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Pandora_Box
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09 Mar 2012, 2:50 am

I'm so sick and tired of people thinking that I am arguing, when I am simply discussing something. Every time, people misinterpret me as arguing. I am discussing, discussing. Why don't people get this? And what starts an argument is them and their misunderstanding and miscommunication. It's going to drive me insane. It makes me so frustrated.



Chronos
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09 Mar 2012, 3:47 am

Pandora_Box wrote:
I'm so sick and tired of people thinking that I am arguing, when I am simply discussing something. Every time, people misinterpret me as arguing. I am discussing, discussing. Why don't people get this? And what starts an argument is them and their misunderstanding and miscommunication. It's going to drive me insane. It makes me so frustrated.


I've had this problem. I realized when I came to a point of confusion on a subject, I would "argue" my understanding of it, expecting the other party to address and correct my misconceptions. However they typically perceived this as my asserting my perception. I've since learned to explicitly state that I don't understand something, and why, and ask them to correct any misconceptions.

In situations where the other person is incorrect, I might ask them to walk me through their logic, and then I will attempt to point out where the flaw is. I will also not hesitate to cite my sources if convenient.



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09 Mar 2012, 4:06 am

Things usually go down fast and go down bad when people are wrong and I know they're wrong. Discussions however usually end up similar to good natured arguments for me


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09 Mar 2012, 4:18 am

I'm right there with ya, Pandora Box. For me I some cases, it's due to two major factors:

1. My own inability to modulate vocal tonality/volume(I sound loud and/or angry when I'm not).
2. My willingness to pore over every detail in the conversation and counter anything I know is wrong.


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09 Mar 2012, 9:24 am

People in general seem to have a very weak ability to debate or negotiate. Like I will offer a point or counter-point. They take it as an insult or confrontation. All I did was give them some information backed up with information I have. This annoys me a lot.



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09 Mar 2012, 10:07 am

Sagroth wrote:
I'm right there with ya, Pandora Box. For me I some cases, it's due to two major factors:

1. My own inability to modulate vocal tonality/volume(I sound loud and/or angry when I'm not).
2. My willingness to pore over every detail in the conversation and counter anything I know is wrong.

me too.



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09 Mar 2012, 10:13 am

Discussion is not the same thing as arguing but it often is pretty meaningless, useless and even frustrating.
It would be so nice and peaceful if people would keep their mouths shut for a change.

When I am involved in a discussion I start talking really loud and feverishly to get my point across. I don't find it surprising that people think that I am arguing and angry because it's probably the truth. I am sure that I get annoyed because of the fact that I got myself involved in a discussion in the first place.



Last edited by pokerface on 09 Mar 2012, 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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09 Mar 2012, 10:56 am

Pandora_Box wrote:
I'm so sick and tired of people thinking that I am arguing, when I am simply discussing something. Every time, people misinterpret me as arguing. I am discussing, discussing. Why don't people get this?


Sometimes people can't help themselves if it is a topic they're over-the-top passionate about. Meaning they take any sort of critique of "Belief X" as a personal attack since their identity is wrapped up in [fill in the blank] and almost instinctively respond with ad hominem themselves. Probably the best thing to do at that point is call some sort of an equivalent to a time-out, say something along the lines that this is an area where we're just going to have to agree to disagree, and drop it. Hopefully the other party will go along. Look at it this way: you're not going to change their mind, at least right then given their emotional state, and things can only go one way if you continue that discussion, and that is downhill.

Note that I'm assuming you mean F2F discussion and not the on-line variety of debate. I'm afraid on-line, ad hominem is part and parcel of almost every debate thread I've ever seen. Regrettably it is a trap I've fallen into myself, and on more occasions than I would care to admit, so I can hardly hold myself out as a paragon of virtue. :(

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And what starts an argument is them and their misunderstanding and miscommunication. It's going to drive me insane. It makes me so frustrated.


Is there any possibility you might be coming on a bit too strong in your approach? Put somebody on the defensive, and they'll dig in their heels, even if it is over something they truly either don't have a strong opinion on, or have not yet made up their mind. I mean, if 9 out of 10 discussions you have end up as you're describing...well, maybe the misunderstanding and miscommunication is a two-way street here. I'm not saying for certain it is, but it is a thought that occurred to me.

And one other thing, kind of a general point... I suspect people are influenced more than they would like to think by what they see on the media. And if what we see are personal attacks between politicians, media pundits and so on, I sometimes wonder if that influences someone's behavior in everyday life.

