"Nerd syndrome" - a mild PDD, misnamed as (S-)NLD

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Text which describe for me the "nerd" syndrome ((a) mild pervasive developmental disorder (MPDD) is on that page: http://www.aspergersyndrome.org/Article ... ldren.aspx)

I think that this text below fits to the description of "mild PDD" from the link above, but this PDD is named here as (a subtype of) NLD (I changed the form of the original text):

There are many children with NLD who present primarily with social skills problems and difficulties with interpersonal interactions.

These may manifest as:
- problems making or keeping friends;
- inappropriate social behaviours (e.g., "weird" behaviour in the classroom, unsuitable conversation, etc.);
- lack of understanding of personal space, boundary and privacy issues; difficulty maintaining social conversation (e.g., use of adult jargon with other children, inability to take turns in conversation, etc.);
- "loner" personality;
- fixation on certain topics or interests out of the normal range for their age group, and so on.

Unless their behaviours are disruptive in the classroom, they are more commonly referred by concerned parents than by their teachers.

These children are frequently being diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome, particularly if they are not showing any obvious history of early language difficulties.

It is felt to be very important to examine these children's cognitive profiles very carefully in order to distinguish S-NLD children from those who are more autistic-like, and/or from those whose social problems stem from environmental factors, such as inappropriate or inconsistent parenting, chaotic family background, deprivation, or other related social or behavioural factors.

http://www.access.resources.ldao.ca/mai ... dition.pdf (page 41)

"Nerd syndrome" is misnamed here as "social nonverbal learning disorder". It is also misclassified here as (just) a "learning disorder".

S-NLD is bad, misleading and inadequate name, it looks even more inadequate that the term "schizoid disorder in childhood" or "autistic psychopathy" used earlier to describe Asperger's.

"Nerd syndrome" (especially or at least some "severer" forms of it) appears for me not as (just) a "learning" problem, but rather as a "disturbance of the instinct", form of "narrowing of one's relation to the world outside one" (these two terms are from the beginning of this page: http://www.paulcooijmans.com/asperger/a ... rized.html). Loner personality and fixated interests are definately Aspergian (and even rather autistic) traits (for me not all Aspies have to have such features). Even more serious impairment of nonverbal communication is a PDD trait for me.

I think that "soft" autism has more elastic thinking than "rigid" autism. So "soft" autism will have better theory of mind, central coherence, abstract thinking, imagination, ability to deal with change, often also better development of language skills and less literal thinking, the pattern of sensory issues and stimming behaviors may be also other than in "rigid" ASD.

People with "just NLD" have less "bizarre" symptoms: they do not present more sgnificant social "dysreciprocity", severe dyssemia, obsessiveness, peculiar emotionality and thinking, "stimmability" etc.

I think that "S-NLD" is just a "soft" sort of PDD/autism, and "more autistic-like" children have "classic", "hard", "rigid" sorts of autism.

I think that autistic people may be misdiagnosed as having just "nonverbal learning disorder". For me even most people with "just" NVLD diagnosis have more complex developmental disability than just a "learning problem".

I think that the term NLD is used in definately improper way. It should describe just visual-spatial (maybe also motor) developmental disorder. Not something, which is a serious social, emotional and behavioral problem and is a sort of AS(D)/PDD for me.

I think that people should be not afraid of "harsh" terms such as "autism (spectrum disorder)", "Asperger's", "pervasive developmental disorder". The name "nonverbal learning disorder" looks much more "palatable". But autistic people can also achieve large success in life. They may be important scientists; may have spouses and own children, drive a car such as other people.

what was wrong with leaving in AS? was it not working?

I am from Poland. I had "OCD" because of the fear that I have just a "learning disorder", not a PDD. I received AS diagnosis wen I was about 17. Classic AS ("rigid" autism") does not fit me, classic NVLD also does not fit. I like maps, colors, wrote my "mature" exam from Maths at 100% when I was 18. I may have "moral doubts" about using "privileges" for PDDers (there is special category of disability for people with PDDs in Poland) because I think that I might not have a PDD.

I think that the "case" of "social" NVLD brings confusement and rumors. In North America the diagnosis of NLD is (or was, I do not know what is after publicvation of DSM-V) popular. Most NVLDers are Aspies with PDD for me because of the complexity of their disorder, not just people with learning disability.

There is no Asperger's in DSM-V, only ASD which has three levels of severity. There is also no the term PDD and NLD in DSM-V. Asperger's is not only social communication disorder. It has also other trats which make people with AS dfferent from "NTs", such as specific obsessiveness, atypical emotionality, thinking, actvity anomalies, sensory issues, atypical cognitive profiles (NLD is one of these profiles).

I read about many cases of AS form Poland, rather mostly females. I would not diagnose anyone with "just NLD", despite differences in symptomatology and severity of the disorder.

