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C2V
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15 Dec 2015, 2:50 am

I know many people don't recognise or understand the purpose of social hierarchy, myself included, but I ran into an interesting example - I don't ordinarily watch any television as it only increases my sense of non-comprehension of the human race, but stuck in a doctor's office who was running 40 minutes late I had no choice but be exposed to it. On the TV was a woman who was a fashion designer, talking about clothing. Apparently some well known actor was recently photographed wearing the clothes she designed, and this designer was going on and on about how wonderful this was, how she was so honoured that this actor would deign to wear her clothing label, how amazing it was that this person was seen and photographed in her clothes she could hardly believe it.
Now, I understand the economic reasons behind this designer's satisfaction, but that relates to this weird social status of celebrities too.
I like to watch movies as much as anybody, and if an actor in it portrays a character effectively or plays a character I find interesting, I'm fully capable of being appreciative of that person's work. If they're in several films I liked, I might buy a ticket to see other movies they're in, since I liked them in several others. If I ever met them, I might comment on just that - that I enjoyed the part they played in whatever film, and I considered it very well acted.
What I don't understand is this crazed veneration people give to celebrities like film stars and singers, etc. It's almost worship, like they are so far above normal people that they're almost gods. You see people behaving in the most embarrassing, self-demeaning ways toward celebrities, too, I wonder how they stand it themselves.
I don't care about who they're married to or their children or what they thought about unrelated topics, of the sort you see in magazine headlines in the supermarket. It's none of my business, and is the sort of boring fodder of everyday life. Why should I care?
I just don't get it. Nor do I do it myself. Other less extreme examples might be teachers who I consider knowledgeable - I will likely want to talk about the subject with that person so I can learn, or attribute more attention to their opinion, and I am always respectful no matter who a person is, but I am not going to be gushing all over the person and falling over myself, or venerating them in any extreme fashion.
Celebrities have the outward appearance at least of being atop modern western social hierarchy. Why?
Anyone have any insight into the reason, purpose, or psychology behind this elevated social status people seem to attribute to celebrities? Do you buy into it yourself?


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SnailHail
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15 Dec 2015, 3:33 am

Humans are social mammals and socializing is what helped us evolve. Humans have a desire for power and social hiearchy with celebrities is one way that isn't full of blood shed to get. Status is everything to humans. Getting attention especially positive attention means a lot to people. It is a form of status as it shows they're desired by everyone. Celebrities are basically modern kings and queens as they get treated like gods because of what they possess not only fortune but attention as well. Some people's lives are boring or they're just sheep so they obsess with celebrities to vicariously live through them.

Why else do people at sports games get violent or upset when their team loses, some people even consider athletes a part of their family even though they never met them in their lives and that athlete probably doesn't even know they exist.

Fame and fortune also feeds the human ego. Take a look at Phil Fish he made a game called Fez but because of the success of the game he developed a huge ego, now everyone can't stand him. Because of things like this I can respect and like a persons work but I don't have to kiss their ass.

It also has to do with earning the respect of others, some rappers state how girls in high school hated their existance but once they became successful they wanted to get with them. The veneration a rapper can get along with the money makes them a high quality man that women want for themselves to show off as their own achievement.

I believe society also just goes with people that have authority. Like that test of a man told to electrocute someone and did it just because someone with authority told him to do it. Miligram's Obedience to authority can show how sheep like people can be if someone with authority tells them to do it. I people one trait of people on the autism spectrum is a disregard for authority. Some people may hate autistics because they don't stroke their egos like everyone is doing because of their authority as the authority is only a social construct. A celebrities veneration and fortune can be seen as authority, I've seen people lash out at others for criticising a famous person like it was their mother that was a saint. It is interesting considering we're not social insects were they're basically genetically programmed to follow a hiearchy considering how people act with authority and celebrities.

I often seperate authority from a person as they're a human being like anyone else, they can abuse it, be wrong, have faults, I can follow the authority that they're allowed to have, the power they have is socially constructed. (I'm not saying I'm going to disobey a cop though) People seem to associate authority with power and with power humans can be corrupt, develop big egos that demand everyone that is not at their level of authority to bow down.

