Apies percieved as deceitful (more to the point this time)

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I know it's BS that aspies are the pathological liars that some material online paints us as, but I do wonder how common it is to be an aspie and being accused of having ulterior motives because one's social skills or different way of doing things gets grossly misinterpreted by someone as lying?

While fortunately most of the time it doesn't happen, there have been too many times over the years where I've suddenly been accused of deception and manipulating people, and the bizarre part of it is learning that the accusers have decided that it's *because* I've been accepted and have made friends in a particular group that I must have joined the group with nefarious intentions. When it's happened with a group of friends, it's simply a matter of having been *too* social without pretense or acting, almost like the accuser can't trust me because I actually was being myself and the new friends I've made see I'm weird or geeky and are cool with it, if that makes sense.

When it's something more "formal" such as a club, class, or perhaps a job situation, the accusations of deceit and ulterior motives or "disloyalty" seem to come from an accuser seeing me being too enthusiastic about the main "mission" of the group, class, or job, and deciding that my lack of interest in the behind the scenes gossip, politics, or "intrigue" is a sure sign that I've lied about my real intentions and interests. Being accused of misrepresentation because I might appear too knowledgeable for a newcomer to the group, for example. All I might have done was read a lot about it prior to deciding to pursue it further and join, but someone gets the wrong idea and assumes I've conned my way in or have lied about my expertise. A lot of it seems to be part of the broader problem some aspies run afoul of when not being acting in line with someone's narrowly defined notions of "correct" behavior- being real and either not understanding or avoiding drama.

How common is that for aspies to find themselves in situations like that? And how to deal with false accusations? I know I get obsessed with being cleared of the charges and the accuser facing consequences. Not from a need to get revenge, but simple having a thought process that just doesn't accept that it's acceptable to lie and slander someone if the accuser feels strongly enough about it.

The most common reason is that our body language doesn't match what we are saying.
The most obvious conclusion to this is that we must be lying.

Another issue, though not as common, as that we say things that don't agree with what everyone else is saying.
It is hard for NTs to accept that you might be right.

Mmm I have never seen any information saying aspies are deceitful and pathological liars. If those are being said by people than by trained professionals, I would ignore it because it's just their perspective. I am not saying there aren't any aspies out there who do lie and manipulate because I have known one myself but that isn't autism if that is what they experienced. Those comments could be written by people who know nothing about it and they are just assuming their behavior is part of AS.

I have seen in my records about me from when I was five that I manipulate adults and children. I have no idea where that came from and I have no recall of doing that. I only remember wanting this toy car from another boy on the bus so I asked to loo at it and he gives it to me. I look at it and then toss it under the seat so it's "lost" but that didn't go as I planned because everyone could see it under the seat and I was ordered by the bus driver to give it back to the boy so I did. That was my attempt at manipulation to get what I want. But that could just be the teachers perspective on me. It doesn't mean I always did that but that is how they saw my behavior. But I doubt that is what that comment was based on, that one scenario so it had to be often or else they wouldn't have written that comment. Maybe it had to do with me being in the moment so they thought I was playing dumb and being innocent or it could be because I did different behaviors based on what situation I was in so they saw that as manipulative or maybe I would find short cuts and do them and they saw it as manipulative because I copied others. I remember my mother telling me lot of people didn't understand me.




Since you say this doesn't happen often, I wouldn't worry about it. It could just be those people that have a problem and every person is different so they perceive each person differently. Someone might see you as being a liar and manipulative and you can act the same to another person and they won't see you that way. And some people are just paranoid lol because you are not following their standards.

That actually makes sense about body language not matching what we're saying. What I've found confusing though is that not everyone does that- in my experience it seems like there are a lot of people who listen to what you're saying and not fixating on body language, and thus accepting that you're telling the truth. I've seen people so obsessed with "appropriate reactions" that they'll ignore the truth being said and based their decision that someone is lying seemingly totally on one's body language.

Not agreeing with someone is indeed another thing that causes trouble. There's the saying "don't bother me with the facts" that's applicable in situations like that.

Another factor is that NTs accept the fact that true experts are "different."