I think that Aspies may have different types of emotionality and behaviors - some may be idiosyncratic autistics, some may need "normal" social contacts; some are more obsessive, some less.

But I think that tendency to "fixation" on "special interest", tendency to "strange motor movements", inappriopiate laughter, bizarre fears (such as about machines), pragmatic issues, sensory problems are not NLDish traits, but Aspergian.

I read about one woman who named herself as "Aspijka" (cute Polish term for female with AS) and presents features mentioned in previous sentence above (not in so large degree, but presents in my opinion), who was an Aspie for me despite many NLDish traits (looks generally more NVLDish than me - liked fiction literature much since childhood, wanted to play with other children when was little girl), she was in many aspects similar to me. But she was not a "weirdo" like me. She appears to be verbally gifted, I am not sure if she has marked visual-spatial problems - she may be just better with verbal things without more serious traits from NLD profile. I think that she rather does not meet current criteria for AS. But for me she is an "Aspijka", not (just) an "Eneldian" (a person with NLD). I think that Aspies may be also like her - in many aspects evidently different than people with "classic, hard autism". The word "Aspijka" fits to her very well for me ("Aspijka" is a nice word for me, it may be associated in my mind with someone who is nice, emotionally warm, intellectually bright, friendly rather than someone who is significantly autistic). She is "similar to me". I would not name her as an autist, but ("just") NVLD is also inaccurate term for me to describe her.

She has really interesting case of something which I named "aucorigia", "acoria" (broad category of developmental disorders and anomalies which have "specific" (but various in different types of "acoria") social, emotional and behavioral anomalies, the name is from "autocontrast" (asyncronous development) and "originality" (bizarrity)). "Acoria" is for me the generalisation of the term "high-functioning autism" or "relatively mild PDD". Somebody may give other name for something which I called "acoria", but it is one class, one group with one name and one category for me.

One-sided social reactions (lack of reciprocity) and "manic" special interests are rather autistic. I think that there are different sorts of developmental autism, which have different neurobiological profiles.

Is this MPDD a proposed disorder? I haven't heard about such a thing but the article talks about diagnosis.

It's possible that many of these people don't meet the AS or ASD criteria, particularly the non-social symptoms. Whether it should be considered a milder ASD or a different thing should ideally depend on whether it has a different cause. For example, it's possible that in "nerds" the chief cause is more interest in predictable things and less interest in people (I think I'm like that too), while in ASD the chief cause may be being overwhelmed by sensory input (from what I gather from the forums); then again, these things may have the same root cause. AFAIK we know too little about the causes to decide.

(It's also interesting that, according to Wikipedia, PDD-NOS is by far the most common ASD, and AS is rarer even than autism, despite being less pervasive, and thus having less restrictive criteria. On WP I've seen many people suspecting or being diagnosed with AS, but none with PDD-NOS. Under DSM-V there is no distinction though.)

Aren't nerds supposed to be really smart, get good grades and even enjoy doing schoolwork? If there was one thing I was never accused of being in school, it was a nerd. Although I fit the "temperamental artist" mold fairly well.

"Nerd syndrome" is not a diagnosis, but I think that there is something in it. I think that it is other, "softer" sort of developmental autisticity. It may be misnamed mainly as NLD.

The name "nerd" may suggest high intelligence, I read about some children, who early gain ability to speak and (or) read (such as speech before 1 year old and reading before 3), but were really inept and obsessive (such as I), but I do not think that all people with this sort of PDD have to have above-average intelligence. They are Aspies for me, they even sometimes may belong to other type of autists. "Nerd syndrome" is only a nickname.

I probably started to speak when I have 7 months old. I read well before going to elementary school. I was weird from early childhood. I had many "nutty" symptoms such as peculiar "customs", not so typical interests such as road signs. I think that I am very "nerdy". I like to learn in school. I like to write. It is rather pleasant (when there is no need to do it so fast). Learning in school is my very strong point! The name "learning disorder" may look paradoxical in my case. I am not so bad in Maths, I like maps and colors, but I think that I have NLD profile. I am rather a verbal thinker.

I read about a man who has adequate psychomotor development in infancy, but later has many strange symptoms and had even a learning program for children with mild intellectual disability at the beginning of elementary school. Now he has Master's Degree in a humanistic subject and probably is on post-graduate studies! His PIQ was below 55 (on the range of mild ID, which suggests severe NLD - but I think that this NLD is a symptom of PDD, not "main" developmental disorder itself) when he had tests when he was 13. He is rather a verbal thinker, he wrote once that he has "intuitive" theory of mind. He has AS diagnosis.