I think this is one thing that divides NTs and Autistics as socializing is almost like a religion and big game for them NTs which is why they get pissed off at autistics for not even following the most irrelevant and petty social rules.



Qimera
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15 Dec 2015, 9:52 am

"Starsuckers" Documentary

Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlvLr7DSbog
Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd8O6rhIGo8

If these links stop working, just search youtube for "Starsuckers", someone has usually uploaded it. It's feature length.



SocOfAutism
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15 Dec 2015, 12:14 pm

One of my cousins is a "B list" celebrity. He's on TV all the time and people make Internet memes of him. He's only my cousin, so I don't hang out with him or anything. I haven't seen him in years since I haven't been going to family functions on that side of the family. He'd only show up occasionally himself. We have a big family.

It's weird to see a regular old person from your family revered and adored as if they're something special, when you happen to know them in person.



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15 Dec 2015, 12:59 pm

It comes down to social hierarchy, but celebrities also offer entertainment. Just think about all the crazy messed up acts some celebrities end up doing in their narcissistic hybris.

I love the words ordinary and average and very much like to be that way. Bill Cosby was an average person in my eyes. He was famous, yes, but whatever he did as his job didn't differ from mine in value. He didn't even posses any kind of unearthly talent that wouldn't be found in millions and millions of other people. He was just famous. I hear people refer to e.g. some musicians as "modern day Da Vinci's" when they in my eyes don't clearly come even close in their engineering and drawing skills. :D Maybe in musicianship, but that's not the same as being some uomo universale.

The only way Bill Cosby isn't average in my eyes is that most average persons that I at least know haven't serially drugged and raped women. Was it the fame and power that made him become a complete a-hole, or was he an A(hole) lister to begin with, and the quest for fame was just a part of it?

In my opinion also this public talk "I suffer from fame, everyone wants a piece of me" is in a way a reflection of narcissism. I am so important that people think about ME all the time. I work in customer service and oh boy, I must suffer for everyone wants a part of me. I better sue those people for approaching me. Those people follow my every move... :D

I believe a person becoming famous faces a kind of an existential crisis - a kind of a crisis equivalent to a survivor's guilt. Why me? What right I have? They often unconsciously answer it: I must be special, something more than others. Godly almost. And that ultimately starts to also serve as their inner right to these messed up and egoistic acts.



slave
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15 Dec 2015, 4:38 pm

Qimera wrote:
"Starsuckers" Documentary

Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlvLr7DSbog
Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd8O6rhIGo8

If these links stop working, just search youtube for "Starsuckers", someone has usually uploaded it. It's feature length.


Thanks for the recomm. looks interdesting so far. :mrgreen:



Earthling
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15 Dec 2015, 4:53 pm

Qimera wrote:
"Starsuckers" Documentary

Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlvLr7DSbog
Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd8O6rhIGo8

If these links stop working, just search youtube for "Starsuckers", someone has usually uploaded it. It's feature length.

Watched. Very interesting.



Varelse
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15 Dec 2015, 6:44 pm

I have a tendency to gush when talking about Oliver Sacks, Daniel Kahneman, and Jane Goodall (among others too numerous to list). Does that count? They're more famous than most people, but I'm not sure how many are 'celebrities' or even if they belong in the category described in the OP.



slave
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15 Dec 2015, 9:47 pm

Varelse wrote:
I have a tendency to gush when talking about Oliver Sacks, Daniel Kahneman, and Jane Goodall (among others too numerous to list). Does that count? They're more famous than most people, but I'm not sure how many are 'celebrities' or even if they belong in the category described in the OP.


You probably admire them because of their merit, not because they're on some stupid magazine cover.

I'm like you, I admire Lawrence Krauss, Sean Carroll, Ben Goertzal, Hugo de Garis, John von Neumann, David Deutsch, Davidad, and 100's of others.

