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mishtheelf
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15 Jan 2016, 4:54 pm

Any grammar errors or deviations from predictable patterns particularly irksome? Discuss! I will start:

Forums... or forae?



Grammar Geek
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15 Jan 2016, 5:21 pm

Whoever invented "fora" or "forae" just seems like they wanted to be a smartass. I say "forums."

The grammar mistakes that make me the angriest are "everyday" used as an adverb when it should be "every day" and "woah" instead of "whoa." It doesn't rhyme with "Noah," people. I hate these because of how common they are—I see them incorrect more often than I see them correct.

I also don't like seeing two hyphens instead of an em dash, but most people don't know how to type em dashes, so I can usually tolerate it.



mishtheelf
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15 Jan 2016, 5:32 pm

Two that still bother me but I am trying to get over are using "literally" to mean "figuratively," and using "so" to mean "very" (as in, "I love you so much.") It has been done to such a great extent that one can actually find the misuses as correct definitions now, but they still feel quite wrong.



naturalplastic
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15 Jan 2016, 6:04 pm

The word "forum" is borrowed from Latin into English.

In the word's original habitat in Latin the plural would be "Fora" (or something like that. I didnt actually study Latin).

But the words now lives in English so just go ahead and use the English plural and just stick that S on to make it "Forums". Folks who insist on "fora" and just pretentious jerks. The word is part of the English language now. So treat it that way.



mishtheelf
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15 Jan 2016, 6:16 pm

Missing the point: I don't care if it is forums or forae, I just wish English used a consistent rule for borrowing words. Octopi for octopus, but forums for forum. It is simply inconsistency that bugs me, not that word in particular or which pattern is chosen. It happens because in any living language, hundreds or thousands (or more) are adding to the language at the same time, and they have different opinions on what pattern to use, so multiple patterns arise simultaneously. To be annoyed by it doesn't make a person pretentious, it makes them annoyed.



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15 Jan 2016, 6:21 pm

Actually, "octopus" has three acceptable plural forms: octopuses, octopi, or octopodes.



mishtheelf
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15 Jan 2016, 6:22 pm

:D Well played



mishtheelf
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16 Jan 2016, 4:17 am

Incidentally, fora is also an acceptable plural form in English of forum.



naturalplastic
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16 Jan 2016, 4:46 am

mishtheelf wrote:
Missing the point: I don't care if it is forums or forae, I just wish English used a consistent rule for borrowing words. Octopi for octopus, but forums for forum. It is simply inconsistency that bugs me, not that word in particular or which pattern is chosen. It happens because in any living language, hundreds or thousands (or more) are adding to the language at the same time, and they have different opinions on what pattern to use, so multiple patterns arise simultaneously. To be annoyed by it doesn't make a person pretentious, it makes them annoyed.


I was trying to reassure you. Not accuse you.

I didnt say "you are being pretentious".

Wasnt sure where you were coming from,but my point was that you seemed to be worried about the opinions of folks who are being pretentious, and giving those opinions more weight than they deserve. Most users of WP (which is a "forum", with "subforums") yak about how WP "compares to other forums", and about "which subforums of WP do you frequent?". And thats all fine. If you hear someone say "you should say "fora and not forums" then dont worry about it."Fora" is just bs. That was my point.

But apparently even that isnt exactly where you're coming from - you seemed to have some excessive need for order (understandable for an immigrant nonnative speaker trying to learn English, but a bit unusual for a native speaker who is already obviously facil in the language).

I dunno. "Octopi" is a bit more asthetically pleasing, and easier to say than "octopuses", so it could evolve into a consistant rule that "when you borrow from a foreign language, and the word ends with s, then dont use the s ending".

If borrowed words bother you so much then how do handle the inconsistencies in English in its own homegrown words?

There are no words more basic and centrally Anglo Saxon than "child" "man" "brother" , "ox", and "cow".

But when we make them plural we dont say: childs, or mans.

And the same person will flip back and forth between "cows" and "cattle" (make up your mind!). And though in everyday conversation we do pretty much consistently say "brothers", in high blown rhetoric in political speeches, and in religious sermons,and funeral orations, we revert to the archaic word "brethren" ( but we NEVER say "sisteren"). Why is it:men, women, children,oxen, and brethren, but never "sisteren"?

And while we are on the subject...here's a poser.

What is the plural of "attorney general"? :D

Is it "attorney generals"?

Or is it "attornies general"?

Or is it neither of the above? :lol:



mishtheelf
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16 Jan 2016, 5:09 am

Pretty sure "attournies general."

Yes, I am a native speaker, but learning all the inconsistent "rules" was annoying. As an adult, looking back, I can see it more like a history lesson, figuring out where various words and usages came from, and it is tolerable. I rarely think about it now, it just came to mind that other folks might be annoyed by grammatical inconsistency as well, and it could be fun to share. But yes, much of English basically has to be memorized, as there are so many conflicting rules. I guess that is why it is considered among the more difficult languages to pick up.

Sorry for my misunderstanding of your misunderstanding of my misunderstanding of plurals on borrowed words. I don't really know if I was offended or not. I have a hard time noticing what feelings are attached to. Consciously, though, I was trying to explain rather than argue, but was confused, maybe flustered. I guess I am so accustomed to people arguing for no good reason that I heard an argument where one did not exist. Talking with fellow asd folks is going to be refreshing, I think (very new here, recent diagnosis).



Spiderpig
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16 Jan 2016, 5:46 am

Octopi should be no more acceptable than forae. Neither is a native English plural, and both are wrong in Latin.


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LaetiBlabla
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16 Jan 2016, 6:15 am

Grammar Geek wrote:
Actually, "octopus" has three acceptable plural forms: octopuses, octopi, or octopodes.


I find it funny because an octopus also has 3 hearts :)

This was a parenthesis to this interesting site. I continue reading without commenting as English is a foreign language for me (or "to me" oops?)
...hope there are not too many offending grammar mistakes in my post :)