of touch.
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Your position actually seems more like theirs than you might think. Only the authentic, board certified autistic can legitimately speak on these issues, etc. More than a little like one of the SJWs you find so objectionable.

hmmm the difference is that they use the "fact" that they are autistic to try and stifle anyone who opposes them. I think anyone can talk about autism ad long as they have done their research and speak from a position if knowledge. I think autistic people themselves clearly have special knowledge that NTS do not and that knowledge needs to be respected. The problem is that anyone can claim to be autistic so if we are going to give special respect to the autistic point if view then I kind if need to see their credentials. Otherwise their opinion is no more valid or worthy of attention than some random nt. now this is not to say that random NT's can't contribute to the discussion it's just they can't claim the extra knowledge and wisdom that an autistic person has. Does that make sense? Sorry I'm rambling a bit and have just had sone really bad news so might not be making sense.



Lukeda420
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19 Aug 2015, 12:04 pm

^ Post your diagnostic results so we can make sure YOU actually are autistic. That's the only way to be sure.

That's the thing about the internet, anyone can say anything. Stop complaining about people complaining. It sounds ridiculous. You know you always have the option of ignoring trolls.

Don't feed the trolls. (although this thread is a veritable buffet for them)



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19 Aug 2015, 12:38 pm

^
Responding to long, substantive and level-headed posts with short, seemingly intentionally befuddled ones full of ridicule and accusations of trolling makes you look like the troll.


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Lukeda420
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19 Aug 2015, 12:42 pm

Wolfram87 wrote:
^
Responding to long, substantive and level-headed posts with short, seemingly intentionally befuddled ones full of ridicule and accusations of trolling makes you look like the troll.


I've following this thread for a little while. I offered my opinion earlier. This thread has been going on circles for a while now.

Besides I meant the supposed "SJW's he's complaining about are the trolls.