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zeldapsychology
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08 Sep 2015, 7:27 pm

Don't laugh at this incident

OMG! you should care about *insert issue* instead of just yourself.

etc.

I have to constantly in my mind be on my toes about what is "socially correct"

It's not "I don't care" it's I don't think to say/do things a certain way and do think/do things a certain way feels draining emotionally.

Bed time you want to go cry into a pillow you spend most of the day OMG! what if you laugh inappropriate?

Oh! NT's don't like you being negative GOTTA be positive!

Also maybe I should do *insert socially correct right thing*

All this going 24/7 today I want to go cry myself to sleep!

HELP!



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08 Sep 2015, 8:09 pm

Hmm. I have learned the social rules that I have so far in trial by fire. I am 41, and still missing a lot of them, as I discover on a near daily basis. That being said, progress is made. I still analyze at night before sleep, and it can be overwhelming if I am analyzing interactions that matter to me A LOT. Luckily, I do not have many of those! :D
What made all the difference was meeting a few people that I could just ask. I literally ask them if what I am doing, saying, expressing is coming out as I intend, or not. I also ask them what things mean...like sayings and mannerisms. I have learned a lot. Also, I picked up some books on body language and BOY! Did that explain a LOT! My god, I had NO idea. Things that I thought I was saying improperly or doing badly were often products of my facial expression or how I was sitting or standing! The NTs put a lot of focus on that, and if you do not get it, you can come off all wrong.


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pete1061
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08 Sep 2015, 11:00 pm

There are social "rules" and there is "polite common sense"
Those "rules" are silly games made up by kids that people keep playing as adults.

And I've found that "being positive", is really more of a rule for health than a social one. Spent years in an abyss, not fun there, focusing on what is wrong with everything and me. Took me too long to catch on to that one.
I was "goth" before they had a term for it. I was so goth I didn't even wear all black. I was a non conformist among non conformists.
Then I recently realized I spent the past 30 years as one of those miserable kids in South Park, sitting out back chain-smoking and lamenting on how horrible the world is.

No, I'm not perfect. I still have my dark days, and Skinny Puppy is still my favorite band ever.
But now I'm trying to mix a little "fun" into all that.

Now I just sit back and detach myself, and watch all those "other" people and their cute little theater they all engage in. The social "game" is quite amusing when you take an objective look at it. You start to wonder why are people even playing it.

If you don't feel "positive" then just detach and be objective.
But spending too much time examining the flaws of anything is detrimental.

Anyway, do you really want to hang out with superficial people who wear masks and put on an "act" all day?


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Kiriae
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09 Sep 2015, 1:09 pm

zeldapsychology wrote:
I have to constantly in my mind be on my toes about what is "socially correct"

It's not "I don't care" it's I don't think to say/do things a certain way and do think/do things a certain way feels draining emotionally.

Bed time you want to go cry into a pillow you spend most of the day OMG! what if you laugh inappropriate?

Oh! NT's don't like you being negative GOTTA be positive!

Also maybe I should do *insert socially correct right thing*

All this going 24/7 today I want to go cry myself to sleep!

HELP!


You should like someone with social anxiety. Once you get rid of it your life will be better.

Sometimes I have such "what if" and "I should/shouldn't" thoughts too, especially if I get depressed but most of the time I just use social rules trial and error method. I do what I consider the right thing, watch the effects and change my ways if I don't like what happens after that or someone tells me I am wrong.

It may not be the best way. Recently I acknowledged that my behavior at school made teachers think I am full of myself and not respecting them and they were wondering why I behave this way and if it is intentional (it is cleared now because I told them I have Asperger).

It made me worried - what if I come across as rude to more people without realizing it?
But I don't think I will change what I do - what's wrong with being bold?

If I start questioning my every move I won't do anything because I cannot read people minds and social rules are not something set in a stone - they tend to change depending of situation. I can't always read the situation and decide which rule applies this time but in my opinion it is better to choose one rule and stick to it, dealing with the effects of making a bad choice if that happens than do nothing out of fear of making a bad choice.



