We are normal and NTs are actually abnormal!

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At first glance the thought seems kind of out there, but only be cause we live in an NT dominated society and we are forced to grow up with their paradigms of how the human brain is meant to function. I contemplate this a lot however. Autistics tend to think visually, aren't good with following social conventions, and practice obsessive,/repetitive behaviors. Society thus labels us as abnormal.

But let’s look at the animal kingdom, as life has existed for millions of years. Every other species on the planet does not live life by social ques and such things can only be mimicked, like a dog learning how to sit. They also think visually since they do not have a literary language to think in. Animals must also practice repetitive behaviors over and over again in order to survive.

All these rules NTs have laid out through the years deal with "proper social behaviors" which are irrelevant to the true purpose of life : to survive (and seek happiness, although happiness is a natural system developed through evolution as a means to guide living beings towards behaviors suited to furthering their survival). The things NTs go about are completely trivial when you look at them from an objective standpoint. Take for instance wearing spiffy clothes and trying to pick up a date by talking to someone about the weather. Who cares about that? Humans are meant to seek happiness NTs have added countless meaningless things to complicate life.

What if Autistics are just people whose minds are geared towards the pursuit of happiness and passion, and arent wired to deal with the trivial practices of NTs. True, NTs represent the majority of the population, but do they represent the true apex of the human species? I'm not saying autistics do by any means, but paradigms change with time and we have grown up in the bondage of the paradigms propagated by NTs, and I don't think autistics should feel abnormal. We only feel abnormal by the stark contrast we bear against NTs, but remove that context and no such observation can be made. Genius itself is a trait closely tied to autism, and many great geniuses of the past may have been autistic. Some food for thought.

You bring forward a very good point. I like your philosophy.

I don't think it out there at all. Why do social things have to be as complicated as there are? Even NT can't give you that answer. There is a lot of misery caused by 'social conventions'. Nearly every NT have some kind of insecurity. I would go as far to say AS don’t have these but I recon I'm more rational about them.

The thing is, some animals, like dogs, Chimps, DO have a social framwork, which includes body language. If a beta dog does not show the alpha the respect it should, or behaives strangley, they can be "thrown out of the pack".

I think what you say has "some" validity, but the problem comes in, do you really want to go around and tell the NT world, "we run off of our animal instincts, with no regard to the social rules and higher functioning (they perceive) that has evolved over the last 100,000 years?"

I could see the backlash of being called an "ape".

its true its true!

Ah...but you are saying that illogical behaviour is inherently higher functioning compared to our pure infallible logic! When in "reality" it may be or it may not be; it's just the status quo, which can change at a whim in the collectively illogical world. We don’t work on social “animal instinct”, we don’t have it: we compare, contrast, observe, deduce and/or try to induce answers to readily definable axioms.

We “fail” at collective society because social interaction defies logic when we don’t have said innate social ability.

99% is the majority: it doesn’t mean that they’re always “right” compared to the 1% they don’t understand.

But that is just it, the majority sets the norms, at least for our species. That is why it is called "normal" because it is "common".

I am not saying that the majority are higher evolved, I am just saying, that if you say "the animal kingdom does not do this, they opperate on a more instinctual level with minimum social skills and language, aspies are like them, that is what is normal for the animal kingdom of this planet. You are lumping us in with animals, which are generally (rightly or wrongly) assumed to be inferior to human beings, not as "evolved".

If that floats your boat, go right ahead. But most people feel that the social and communication nature of humanity is what "sets them apart" from the animal kingdom. If you say, "aspies don't have that", then it sets them apart from humans, and down into the realm of animals.

Remember, most of the human race does not even accept the theory of evolution or that we have any connection to the animal world! I bet at least 1/2 the humans on the planet right now, flatly deny evolution even exists! I was shocked once when my Sister In Law came over, very intellegent girl, raised in the same house as my husband, a nurse, saw us watching a movie about evolution, and just flipped out "you don't seriously believe we evolved from Monkeys do you?" She was absolutely agast.

You look at most religions in this world, they don't support the theory. People stick to what they are comfortable with.
I don't feel like arguing that as a sentient being on this planet, I am normal, even if that makes me "abnormal" for the human race. I already know the latter! But why put myself in the same group as the "lowely stinking animals?" I fail to see how that would help my lot in life! Other then pershaps, being some interesting food for thought...