I admire them because they have devoted their lives and considerable talent to both understanding and explaining the Universe.

OTOH, I despise the Jersey Shore/Housewives of Beverly Hills types for the pathetic, shallow, narcissistic candy floss that they are....Justin Beaver :jester: ...don't get me started :evil:



C2V
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16 Dec 2015, 9:29 am

Quote:
Humans are social mammals and socializing is what helped us evolve. Humans have a desire for power and social hiearchy with celebrities is one way that isn't full of blood shed to get. Status is everything to humans. Getting attention especially positive attention means a lot to people.

And -
Quote:
I believe society also just goes with people that have authority. Like that test of a man told to electrocute someone and did it just because someone with authority told him to do it.

It can't possibly be that simple, can it? If so I know why this site is called wrong planet - autistics aren't human by these standards. Attention of any kind is hazardous in my experience, and I don't understand status at all. What is the point of it? What benefit does it give? I have been in jobs where I had power and I hated it. Does no one question this? Examine it?
Quote:
A celebrities veneration and fortune can be seen as authority, I've seen people lash out at others for criticising a famous person like it was their mother that was a saint.

And -
Quote:
Why else do people at sports games get violent or upset when their team loses, some people even consider athletes a part of their family even though they never met them in their lives and that athlete probably doesn't even know they exist.

I've observed this too. People who support whatever football team will often say things like "we won!" Um no, you were sitting on the couch watching. They won, the players on the field. This kind of thinking seems to rely on a personal identification with a particular group as an extension of oneself. Therefore they are you, and any criticism against them is taken as a personal insult. This is apparently the basis of social belonging, which is likely why I don't understand or experience it. It doesn't make any sense. I remember watching the World Cup soccer, and someone asked me "why are you even watching this game, we're not even playing!" I assume they meant the country where I live wasn't playing. Never mind that it was an exciting and well played match. The identification wasn't there so apparently it wasn't worth watching.

Quote:
I'm like you, I admire Lawrence Krauss, Sean Carroll, Ben Goertzal, Hugo de Garis, John von Neumann, David Deutsch, Davidad, and 100's of others.

I admire them because they have devoted their lives and considerable talent to both understanding and explaining the Universe.

This attitude is close to what I meant when I mentioned teachers I consider knowledgeable, whether secular or religious. Admiration for merit or knowledge is not the same as this obsessed worship directed at celebrities. Professor Brian Cox is an example of someone I admire in a similar area - he is intelligent, knowledgeable in subjects that interest me, and has a refreshing humility and lack of ego/elitism about it. That doesn't mean I would treat him any differently to anyone else. Again, if I ever met him I would be keen to discuss physics and learn more about what he knows on the subject, and relay how interesting I have found his work. I'm not sure how to describe the difference between simple admiration for someone's knowledge or talent and this ridiculous behaviour people display toward celebrities. Anyone help me out here ?


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Varelse
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16 Dec 2015, 11:14 am

C2V wrote:
This attitude is close to what I meant when I mentioned teachers I consider knowledgeable, whether secular or religious. Admiration for merit or knowledge is not the same as this obsessed worship directed at celebrities. Professor Brian Cox is an example of someone I admire in a similar area - he is intelligent, knowledgeable in subjects that interest me, and has a refreshing humility and lack of ego/elitism about it. That doesn't mean I would treat him any differently to anyone else. Again, if I ever met him I would be keen to discuss physics and learn more about what he knows on the subject, and relay how interesting I have found his work. I'm not sure how to describe the difference between simple admiration for someone's knowledge or talent and this ridiculous behaviour people display toward celebrities. Anyone help me out here ?

Halo effect, maybe? They are famous, popular, rich, and socially successful by the standards of the WEIRD culture. People therefore may attribute to them superiority in other areas, even though they have not demonstrated it, or have even demonstrated great weakness. Consider, for example, what happened to Tiger Woods. How many of his fans and sponsors felt shock and betrayal which was completely inexplicable if not for the halo effect?



