The Suicide Thread

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http://theinvisiblestrings.com/asperger ... ng-effect/

https://spectrumnews.org/features/suici ... th-autism/

Please read these articles (especially the first one) before commenting here.

This is very strong information, in my opinion - on how suicide is seen by people on the spectrum to be the only solution, how it is thought about and really considered far more than NT people, and why that is true.

Obsessive thinking, looping, black and white, logical thinking (not abstract or creative in order to think of alternatives to whatever situation is the problem), alienation, etc. And our superpower - Hyperfocus. If ending our lives becomes a special interest, that's it. All else goes out the window and we focus only on that.

After you read those articles, I would love to hear from all - AS and NT - about how often you consider suicide as an alternative.

It's weird I had this conversation with my therapist just yesterday. But I think the matter of life and death is up to the individual. Suicide is a symptom of the failures of our system, not a failure of an individual. We continually try to fix the symptom of something, we don't ever try to fix the system that creates this cycle of suicide.

I asked my therapist, that at some point in life, we need to ask the importance of someone's life and the weight of their life.

I have had in the last 3 years, 8 different houses I slept in, and 9 different jobs. I am financially unstable. I do not have stable shelter and I might be becoming homeless soon because of some circumstances with my shitastic family. I am this close. This close into getting SSI, in getting foodstamps and getting in the programs I need. And House number 10 is just a slip under my feet in a week.

I should not be criticized or judged if I do commit suicide. Because, as I said before, you have to ask, what is the importance and weight of an idnividuals life when they live the life that I have lived?

When there is more times of depravity then there were of ever good.

A person life is up to them. And if society wants to stop and change them from killing themselves, then we need to fix the problems with society. Not the problems with the individuals.

I am very, very sorry that you're facing this. I too am very close to losing my home, and no alternative.

This is a huge problem for AS people who do NOT have a 'support system'. The AS children who have strong, supportive homes, parents, schools, services, etc should really stop and think about how fortunate they are because those of us diagnosed later never had such things and we find ourselves alone and without basic support in life (income, home, etc).

To this poster - I have to say to you that you are also VERY very fortunate if you have a therapist of any kind that you can talk to. Many of us can only dream - that would be a luxury that is beyond possibility.

The article that I posted at the top of this thread is very interesting as it points out how AS people tend to be like 'depressed' people all of the time ( outsiders, not fitting in, can't do normal type things, lose track of time, etc) so we are really accustomed to already being like that and depression is harder to identify.

I do agree that if ending your own life is a crime in this society, and if you can be arrested or detained in a psych ward for trying it, then there should be SOME kind of solution or help available that helps people to not be driven to that point. But there isn't. So people get to be outlaws and criminals basically, in addition to being so desperate and miserable that they can't see a way to live.

TheBadguy - I hope you talk to your therapist more and find some solutions.

I am on medical welfare. So the welfare pays for my therapy and things of that nature. I am living the American Dream on welfare.

I don't have any insurance and I'm living the American Dream below welfare. I didn't mean to sound envious but it really is a luxury if you have a therapist. Don't take that lightly. I hope it's a decent human who can actually add value and help out.

There's a much bigger context to this topic. The rates of suicide in the Western world have increased by 60% since the 1960s, according to some research done in 2012 by the World Health Organisation - a huge increase in the NT population (which will have included 'hidden autistics' in the count). While the rate is probably higher on the spectrum, we don't know the percentage increase in the same way, because we have no baseline data for the percentage of suicides by people on the spectrum in the 1960s. We can guess that there is an increased rate too fairly safely.

Neverthless, I think one can speculate that the factors driving the huge NT rate increase, whatever they are, are also impacting severely on marginalised populations, and those factors may significantly overlap between the two populations.

The black and white thinking related to suicide eg the characteristic "everything is hopeless, totally hopeless and I will never be able to change this so I might as well die" is as characteristic of suicidal NTs as any other group - it is characteristic of suicidal ideation per se, whatever their neurological grouping; to link this solely to ASD is to ignore that.

Suicidal feelings are a huge issue in marginalised communities - no doubt about that - and a political issue for the ASD community as a whole (stigma and structural prejudice are no doubt one contributory factor which causes so much despair) though if you ignore the wider context, you can draw questionable conclusions with negative impact on the well-being of marginalised people.