There was an other person from Poland on WP, who said first word when was 9 moths old and has good reading ability in before the age of 3 (she wrote nearly 4000 posts on this forum). I read about her symptoms and she is not only an Aspie for me, but even autistic and suppose that her ASD has genetic and perinatal etiology. She liked fiction literature since childhood, but is a visual thinker and had problems with Maths (these traits are contrary to mine ). She probably has no diagnosis at all.

I think that all three people described above have PDDs (ASDs), not (just) learning disabilities. I think that "autistic spectrum" is rather a ballpark than a spectrum and ASDs have varied etiologies and sorts. Social ineptitude (manifested as social communication disorders (especially marked dyssemia), failures in social relationships, often also limited social reciprocity) and "weirdnesses" such as "obsessive" interests, bizarre customs, rituals and fears, strange motor behaviors, sensory problems are symptoms of ASD/PDD.

I think that the name NLD can't be used to describe main developmental disorder of people who present social ineptitude and "weirdnesses" mentioned above. So I think that many PDDers and Aspies are MISDIAGNOSED with "nonverbal learning disorder". It may lead to the ignorance of their problems. For me it is also a "logical" error. I think that the definition of PDD is too strict (i think that just "weirdness" is characteristic of them, not necessarily "restricted and repetitive pattern of behaviors and activities"). The name learning disorder should mean only disorders which are mostly scholastic difficulties. When a "learning disorder" makes a person so inept socially and "weird", it is a PDD (ASD) for me.

I think that the picture of F84.5 (a "mild PDD") is wrongly associated with classic autism. I think that more severe cases of AS (F84.5) are rather cases of atypical autism (F84.1 in ICD-10), they are atypical cases of "hard" autism with marked rigidity of thinking, serious lacks in theory of mind, often also severe sensory integration problems.

I think that F84.5 in ICD-10 should represent something other than "Kanner(-like) PDDs" which are F84.0 (childhood autism) and F84.1 (atypical autism). I think that F84.5 should be less rigid, has less language problems. It fits to something which is misleadingly named as "the syndrome of nonverbal learning disabilities" in Northern America. I think that in ICD-11 there should be a PDD which will be a "counterpart" of the disorder misnamed currently as "nonverbal learning disorder". "NLD" without social ineptitude and "weirdness" is for me a sort of "broader phenotype" of that PDD.

"Nerd syndrome" is probably about social ineptitude and "weirdness". It is not a "learning disability", but socio-emotional-behavioral disorder (PDD for me). I think that it often has abnormalities in areas such as sensory, motoric and cognitive. It may not be genetic disorder. It may be the result of prenatal, perinatal issues or problems in health in early infancy.

I am autistic, have no interest and no higher preceived levels of intelligence. My IQ is 104 and I dropped out of high school, have problems with athority and people around me. I also suspect that I have multiple learning disabilities as well.

I don't even have an obsession.

I am hated by the and they are hated by me, yet they still want to imprison me psychologically despite what I do to try to get out.

I wish I was an actual nerd instead of this bum which gives me some typed of drive on my self worth rather than this mutated freak. Infact nerds are one of the only few people that I somewhat respect. I despise people that are around me.

I have rather learning talent than disorder. I have no problems in telling time from the clock, I like maps (even really much), wrote my "mature" exam from Maths perfectly when I was 18. It is in opposition to some groups of NLD traits.

I am profoundly "nerdy" - it means that I have appreciable intellectual abilities, large social ineptitude and a lot of obsessiveness. I had very poor eye contact and other anomalies in body language, marked problems with peers (such as school mobbing), idiosyncratic, restricted social needs; many "special" (atypical, "obsessive-like" interests), perseverations on unusual topics, peculiar customs or rituals...

Nerd = intelligence + obsession + social ineptitude. I do not wear glasses and I am not so interested in programming (IT) and fiction literature I think that there may be a stereotype of a nerd as a person who wears glasses and has talent in IT and (or) likes fantasy books. I liked road signs, maps, various games, non-fiction literature, chemical substances, some psychiatric and psychological topics (such as AS or NVLD).

I think that my disorder would be misnamed as NVLD in America due to my (at least in my opinion) flexible thinking, verbal thinking style, not so severe sensory issues. But I was diagnosed with a PDD in Poland.

I think that NVLD is a serious and complex developmental disability, not just a learning disorder. Many people appear to be misdiagnosed in my opinion. I want to change the terminology. The name NVLD should be not used to describe something which makes a person weird and inept! Let's name it as a PDD. Without words such as "learning" or "communication" in the name. I nicknamed it as a "nerd syndrome", I saw the article about "Kids called nerds". Other nickname for this relatively mild PDD is "soft autism". I also coined the term "hyperlogia" (hyper - "over" and logos - "word" in Greek) to notice good development of verbal skills (such as grammar abilities, speech, reading) in "hyperlogia", which is a PDD for me. And "hyperlogia" and higher functioning classic ASDs are examples of the disorders from the broad category of "aucorigia" (shortened: "acoria", ACR) (name form "autocontrast" (asynchronous development) and "originality" ("bizarrity", "weirdness")). ACR is developmental socio-emotional-behavioral disorder which is not caused by intellectual disability or the lack of ability to use speech to communicate. It is generalization of the term "mild pervasive developmental disorder".