AuroraBorealisGazer
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09 Sep 2015, 3:25 pm

The way I learned (though I still have many socially inappropriate moments), probably won't help you, but it was through less than patient parents. Every slip up in front of my parents led to painfully uncomfortable silent rides home, followed by lengthy beratings. I would be told I was cold, intentionally cruel/hurtful, a b***h, a brat, heartless, etc.

I have definitely learned a lot since I was young, but I still have constant slip ups even when I have the best intentions and think I am being careful. I think as long as you're trying to be conscientious and you're not disregarding how you could make others feel, it's okay to be awkward (and true to yourself).



Earthling
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09 Sep 2015, 3:28 pm

Some from my parents,
some from reactions to my behavior by random people,
some from watching socially able people in school,
some from watching specific videos on youtube,
some from sitcoms and movies,
some from intuitively feeling tension in the room (but I don't know how to resolve it)...
and more...



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09 Sep 2015, 4:16 pm

From pain.

When my actions caused my Dad to yell at me or someone else to get upset or increase in bullying I would write a rule in my head to not do X again. I do not have these rules intuitively but from trial and error. Lots and lots of error.



mild mannered missanthrope
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09 Sep 2015, 5:45 pm

My most important social rule is to always make sure that what I say/do is rooted in kindness and is as productive as possible.

My parents instilled good manners & beyond that I have read a couple of books on formal manners/etiquette. I also maintain a very lengthy list of 'unspoken rules' that I try to review every time I discover a new rule to add (usually by breaking it with horribly embarrassing results).

Temple Grandin & Sean Barron wrote a book "The Unwritten Rules of Social Relationships" which has been helpful and reassuring too.



tetris
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09 Sep 2015, 6:51 pm

I watched/watch a lot of Disney channel. Preteen/early teen shows are quite good for over obvious socially acceptable rules and general social rules and what to do in certain situations. It's a bit sort of in a perfect world sort of situations but it seems to have worked reasonably well, I think.

I also watch an awful lot of friends, ncis etc etc which seems to work in the same way as Disney channel shows but in more adult situations.

I have also learnt that if you can make people laugh you're pretty good. Not jokes but witty remarks, sarcasm that sort of thing. I have become ridiculously good at it.



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09 Sep 2015, 8:28 pm

Oooh, yes, Earthling and Tetris make good points that I forgot...TV and MOVIES.
I still copy them and use the situations and responses in daily life, in fact, it is hard not to, especially if someone says something that I think of as a "prompt" I feel like I NEED to say what comes next in the "script". So hard not to do, but seriously this works. I, too, watch a lot of Disney channel sitcoms. I use a lot of sci-fi stuff, too. This is great in a classroom with students who know nothing of delayed ecolalia, but think I am funny! :mrgreen:


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League_Girl
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09 Sep 2015, 11:20 pm

Reading, watching movies, making up my own social rules like "Do not hug anyone unless they want to be hugged" "Always say 'I'm sorry' when someone tells you the sad news, always laugh after you tell a joke, do not do things to other people you don't like done to you.


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ImAnAspie
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10 Sep 2015, 10:17 am

zeldapsychology wrote:
Don't laugh at this incident

OMG! you should care about *insert issue* instead of just yourself.

etc.

I have to constantly in my mind be on my toes about what is "socially correct"

It's not "I don't care" it's I don't think to say/do things a certain way and do think/do things a certain way feels draining emotionally.

Bed time you want to go cry into a pillow you spend most of the day OMG! what if you laugh inappropriate?

Oh! NT's don't like you being negative GOTTA be positive!

Also maybe I should do *insert socially correct right thing*

All this going 24/7 today I want to go cry myself to sleep!

HELP!


How did I learn social rules?

Never bothered to. That may be why I'm such a social flop. But then again, 'I don't do social'! Couldn't care less about being social. What NT's have to talk about bores me to tears and what I have to talk about, I can tell, bores them to tears also but then again, they're driven to try and be interested in other peoples' stuff whereas I don't give a stuff about their stuff. At least I'm not false like they are!

That may be where I fall down. I mean, that may be where I'm doing it right!

I don't care enough about being sociable to be social! And I don't have a problem with that. Better than being bored out of your skull listening to the drivel they carry on about - politics, work, world events, blah blah blah. Beats me why half of them deem important, what they deem important.