If someone knows you are an expert, they may be quite willing to overlook the dissonance between what you say and your body language.

When I first started researching Asperger's to see if I had it, I kept finding a lot of material that I figured out later was written by NTs who didn't know what they were talking about, and really emphasizing the supposedly antisocial things aspies are notorious for. Of course, what's written by aspies or NT people who know aspies is a lot more credible and honest.

The experience you describe as a kid I can relate to a little. I'd get into into minor trouble for hiding something because I thought I really was just playing a prank or joking around, but missed cues that the joke had gone too far and having to get an adult to realize that it wasn't an attempt to fool someone and that I really was just joking and that I didn't realize I missed the point where it was time to stop. I'd sometimes get accused of not really doing classwork or cheating merely because I got something done ahead of schedule or managed to finish homework and still have time afterwards for something I was interested in doing. And using "big words" was seen as trying to manipulate people. As a teen and as an adult, being too enthusiastic about an idea has been seen as manipulating people, even when everyone in a group actually likes what I have to say- someone disagrees and assumes everyone else was duped. Enthusiasm getting misinterpreted as trying to impose my will on other people.

One of the more frustrating things for me has been from time to time having to prove that I wasn't malingering in regards to my health problems when I was younger or my disability when I was older. Basically conflict with people who assume that I'm using my conditions as a pretext to con my way out of work or to avoid responsibilities, because I've been too quick to accept assistance or requesting accommodations or exemptions- literal mindedness in assuming that things stated as being for people with disabilities are for people like me, and not understanding unwritten rules and how things are actually perceived. Some people really are suspicious of someone with real health issues needing help with or exemptions involving certain kinds or work but whose personal life and leisure activities aren't affected.

I think you're onto something about it being some people being paranoid about someone not following along with what's "expected". For me much of the anxiety comes from wondering when the next time someone will make a false accusation, and finding it really interesting how I can be in good standing and trusted by a lot of people but me being the exact same way around some people gets seen as deception. I've had to deal with people who create pure fiction about how dishonest someone is based on honest mistakes, misunderstandings, or a minor faux pax when everyone else simply calls out the offending behavior, allows the appropriate apologies to be made, and moves on.

Basically this.

My AS friend used to get pulled up all the time in stores because she looked too "shifty" so they thought she was always stealing when she wasn't, they used to even call the police cause they thought she was lying - she was just super anxious looking and panicky. Same sorta thing, I figure charisma and body language is skills that are learned because I have AS friends now who blend perfectly as extrovert NTs and about 10 years ago they seemed hopeless.

That makes sense. I'm thinking that what's gotten me into trouble has that I've expressed real knowledge or interest but expressing enthusiasm, both by talking fast and gesturing in the "wrong" way ends up looking like I was trying to convince people my interest was real. A real expert with either credentials or simply having spent more time in that area of interest might come across more low key and be accepted as being honest about their expertise.

The thing is, there are a lot of people who will see the difference, but also accept the non-expert at face value, just someone passionate about their interest and excited to be sharing it.

One strategy I've adopted is simply being harsh when someone thinks I've misrepresented myself. Many times it's a matter of someone grossly misinterpreting things they see me doing or tertiary things surrounding how I express my interests. I like to joke about how I've never stated that I'm a pilot or work for NASA, so it's not my fault if someone sees the space and aviation books I have and decides I've lied about being an astronaut

Precisely what I'm talking about- I've never been accused of stealing, but reacting the wrong way to a false accusation- trying to process the how and why of it rather than simply insisting up front that the accuser explain themselves and present evidence, or else drop the accusation. What happens to me is the shock of an out of nowhere accusation is intimidating enough to initially not be able to come up with a good defense, because of how aggressive the accuser might be about it, or else there's a little truth in the accusation, perhaps a minor but legitimate issue about something I said or did gets distorted into something far worse. "Well, I *did* talk to that girl once, so I guess I really did harass her", for example, rather than asserting myself and demanding that the girl in question tell her side of it. Usually it's a third party assuming wrongdoing rather than asking the supposed "victim". Someone else got weirded out by the sight of a nerdy guy chatting with a female friend.

