Interesting thing I found possibly related to Spectrumites

Post Reply New Topic

At the moment I'm (forced to be) reading a book called Tasman's Legacy, which is a book covering Dutch immigration and settlement in NZ (Tasman, the guy who discovered NZ, was Dutch). It says that when the Dutch, back in the 1950's, were heading on the boat and were told to 'forget that they were Dutch", and 'some took it awfully literally, often only speaking English as soon as they got on the boat".

It also says that 'While other immigrant groups, such as Polish and Chinese, run their own language schools, the Dutch had nothing like that... . This could be attributed to the Dutch tendency to see things in black and white.', and also 'While many Dutch were quick to pick up enough basic English to get by on a daily basis, the subtleties of the language, the use of understatement, and the need for tact were obstacles on which they all stumbled. "We walked through the English language with our clogs on" is how... ...Luke van der Pal describes the period when cultural and language clashes often caused misunderstandings and pain.'

Also said are that 'The Dutch compulsion to be brutally frank in all situations has no doubt shaped New Zealand attitudes to the Dutch. It took a while for some immigrants to realize the question "What do you think of New Zealand?" or "What do you think of my new dress?" were pleas for reassurance rather than invitation to pick fault. A woman clearly does not want to be told that her dress is a poor fit and the wrong colour. The New Zealander who says "What do you think of New Zealand?" is equally mortified to hear immigrants list the numerous ways in which things were better where they came from. So immigrants attracted their labels - the "arrogant Dutchies"'

Some more... 'Fr van der Pal, remembers one occasion... ...the school was under construction and... ...he passes the comment that he hoped everything would work and that there were no accidents. The contractor was deeply offended by the lack of faith in his work and complained to his superior... ...with his limited vocabulary he had expressed himself the only way he could.'

And more... 'The Dutch tended to say what they thought, dismissing the English trait of diplomacy and tact as a cover for liars and hypocrites - people who say one thing to your face and another behind your back. ...Some of the men quickly picked up swear words from their New Zealand workmates, but did not appreciate taboos on bad language in other settings: "bloody this and bloody that" was accepted on a building site but not outside church on a Sunday morning. ...Depending on who said it and how it was delivered, a phrase such as "Hey you Dutch bastard" could merely be a good-natured bit of ribbing and not necessarily a serious slur on parentage. Godfrey Jansen... ...was worried when he first heard the phrase... until Jansen came up with a good reply. "I told him that where I came from my birth certificate was in 10 languages."'

'New immigrants also had trouble with the ambiguities of English. Tara Kolff... ...recalls being tripped up by the ambiguities of "tea", which can mean anything from a cup of tea to dinner. She was also confused by the phrase "see you later" meaning good-bye rather than an intention to return in half an hour.'


Ironic or what?

O, i dunno, i thought this thread was gonna be about zx-spectrums

Because I'm part Dutch (not Pennsylvania Dutch, as my grandmother was always quick to admonish) I felt an attraction to this thread. Also, I have a picture of my Dutch great-great grandmother, professionally done, in which she has the most awful, ssour, miserable looking expression I've ever seen. Somewhat like me at times, or so I've been told. The only thing I know about this woman is that the town's-folk or people in the nearby village (upstate PA) looked down on her and made fun of her because she used to walk into town with a bucket, have it filled up with beer, and then walk back to the farm with it. This apparantly was very un-lady-like. She was a Deeter before she married and became a Dotter.

Some interesting slang:

Dander, denoting temper or anger - "Her dutch is up" "Don't get my dutch up."

Disfavor or trouble - "He was in dutch with his boss."

Courage due to intoxication - "Dutch Courage"

One who admonishes sternly and bluntly - "Dutch Uncle"

A device for hiding or counteracting structural defects - "dutchman"

Each person pays his own way - "Dutch treat" "going Dutch"

A seemingly foolish or stupid person - "dumb Dutchman"

Hmm, very interesting stuff. Maybe you're onto something. The Dutch are Germanic people and many people with Asperger's are northern European.

Last edited by cosmiccat on 15 May 2007, 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

Pennsylvania Dutch is actually German. It is a mistranslation of Deitsch. Often people in the states referred to as Dutch are German or Austrian origin.

That's why my Granny would get her "Dutch" up whenever anyone confused her with the Pennsylvania Dutch. "I'm a Hollander!" is what she would say. She herself didn't speak Dutch.
But when her mother, my great-grandmother, got mad, she would start speaking Dutch. Everyone would stay away from her when that happened. So, literally, getting her "Dutch up", meant getting mad enough to speak in her mother tongue.

I get along awesomely with Netherlanders, but also other northerns. The Danes are like that. They speak their minds. Same with the Swedes and Norwegians.

On the other hand, I have a heck of a time with italians and friench. They like to talk in circles... dance around a subject. And so much body language! On the other hand, they can be fun. But not when you want to get something done!

Very interesting perspective. Sorry to say, I haven't read much on the Dutch outside The Diary of Anne Frank and the colonization of South Africa. I do have an acquaintence on another forum who is Dutch and we think alike. She's really straightforward and lives a similar lifestyle as me.
I was raised by a family that descended from Southern Europeans (Italy, Spain, Portugal) and I get the speaking styles but not the emotional volatility. It's nuts. They're hyper-NT.

Aha. This is why I feel so at home in IKEA. The home furnishings are so "to the point". No fooling around. So practical and utilitarian. I love to spend the day there. Lots of Aspies there, too. I'm getting good at recognizing them, and they me. Very kind and helpful.

I can't read Anne Frank. It's too disturbing. I did read it a long time ago, and I saw the film. It still haunts me and I do have horrible recurring dreams about hiding my children in the attic to protect them from the Nazis.

My father's family is Abruzzi. Wonderful people, very affectionate, but they do like to pinch more than I can bear. My dutch mother and her family were not affectionate. Any love or affection I felt as a child I got from my father and his family. Oddly enough, I also have recurring nightmares of hiding from the mafioso. Go figure.

Perhaps Nazis and Mafioso (in my mind at least) are the ultimate evil or (and I don't wish to generalize or besmirch NT's or "typical neuro typicals" in general) NT's at their extreme worst, or what NT thinking escalated to the highest degree can lead to or produce in the human psyche.

KBABZ,that's an interesting story about the Dutch and the direct way they use English.
I believe the Frisian dialect of Dutch is almost like how English might have developed in a parallel universe,some words are so similar.
I feel that having AS is a bit like speaking a different language from 'NT'.We can learn 'NT' and even become fluent but as we will never be native speakers there are always subtle meanings that we could be liable to misinterpret if we lose track.
It's ironic that the very name Dutch was originally misinterpreted from Deutsche.

I've always like the Dutch.

I'm Dutch!!

All of em? That explains why you are the coolest young aspie.

Come to think of it, you do look very Dutch!

I don't look like Dutch... I look like ME!!



Note that my sister (aka PhoenixTears) lost my cap.

Now that I look at it, I love how I look! I think it's quite nice.

You do look quite nice. Enjoy it!