As an example: I remember former Speaker of the House "Tip" O'Neill talking about what Congress was like when he was first elected vs. how it was shortly before his death. When he was first elected, yes, there would be debates, even heated ones. But at the end of the day everybody would go out for drinks together, play golf together on the weekends, that sort of thing. And he also said that that had essentially ceased sometime in the late '70s, as politics became increasingly about personalities and attacks upon them. Could this change in public discourse influence private debates? I go back and forth, but I kind of think it has, at least to an extent.


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League_Girl
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09 Mar 2012, 1:40 pm

Tell me about it, I had that same problem in high school. I was always accused of arguing. Correcting people is arguing, asking questions is arguing, and even my old boss would accuse me of arguing when I lived in Montana and my husband thinks I always argue with him and my mom accused me of it not too long ago when I was trying to ask her something.


I realize aspies may not realize they are arguing so people tend to assume we all like to argue but the truth is we don't do it on purpose and we don't realize we are doing it. Plus it may be seen as arguing when all we are doing is asking a question and trying to understand it better. I even read I was very argumentative as a child and that may have been a misconception too.

I learned as a child that arguing was when you say the same words back and forth. "No you didn't" "Yes I did" "No you didn't" "Yes I did." "No you didn't you idiot" Then a grown up steps in and says "hey enough of the name calling and arguing" and that is how I learned what the word meant. But my shrink told me in high school that was just a little kid definition of the word and the word changes as you get older. Another thing that always frustrated me, people teaching you things and they they change it on you just because you are older. So it took me years to accept the new definition of the word. I had to look the word up when I was an adult and saw it just means disagreement so yes when you correct someone, that is basically arguing because you are disagreeing with them, I can also see how asking a question can be seen as an argument. You are not agreeing so you have to ask about it.

But the word doesn't bother me anymore. It's also a possibility it's the way you are doing it. I have noticed that people react to how you say things because you can say something and you get a negative reaction but another person says the same thing and gets a positive reaction. It all has to do with how it's said. No one ever told me growing up nor as an adult, "it's how you are saying it." Instead it was just a accusation I would get than being told it was how I was saying it. Perhaps if everyone understood better, they would have told me. But this is a knew phrase for me. I also wonder if your tone of voice has to do with it too?



Pandora_Box
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09 Mar 2012, 10:22 pm

League_Girl wrote:
I also wonder if your tone of voice has to do with it too?


I don't talk very loud. I don't have the yelling voice, but I do realize I ask a lot of questions. It's very hard for me to do something without a prompt beforehand. If I'm not prompted beforehand I cannot stand it.

One of the situation was my ex girlfriend. I went grocery shopping and did all the necessary things with my funds. She then suddenly announces we're going to the mall. She didn't tell me this beforehand. I had schedule days in advance about the grocery shopping. Schedule is prompting. I had dreams and planned it in my head over and over again. Groceries, home. I do not like those spontanous impulse prompts.

All I did is ask, "Why are we going to the mall? We didn't plan for the mall,"

I try my hardest to say this is in a very calm manner, very low and non threatening.

She goes, "Why do you always have to argue with me?"

And I'm like O.O [in my head] I was just asking a simple question. When I don't have prompts it gets very frustrating. The reason I made this thread was because a friend was ill. I didn't know the friend was ill. I hadn't been around in a while and hadn't known he hadn't been around either. So, a few days ago we met up when he thought he had recovered from his illness, I guess, He and I talk.

He says, I'll see you tomorrow same time

Tomorrow rolls up and he never shows. Three days pass. And he never shows. Remember I hadn't known he was ill. So when I finally see him, I should mention this is a sort of meetup of irregular people, I tell him he never showed and he goes oh yeah he was ill.

For some reason people feel that I should have automatically shifted gears from my rational logical side to an immediate emotional reaction. For some reason illness is a free pass to chalk up sympathy. But for me, I was still on my point.

I said, "You should have told me beforehand."

He goes, "Yeah sorry,"

Another person butts in and goes, "You shouldn't have to apologize. [insert my real name] just likes to argue anything. You were ill man. *he turns towards me* Why is it always about your problems?"

I said, "It isn't about my problem, I would have just liked to have been informed he was ill. He could have said, "the last few days I haven't been feeling well not sure if I'll see you tomorrow, but maybe we'll see each other later"

The other person, "I don't want to have this discussion,"

My friend goes, "Let's not argue,"

I was just stating my point clearly. I was not arguing, just explaining and discussing.