Last edited by nca14 on 25 Nov 2014, 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

My thoughts exactly. I choose to identify with Asperger's Syndrome (AS) because, while the idea of an autism spectrum makes sense psychologically, I believe that the phrase autism-spectrum disorder (ASD) is too one-size-fits-all for my taste. Besides, why not continue to recognize the man who first recognized those with AS?

I think that the definition of AS was "narrowed" by associations with "classic" autism. The word "Aspie" looks cute for me. In Polish language some people on Polish AS forum used the word "Aspijka" to describe a female with AS, that word is really nice to me.

I think that AS should not be associated with "classic" ASD. In ICD-10 there is F84.5 - Asperger syndrome. Childhood autism is F84.0, atypical autism is F84.1. Between F84.1 and F84.5 there are also three rare and severe PDDs (such as Rett's syndrome (F84.2) and childhood disintegrative disorder (F84.3)). It looks that F84.5 should be different than F84.0 and F84.5 due to its position. I think that in the new ICD (ICD-11) "F84.5" should be for something which is now misleadingly named as "nonverbal learning disorder". It is associated rather with verbal thinking abilities, not visual, unlike classic autism. It has more flexible mind than "classic" ASD. So F84.5 should be for "NVLD" (the name has to be changed because it is misleading) and more "classic" forms of AS should be classified rather as "atypical (classic) autism". I think that people with HFA and "NVLD" should be in ONE category - PDDs.

That IS cute. What is the masculine form of the word?

I have moderate-to-high-functioning autism (as I may have mentioned before I am diagnosed HFA because I have high intellectual functioning apparently, but I am not really functioning that highly in real life). I am very much obsessed about the medical sciences (especially anything to do with the brain) and trains. However I don't really talk much to people about them, because I don't talk much to anyone in real life. Online I like sharing my knowledge, but for practical reasons only. Such as, if someone posts online about a medication, I will tell them what I know about it. In real life I am sometimes asked about medical sciences or medications, especially by my AS friend, but I don't go out of my way to talk to people about it.

I am ostensibly autistic apparently. I think I am more autistic than classic "nerd", by a long way.

I agree with SteelMaiden's posting. I'm HFA, officially diagnosed Asperger's Syndrome, but I feel the best descriptor of how I am is "autism". So, that's what I tell people.

I don't see "Nerd Syndrome" as being a proper descriptor for me.

Hi, high functioning refers to IQ of average or above. It does not refer to social or emotional day-to-day functioning life. Theoretically it is possible for someone with Aspergers/HFA to have problems with day to day functioning in life on a level with an individual with Kanners Autism (i.e "LFA").

Masculine form - "Aspijczyk" - is not so cute for me.

I have "heavy" obsession about "acoria" (AS and similar conditions). At the beginning of October 2014 I had it more "severe" because I did not get medications (now I get it again and "obsessiveness" is not so severe). I have "obsessive" doubts about my PDD/AS(D). Some "Aspijkas" are "heavily" fascinating for me. I may be more interested in females with "Asperger's" than in males.

Is someone equally or ever more obsessed about such conditions?

I have talent to verbal thinking. I do not need "translation" from picture thinking to verbal thinking. I may "have" quite constant monologue in my head. It is useful and practical in school. But I do not like fiction literature. I am not so interested in foreign languages (but my English is not so bad, but I do not think that it is especially good), I was rather poor in spoken English. In my studies level B2 in a foreign language was compulsory. So I have B2 in English (I got 4 - "good", not 5 "very good" at the B2 exam).

I had some traits which do not fit to NVLD so much (are even rather opposites!):

- I like maps much, I liked watch and draw them, i have no problems with telling time from "typical" clock, I liked to draw graphs
- I like visual stimuli, "living" colors, not black and white things; sight is very important sense for me, I have visual fantasies, once I had a "serie" of about 20 night with dreams, my dreams are often about my living place, roads, similar things, they are rather (only) visual, may be complex, interesting
- I have engineer degree and wrote my "mature" exam at 100% (when I was 18)
- I thought about hyperspace (was interested in it), tried to imagine something in 4 dimensions (such as 5-cell); I was also interested in colors other than we can see

Do you think that I would receive diagnosis of "pure" NVLD in America?

True, it isn't as cute as "Aspijkas," but I still like it. I collect unique words and colloquialisms, even from languages other than English. Thanks!