Any syndrom other than AS with low empathy and Theoy.O.mind?

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omid
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02 Mar 2016, 10:34 am

I'm kind of clueless about what could the problem be with me.
doctors don't agree with me about having AS. apparently I DO use idioms and sayings when I talk , although i use them randomly and don't understand them when other people use them. I move my hands in the air when I talk. Totally not AS-wise. I certainly do not behave like someone who has severe or even moderate AS. They keep saying I have "undifferentiated Schizophrenia (without productive symptoms)" meaning I do not have hallucinations or delusions.
I also very seldom flap my hands and jump around and stuff. it's absolutely negligible. and no one ever notices. I used to have sensory overload and tics but the antipsychotics take care of those too.

But the one thing that makes me think I'm absolutely AS is that I totally lack empathy, and much more so, theory of mind. I mean, I don't get s**t about people's feelings and what they say between the lines. seriously! I' don't understand S**T. Also in daily situations, like practical situations. like when I (literally) need to get out of someones way because he/she need to go somewhere and I'm in his way, I DONT GET IT. I don't GET PEOPLE. As if they DON'T EVEN EXIST. oh yes and the outside world doesn't reaslly exist either.
I believe this IS Autism. to me this IS ASPERGER'S.
Flapping and jumping that I don't do is just salt and peppers. the stuff above, to me,is, asperger's, because I live in my own world, and I don't see other people, or the worls. I live inside myself, and this is the definition of the word: aut-ism.

What do you think? do you agree? or do I absolutely have to exhibit all the symptoms to qualify as autistic?
If you believe this is not autism, are there any mental or whatever problem that can mess THIS MUCH with your empathy and theory of mind other than autism?
Thanks for reading
:-|


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Aspie score: 131 of 200
NT score: 34 of 200
Possibly Aspie (diagnosed by an autism expert, doc moves abroad, forced to change docs and all say it's schizophrenia NOS or schizo-affective disorde or personality disorders. initial doc was a colleague of uncle Simon btw. you do the math.). (edit: by Uncle Simon I mean Simon Baron Cohen. Just to clear things up.)


kraftiekortie
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02 Mar 2016, 10:35 am

Autistic people usually don't LACK Theory of Mind or Empathy.

There might be a DISORDER in how it manifests within autistic people, though.



Uncle
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02 Mar 2016, 12:36 pm

""Theory of Mind""... Hmmm, a very interesting concept! I do believe many of us have theory of mind, as in effect this is a learnt area and not a natural biological evolution that is established at conception/birth... I think where many of the tests go wrong, as many will find with many of the ""Aspie"" questions is that many of the questions can have several connotations thus several outcomes of several different answers... So in effect it is the communication that is some what at fault (some will say that the question is basic and easily has one answer but because those on the spectrum can see several outcomes answers, does this not also mean the aspie actually has an amplified theory of mind!?), as both NT's and those on the spectrum all have to learn this... However if a question is drawn out in a visual representation, those on the spectrum are likely to score higher than those that are not! So in effect it depends on the approach! I had a similar thing with a psychologist of late... Who from my perspective had almost no understanding of theory of mind from my point of view/s... I do understand people most of the time and sometimes i am quicker to point things out before many NT's do.. so again i think it down to how its communicated! and the variety involved, as in this case it is definitely not black and white! As for me where i fail is the ""TOM"" of those i have romantic interests in, and it being reciprocated, i am often told what i want to hear then get annihilated when they decide they have had their fill of the game so to speak.. This i really dont get as i couldn't trust anyone in that manner and bemuses me on how easily some people find it, even funny to hurt people emotionally and manipulate for their own needs... However there are other areas i can intuitively know, so it isnt really that simple, To me theory of mind in itself is its own spectrum, its hugely broad, some people will excel in certain areas and other areas will not and same with NT's or any human being for that matter... It just seems to be more lumped on those on the spectrum, and often the people you are seeking help from are so closed minded and tunnel visioned that they themselves fall foul to lack of theory of mind! but if you try and point it out there is a form of denial.... So in my own mind (lol) Theory of mind is highly subjective to the environment, what one has learnt in life, the situation , the way thoughts are expressed, communicated etc....