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09 Mar 2012, 10:27 pm

Pandora_Box wrote:
I'm so sick and tired of people thinking that I am arguing, when I am simply discussing something. Every time, people misinterpret me as arguing. I am discussing, discussing. Why don't people get this? And what starts an argument is them and their misunderstanding and miscommunication. It's going to drive me insane. It makes me so frustrated.


Perhaps you might raise your voice or go on and on and on about a subject in an insistent way which the NT must take your point. There's a difference between, here's my point now lets hear yours(discussion) vs. you need to believe me(closer to argument). I know there had been times were I wanted to drive my point home but that's not always what people want to hear.



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09 Mar 2012, 11:02 pm

I can relate to this if I feel strongly about something I tend to get louder and as I have trouble with what I'm trying to say it sounds like I'm getting hysterical.



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09 Mar 2012, 11:09 pm

Everything I say ends up sounding polemical. I don't know why.

I think part of it is the way I talk. When I was younger, my parents said my "tone" was "rude". They have stopped at some point. I don't know why, because I never tried to "change" anything. Maybe that is still present.

It also seems either I make very long, detailed explanations -- and bore the people with whom I talk -- or short, to-the-point, witty remarks -- which are misinterpreted.

On the other hand, I actually like debates. They are challenging. I find I talk in the presence of others more than to others when I am interested, and start monologuing theatrically. I think it's a contributing factor.



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10 Mar 2012, 12:11 am

Pandora_Box wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
I also wonder if your tone of voice has to do with it too?


I don't talk very loud. I don't have the yelling voice, but I do realize I ask a lot of questions. It's very hard for me to do something without a prompt beforehand. If I'm not prompted beforehand I cannot stand it.

One of the situation was my ex girlfriend. I went grocery shopping and did all the necessary things with my funds. She then suddenly announces we're going to the mall. She didn't tell me this beforehand. I had schedule days in advance about the grocery shopping. Schedule is prompting. I had dreams and planned it in my head over and over again. Groceries, home. I do not like those spontanous impulse prompts.

All I did is ask, "Why are we going to the mall? We didn't plan for the mall,"

I try my hardest to say this is in a very calm manner, very low and non threatening.

She goes, "Why do you always have to argue with me?"

And I'm like O.O [in my head] I was just asking a simple question. When I don't have prompts it gets very frustrating. The reason I made this thread was because a friend was ill. I didn't know the friend was ill. I hadn't been around in a while and hadn't known he hadn't been around either. So, a few days ago we met up when he thought he had recovered from his illness, I guess, He and I talk.

He says, I'll see you tomorrow same time

Tomorrow rolls up and he never shows. Three days pass. And he never shows. Remember I hadn't known he was ill. So when I finally see him, I should mention this is a sort of meetup of irregular people, I tell him he never showed and he goes oh yeah he was ill.

For some reason people feel that I should have automatically shifted gears from my rational logical side to an immediate emotional reaction. For some reason illness is a free pass to chalk up sympathy. But for me, I was still on my point.

I said, "You should have told me beforehand."

He goes, "Yeah sorry,"

Another person butts in and goes, "You shouldn't have to apologize. [insert my real name] just likes to argue anything. You were ill man. *he turns towards me* Why is it always about your problems?"

I said, "It isn't about my problem, I would have just liked to have been informed he was ill. He could have said, "the last few days I haven't been feeling well not sure if I'll see you tomorrow, but maybe we'll see each other later"

The other person, "I don't want to have this discussion,"

My friend goes, "Let's not argue,"

I was just stating my point clearly. I was not arguing, just explaining and discussing.



I guess they don't like to be questioned. :?



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10 Mar 2012, 12:20 am

I am often accused of arguing when I feel calm and am just meaning to talk about something I notice or am interested in. I can't even imagine how it can be interpreted as arguing. I have no idea how to discuss things without sounding intense or argumentative I guess.



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10 Mar 2012, 12:28 am

Pandora_Box wrote:
I'm so sick and tired of people thinking that I am arguing, when I am simply discussing something. Every time, people misinterpret me as arguing. I am discussing, discussing. Why don't people get this? And what starts an argument is them and their misunderstanding and miscommunication. It's going to drive me insane. It makes me so frustrated.


This used to happen to me all the time. People would say I 'liked to argue' when really I was just trying to figure something out, or point something out, and they were the ones who were continuing the argument by repeating their nonsense. I suppose though that from their viewpoint I was being nonsensical.. but some people are best avoided anyway :)

And that's ultimately what I do anymore, I don't bother discussing much of anything.. I don't care if anyone believes me or not, or whatever is going on there anyway, they probably just want my attention and don't care how they get it..