Varelse
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16 Dec 2015, 11:16 am

slave wrote:
I admire Lawrence Krauss, Sean Carroll, Ben Goertzal, Hugo de Garis, John von Neumann, David Deutsch, Davidad, and 100's of others.

I admire them because they have devoted their lives and considerable talent to both understanding and explaining the Universe.

This list made my heart beat a little faster, as none of these people are on my list (yet). I love "meeting" new thinkers, so I'll be looking these people up. Thanks for sharing a part of your list.



Earthling
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16 Dec 2015, 11:27 am

I've watched the movie "Starsuckers" posted here.
One thing that was said there is that "new generations" of celebrity/famousness-crazed people are fostered by today's media.

I wonder what percentage of young people (independent of neurology) defy that culture.
Most kids have a lot of exposure to the publications of the media these days, so... :?



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16 Dec 2015, 1:18 pm

slave wrote:
You probably admire them because of their merit, not because they're on some stupid magazine cover.


Speaking of admiring someone on a magazine cover. Check out this gorgeous chick. Don't you just LUST after her body. Just look at that perfect skin. Photoshopped to perfection. Um! maybe she was a little too Photoshopped. he he he!!

Image



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16 Dec 2015, 7:19 pm

C2V wrote:
I know many people don't recognise or understand the purpose of social hierarchy, myself included, but I ran into an interesting example - I don't ordinarily watch any television as it only increases my sense of non-comprehension of the human race, but stuck in a doctor's office who was running 40 minutes late I had no choice but be exposed to it. On the TV was a woman who was a fashion designer, talking about clothing. Apparently some well known actor was recently photographed wearing the clothes she designed, and this designer was going on and on about how wonderful this was, how she was so honoured that this actor would deign to wear her clothing label, how amazing it was that this person was seen and photographed in her clothes she could hardly believe it.
Now, I understand the economic reasons behind this designer's satisfaction, but that relates to this weird social status of celebrities too.
I like to watch movies as much as anybody, and if an actor in it portrays a character effectively or plays a character I find interesting, I'm fully capable of being appreciative of that person's work. If they're in several films I liked, I might buy a ticket to see other movies they're in, since I liked them in several others. If I ever met them, I might comment on just that - that I enjoyed the part they played in whatever film, and I considered it very well acted.
What I don't understand is this crazed veneration people give to celebrities like film stars and singers, etc. It's almost worship, like they are so far above normal people that they're almost gods. You see people behaving in the most embarrassing, self-demeaning ways toward celebrities, too, I wonder how they stand it themselves.
I don't care about who they're married to or their children or what they thought about unrelated topics, of the sort you see in magazine headlines in the supermarket. It's none of my business, and is the sort of boring fodder of everyday life. Why should I care?
I just don't get it. Nor do I do it myself. Other less extreme examples might be teachers who I consider knowledgeable - I will likely want to talk about the subject with that person so I can learn, or attribute more attention to their opinion, and I am always respectful no matter who a person is, but I am not going to be gushing all over the person and falling over myself, or venerating them in any extreme fashion.
Celebrities have the outward appearance at least of being atop modern western social hierarchy. Why?
Anyone have any insight into the reason, purpose, or psychology behind this elevated social status people seem to attribute to celebrities? Do you buy into it yourself?


I don't really care about celebrities. But if I saw one I'd probably want an autograph and would be excited. Something about celebrities seems unreal so seeing one out in the wild would be cool.

I don't even have favorite actors. Well, there's Russell Crowe and James Franco but I only would watch their movies if I was at least slightly interested in the topic. I haven't sought out their movies specifically. And I definitely don't go crazy for them on social media or refer to them as my husband.

Celebrities have elevated status because 1) most of them are considered very good looking 2)they're rich and 3) they are known by millions of people. I don't care about social status in general so maybe that's why celebs have little effect on me.



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17 Dec 2015, 2:50 am

I never really cared about social status or celebrities except I have an obsession with the iCarly star, Miranda Cosgrove & that's only because I developed a huge crush on her & fell in love.


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