As far as empathy goes, here is my 5 cents!... Empathy is somewhat based on past experience ( not unlike theory of mind), So if someone is upset you can only truly empathize if you have had a similar situation in your own past, if not i would call this sympathy and then maybe pity... For many on the spectrum, we can often live our lives with the constant carry burden of emotional pain from endlessly been beaten down, it doesn't come in waves, it is with many of us permanently and we have to deal with it the best we can, outwardly we may look fine/ok but inwardly we are feeling hell is on fire! So when someone else feels a pain they dont feel every day it can be a temporary overwhelm for them, and i think at this point is where so called science has got it wrong for those on the spectrum, as it is at this point the aspie has learnt to deal with this pain on an ongoing basis in the best capable way possible and therefore may be able to hide those emotions alot better and therefore is able to not only empathize but rather than been overtaken by an influx of emotional empathy can maybe look to find an answer to the individuals problem... If anything i think many of us have too much empathy because of the amplified feelings we often have and past negative experiences....

Conclusion: So Theory of mind and empathy are not entirely exclusive of each other and could as mentioned be why we are often vulnerable and too trustworthy in certain situations but more astute in many others!


I have one good example of a story from last year:

I was at our local watering hole ( yup in the dark corner observing! lol) and when i cam out, there was a ruckus on the street, some young lad of about 18 half my size, baby faced and slim, was picking fights with people.. He was literally on the verge of starting a riot, then he just bee lined straight for me ( i think this in hindsight was the most intelligent thing he did that night!) and came up into my face and threatened me, shouting and spitting all over me... I could have quite easily flattened this young lad and everyone was watching to see my reaction, many were wanting to just jump on him and beat him senseless.. But it was at this pint, despite having a few beverages myself, something just didnt seem right and in the moment it took to blink i had worked out what was going on!...In a split second i had determined the size of this chap, the fact he was starting on most people twice his size, bouncers and public ready to jump this fella, him growling, shouting inches from my face... So i just bent down calmly and whispered something in his ear.. At that point he just stopped, froze and burst into tears... everyone was dumbfounded, it suddenly just went silent, or as close to silence as you can get from a mob mentality to literally utter amazement on everyone's faces, Everyone asking how!? what did you say!?... I quickly took him away from the scene and sat him down and talked to him for 2 hours... I could feel his pain and knew what was going on that knowone else had a clue about!

What i whispered in his ear was, "" I know you suffer from major depression and this is not the right way to create a separate pain""!

So from this I had theory of mind that not a single other soul would have known and was able to feel his pain , empathize and understand and sit with him for a few hours to talk/listen and give him some new ways/ideas to cope with things..

So, as mentioned both are in some ways mutually inclusive and are based on past experience and understanding. In this case something that the 30 other people there on the sidewalk had absolutely no clue about, understood or had experienced before..

So any psychologist/psychiatrist reading this, swallow your damn tunnel visioned pride, get your head out the commercially driven DSM V ""bible"", expand your mind, think outside the damn box smoke your pipe and realize people on the spectrum DO have Theory of Mind and Certainly DO have Empathy! Its just you didn't realize you lost both when writing about those on the spectrum as ""factual"" based codswallop! (Smiley face)

Here endeth today's lesson: Genesis 3-6-9



omid
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02 Mar 2016, 5:12 pm

Can someone answer my question please?
I mean OK by "low" i mean "different kind of" TOM or Empathy.
I need some input and help. It's a fact that I have been diagnosed with AS at least by one autism expert and I'm really bad at these stuff (TOM / Empathy) so...?
I'm asking you for your opinion because I need your help. Not to make you angry over my wrong choice of words or start a philosophical/ethical/political discussion or something.
I have serious problem here.


_________________
Male
Aspie score: 131 of 200
NT score: 34 of 200
Possibly Aspie (diagnosed by an autism expert, doc moves abroad, forced to change docs and all say it's schizophrenia NOS or schizo-affective disorde or personality disorders. initial doc was a colleague of uncle Simon btw. you do the math.). (edit: by Uncle Simon I mean Simon Baron Cohen. Just to clear things up.)


Uncle
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03 Mar 2016, 12:47 am

Sorry! Didn't mean to go on a rant! But as mentioned it is a learned thing in many ways, and is different for each individual... Its hard to give any formal advice as many of us have issues in different areas and degrees... Maybe in some ways you may need to learn via a cognitive approach, as a suggestion as i dont know what country you are in, get intouch with your local autism network and speak to them, they maybe able to lead you on to some help in that area for you!... I wish you the best of luck! :)