What I've had to do to be prepared in the future is to just go about my business and not to panic when someone does make an accusation. Fortunately I've never been in any real legal trouble- usually situations like that are an extension of a conflict I've had with someone in a group situation. More recently I've learned to just be confident that I'm in good standing with the rest of the group and that real friends will back me up. It seems that accusations of deceit and manipulation are more about the accuser being envious of the person who is different being accepted by the group, if that makes sense.

I was once arrested because someone thought I took a video tape. It was so humiliating and I was afraid to go to school on Monday because some kids saw me at the back of the police car and I knew they were going to tell others and word spreads easily because it's a small town and people just love to talk about others. To this day I am not sure what I did wrong to make the store owner think I took something but I didn't go in that store for months. But that only happened once so maybe he was just an idiot because no one else has ever thought I was shop lifting or taking something. I have had cashiers look at me while I looked but I figure they do that to everyone and that was only in small stores.

Lack of eye contact is seen by most people as trying to hide something.

I find that some people do not trust me while others who know me better trust me 200%. The medical profession tends to not believe me. During my pregnancy I had a lot of problems with this. They thought I was a drug addict or something and treated me terribly, even though they did blood work and I was clean. I was depressed and withdrawn at the time. You'd think someone like this could tell the difference. I still hate them for this.

I have experienced funny looks in stores or at the self check out. No, I don't want to chit chat with you. If I wanted to talk to someone I would have went through the regular register.

I'm always looked at kind of funny. I must project weirdness. I generally think it's their problem but sometimes get angry because I am innocent.

I feel that this is a kind of discrimination.

One of my friends said this to me when I was about 12-13.
You're always lying, your such a liar
I wasn't saying anything outlandish, or anything I would lie about. It seemed such a strange thing to say.

Maybe eye contact/body language being "off" is why she said it?

I am sure every person in the world has at least been accused of something one time they didn't even do but for me it has been more often I can remember and some of it was just being in the wrong place at the wrong time and couple of them was because this boy in my self contained class was a chronic liar so he got me into trouble several times with his lies but he did it to other kids too so I doubt I was his target. He was jut a chronic liar and have behavior which was probably why he was in that class because he had problems with behavior.


I remember being in 3rd grade, we would earn stickers in special ed. After class would end, we got to pick out a tiny sticker to put on our dinosaur. We sometimes earned three stickers or four or five or two. I always counted mine carefully so I know how many I was putting on but the teacher for some reason kept thinking I was putting more on than she realized and I would always correct her. Then she would let me finish putting on my stickers. After I earned enough stickers (20), my teacher kept me after class telling me she knows I didn't earn all those stickers so she was going to keep the card and I get a new one and I earn them the right way. Then the next time I earned enough stickers on that card, she didn't accuse me of not earning all of them and she didn't lose track of how many stickers I was putting on the card. I am not sure what happened or why she thought that of me. Maybe it was my body language and maybe she watched me the second time carefully when I was putting them on and she never apologized for her mistake. Maybe she realized her mistake and never admitted it or maybe she never figured it out. I don't know.

I always thought Aspies were more often perceived as overly blunt and honest to the point of being unable to lie.

Looks like we get shot from both sides.

Let's look at some educational materials online:
http://www.corrections.com/articles/219 ... r-analysis
http://www.webmd.com/balance/features/1 ... tch-liar#1

1. We don't respond in a NT way. We may very well run away from the sound of a gunshot without looking back.
2. Stimming could easily be mistaken as grooming.
3. Our eye contact is bad. Too much or too little sets of alarm bells for a lot of people.
4. Voice modulation- tone, speed, and volume can fluctuate (a lot with some of us) during the course of a conversation.
5. We may give too much detail or too little. Both are indicators.
6. Those of us who have been trying with varying levels of success to pass for "normal" our entire lives may come across as fake or evasive to those first meeting us. We also tend to come across as nervous.
7. Our body language sometimes flat out doesn't match what we say.

Add to that our tendency to wear sunglasses in what others don't perceive as bright light, headphones which we don't like to take off, unusual clothing (especially baggy which may be used to hide things), and so forth, and it's really not surprising we get questioned more than others.