Besides, the Aspies of this world are what in the end drive change. It is the ironic thing, you take away the aspies, and you could probably say good bye to 9 /10ths or the modern world!

That's because every other species does not have a conscious mind, the capacity to judge, reason, think etc.



But again, humans are different from the rest of the animals in that we need to learn to adapt and change according to situations and circumstances, both situational and environmental. Rigidity is limiting and counterproductive in humans.



How is it possible for anyone to have an objective standpoint?



That is a highly subjectively-laced opinion. One could argue that wearing trendy clothes and engaging in small talk increasing social networks, builds relationships and levels of attraction and may well ultimately lead to a greater chance of survival. A person who wears bad clothing and sulks in a corner isn't exactly going to make any friends or find people to breed with (if breeding is what you meant by survival, in terms of species survival). Who cares about that? Society does.



But do these 'trivial practices' not produce happiness if tackled successfully? Socialising can be a wonderful and fulfilling thing. So wouldn't not being wired to deal with NT practices make this pursuit of passion and happiness alot harder?

You say that 'happiness is a natural system developed through evolution as a means to guide living beings towards behaviors suited to furthering their survival', so how do those with AS find it?

Finally, you keep saying that we aren't 'abnormal', but if you look at the definition, then we certainly are, being a 'deviation from a standard'. Dominance is what qualifies for 'normal' these days, so NT's take the prize unfortunately.

Thanks

Maybe not EVERY other species, but plenty have a conscious mind, and the capacity to judge and reason. Maybe not to the extent we do, but it's just a matter of degree.

As EarthCalling mentions, many animals do have social frameworks. It's quite common, particularly in mammals and birds. While a lot of it can be said to be hard wired into the animal, that's also true of humans.

I'd guess there are different animals born with different kinds of conditions that cause them to not fit in, just like with humans. Even though (for example) wolves/dogs and dolphins are extremely social, you still have the occasional one who's off by itself. Probably all the social stuff is hard wired in there because an individual of the species can survive better with others than by itself, whether we're talking about a wolf or a human.

I'm talking in terms of a logic vs. instinct ratio.

I don't know though...the higher animals can all think, and humans seem to run on a LOT more instinct than we like to pretend, IMO
I'm not sure there's any gigantic difference, aside from just that our brains are more complex than most animals. I've seen it suggested that people on the spectrum are the only reason we've invented all the crazy stuff we have...otherwise maybe we'd just be sitting around in caves gossiping as we ate our latest kill

Socializing is the complete and utter suck (to me); I've never and I'm never going to enjoy it, I'd rather tear my finger nails off.... But I do that anyway...so I guess that's a bad example. There is not a single facet to socializing that I can see that I'd label enjoyable, i.e., you get to ultimately practice human reproduction practices with people at the expense of everything that you are; I'd rather swing swords.... I can still produce humans if it was ever required from me, the same as “everyone” else can; but I’ve got more “important” things to think about at the moment, i.e., my interests and obsessions. So who's the "normal" one, me or them? "Normal" ain't the majority, it's the minority’s mind projected onto the group.

RE: the outlier, sure...you learnt to ignore it in practical math, but it's still there! So you better get used to it....

You and I must live on different planets

If you move your views outside of the US, would you reconsider your statement?

I've traveled extensively in four continents (North America, Europe, Asia and Africa). The denial of evolution in the US is very much a curiosity amongst people in other parts of the world.

Steve

Back to the subject on what is a "normal" human being, I don't think it matters. We should instead celebrate our diversity.

Remember, even among the NTs, the racial and cultural diversities easily render any kind of generalization of human behaviors useless.

I might be wrong, but I don't think that's true for ALL behaviors. I mean a lot is cultural and learned, but a lot is just hard wired too. There's some constants across any (or most) human cultures, I think.

By certain definitions aspies are normal, and by others they are not. The word normal is frequently associated with both the average and things that natural. As a general, one could say that aspies are in the former not normal, and in the latter normal. Frequently, specific aspie activites will be, accurately, in my opinion as abnormal. The same could be said of some NT activities, of course.