My brother in law was carrying on about some crap like that, and I said to him, "Why do you care so much?" He didn't really have a legit comeback for that. I think I caught him off guard!


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kraftiekortie
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10 Sep 2015, 10:48 am

I learned "social rules" via forced compulsion, mostly.

Later on, I saw the efficacy for some "social rules"--the reason behind them.



glebel
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10 Sep 2015, 10:52 am

I'm 53, so I wasn't diagnosed as a child. It was basically a sink-or-swim culture I grew up in, so I was forced to conform somewhat to societal norms. I compensated by keeping pretty much to myself, and learning to fit into those social situations that I couldn't avoid ( school, church, family reunions, etc.). I ended up being considered harmless but a little odd.


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ImAnAspie
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10 Sep 2015, 11:26 am

glebel wrote:
I'm 53, so I wasn't diagnosed as a child. It was basically a sink-or-swim culture I grew up in, so I was forced to conform somewhat to societal norms. I compensated by keeping pretty much to myself, and learning to fit into those social situations that I couldn't avoid ( school, church, family reunions, etc.). I ended up being considered harmless but a little odd.


Me too. I'm the kind of Aspie they call "Active But Odd"! I do what I have to do to exist but I don't put on the airs and graces for anyone! And I don't even know what normal is, let alone pretend to be it!

What you see is what you get. I can't lie. I can't be false. In fact, I've been told I shouldn't be so open and honest.
I can't be anything different than what I am! He may have been right but I can't do a thing about it.
But I don't care. I'd rather be me than try to be something other people deem as 'right' or 'important'. I just don't care enough about what others think to even begin to think about pretending to be something I'm not.


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Cyllya
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11 Sep 2015, 5:02 pm

I remember the motivation for ethics kicking in when I was six for no apparent reason (OMG, other people have feelings, and I should care!), but I was still an unintentional pest or bully for many years after.

I read a LOT of fiction from age 10 to age 18. Apparently that helps. (TV probably helps too, but in a different way.)

I think relationships are interesting and sometimes read articles about relationship problems or communication problems for the fun of it. After I took a social psychology class, I realized that was essentially the name for my interest, so that has helped me find more info.

I found the classic social skills book How to Win Friends and Influence People useful. It's meant as a guide for NTs to get along with other NTs, but I think it's handy for the rest of us too.

But trial and error was a lot of it. My parents didn't teach me this stuff. I tend to keep my mouth shut most of the time; it's not too hard since I'm not very talkative. I try to be kind to everyone (goodwill tip: carry ibuprophen and/or acetaminophen with you at all times, and offer it to anyone you overhear complaining about a headache :mrgreen: ), and I'm pretty good at not holding a grudge, so even people who are put off by my aloofness, general weirdness, or something I did wrong will usually end up getting along with me.

Here is a list of social techniques that I have learned.

I still have a lot of problems. People tend to like me well enough, but that is because a lot of my quirks are only slightly abnormal in the are where I live (introversion, not much eye contact, etc). I have trouble with people not understandinig me when I'm communicating verbally (and vice versa), which is problem when I'm talking to doctors, other businesses, or colleagues.

Quote:
There are social "rules" and there is "polite common sense"
Those "rules" are silly games made up by kids that people keep playing as adults.


One of the social rules I learned is to avoid the term "common sense" in most cases. :) Things that are obvious to one person aren't necessarily obvious to everyone else, and people will never agree on what common sense is. At best, it's a useless confusing phrase, but more likely, people will be insulted when you use it (because if you suggest they lack common sense, or they should know something they don't know because it's common sense, you are essentially calling them an idiot).

Quote:
Never bothered to. That may be why I'm such a social flop. But then again, 'I don't do social'! Couldn't care less about being social. What NT's have to talk about bores me to tears and what I have to talk about, I can tell, bores them to tears also but then again, they're driven to try and be interested in other peoples' stuff whereas I don't give a stuff about their stuff. At least I'm not false like they are!


You're thinking of how to do small talk or something. Socializing is a lot more than chit-chat or hanging out. If you really don't want to be social, you'll have to go live in a hand-made shelter in the wilderness somewhere, and hope whoever actually owns that section of wilderness doesn't find out.