Moderator note: this topic can be discussed as a general issue in this forum. However would any members who are experiencing difficulty with these kinds of feelings at the moment and want support or to give voice to the feelings, please post in The Haven instead of this thread. Thank you.

death and rebirth
a cyclical movement
a growing 'pain' ---- but it's an allegory, a story of self

this world is denying, or at least very well at hiding, the creative powers to anyone or everyone?
which leads, unfortunately when the lack of possibilities is encountered, to destruction of self,
iow when there's nothing left to do, one can only undo

réappropriation (reclamation)

I think about suicide a fair bit. From my perspective, it is the best thing to do. I don't have the guts to do it right now, but living on for another 60-80 years? Eh, no thanks.

I thought this was very interesting:
"For many people with the disorder, the longing for social and romantic relationships, independence and meaningful work is intense, but there are few programs to help them fulfill these basic human desires."

I can identify with this completely as until recently, I did not know why I could not have those things. I have always tried to have those things. I crave those things. Finding out about Asperger's and all have helped.

It is better to know and accept than to beat your head against those things without any clue. That feeling of constant failure and never knowing why. You do the things you see other people do. You do the things you pick up on in movies or TV or books.

It only works to a certain point. And that never getting beyond that point becomes a weight on your psyche.

And, the repetitive thoughts, looping all makes sense too. That locking in that nobody understands unless they deal with it.

Oh yeah....Attempted suicide twice. Suicidal once. So, been there.

I really urge all of you to read the links - at least the first one.

This is the eye opening stuff for me:

"What makes depression so dangerous for someone on the spectrum is that it can actually hide behind autistic traits. My fear is that too few people realize: depression and ASD have several features in common, creating a kind of “masking effect”. A trait commonly associated with ASD can in some cases be depression masquerading as that trait, thus allowing it go undetected.

In my own life, I’ve found 3 features that ASD and depression have in common: absolute, black and white thinking; repetitive/obsessive thoughts; and, finally, intense feelings of alienation. "

Think about that. They tell NT people to look for signs of depression and they usually list those things that we AS people live with every normal day. Alienation, obsessive thoughts, absolute thinking, etc. So AS people are sort of, by NT definition, depressed all of the time. How easy it is to slip off into actual depression then and no one would ever notice.

"If you would just kill me, then we would both not have to suffer anymore."

Quite a striking thing to read, especially knowing a 13 year old girl said it to her mother. But hey, autistic people can be succesful too so we can just ignore all the other people and pretend they don't exist. That surely will make the problem go away

The estimates of percentages vary widely between studies, this one published in the Lancet reports a much lower figure of only 35%, though the underlying issue in most studies is sampling bias and also in this one.

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanps ... 15-0366(14)70248-2/abstract

I am sure the ASD rate is higher, though because of sampling and methodology errors, it's hard to know an accurate estimate. Nevertheless, how the rate (whatever it is) could be lowered is the central issue for our well-being as a community. I think innate factors are only part of the story. Societal oppression is another.

Suicidal thoughts have haunted me for decades. Came close to doing the deed several times.
I totally identify with the depression /alienation part of it. In my school days I simply gave up and stopped even trying to "fit in". Nobody even noticed me, teachers or parents. That's how "invisible" I became.
Kids with mental problems grow up to be adults with mental problems and so it was with me. Add alcohol to the mix. It numbed the pain and gave me a feeling I could socialize at least a little bit. The booze continued for nearly 40 years.
In spite of it all I have managed to keep jobs and get happily married. Things have gotten better. it hasn't been easy, pulling myself up by my boot laces. Now sober 4yr, semi retired at 60, live in a paid-off home in a rural area where I don't have to interact with others when I don't want to. I will always have to take antidepressants to keep the dark thoughts away. AQ 42

Congratulations! You sound like you got quite a lot together and got it figured out, for real.

The invisibility is a real issue. When you are on the outside to begin with, there are no real 'warning signs' like NTs tend to give off.

And the black and white thinking - I believe that can cause AS people to feel that their own situation is this or it's that, no in between, and if there is no solution then ending their life is the only known solution. We tend to not be able to imagine what else possible there could be. And that can be a fatal flaw. In my own life I've been shocked time and time again when I had obsessed over details endlessly, was certain there was no solution, and someone else offered up an actual solution. Really surprising - something I never even considered.

I wish there was a way to convince all AS people of that exact thing - that we can't know what is going to happen, we can't know what is inside other people's heads, and we can't see the whole picture. If there is that little doubt left, suicide is not the right option.

I've made some pretty detailed plans but I'm not actually going to kill myself. Just for the sake of knowing how most effectively.