The Autism Separatism Discussion Thread

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neuroadvanced
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13 Mar 2017, 11:00 pm

I would like to get a discussion going about the concept of the autism spectrum representing the beginning of a distinct new species of human that is more advanced - cognitively superior than the current one - however controversial that might be. I would like for those on the spectrum to share their thoughts on why they agree or do not agree.

I am a high functioning autistic person who considers himself to have above average intelligence and in my view people on the autism spectrum constitute a separate, distinct, and superior subspecies of human. I have periodically read these forums for over 10 years without posting and find it distressing that a vast majority of the discussions center around autism being something bad and people pitying themselves for our differences. We will never realize our potential if this does not change. Over time with more and more knowledge and experience I would have thought that by now there would be a concrete realization that autism is representative of the natural evolutionary process that takes place in a species. There is nothing to feel bad about. We are not defective in any way. Quite the opposite, actually. We are evolving. Autism is the beginning stage of evolving into a new, advanced form of human. Distinct from the current human race. And it is time to separate. It all makes perfect sense.

Bacteria to fish. Fish to reptiles. Reptiles to warm blooded mammals. Warm blooded mammals to Neurotypical humans. And now, Neurotypical humans to us, which are currently called people with "autism" (we need a name for our new species). As I'm sure you are well aware, the neurotypical mind has many severe flaws and our cognitive differences are intended to be an update to what is at this point an ancient, archaic design. The neurotypical mind was an amazing development for it's time 200,000 years ago. Just like the Ford Model T was an amazing car for 1908, but you wouldn't want to keep using it well into the future. Likewise, We shouldn't want to continue to be neurotypicals in the future. It's time to adapt and advance. We've reached the natural end of neurostandard cognition. As it stands now, neurostandard humans won't make it any further then where they are at. They won't colonize space. They won't even make it to mars. Too distracted by social media, too busy fighting, thinking up new ways to oppress each other with self destructive behavior. Always thinking short term and not seeing the bigger picture. They went to the moon 48 years ago but don't even currently have a spaceship that can take them into space. I say them because I do not consider myself to be one of them. The differences that people on here constantly talk about needing to overcome, make us not them. I just feel hindered by neurotypicals, held back. Our cognition and their cognition are different to the point of incompatibility. Our daily interactions with them prove that. The solution is not to become depressed that we are not neurotypcials and don't understand their socialization rules of conduct, we must separate ourselves from them and move forward. The extinction of neurostandard humans is assured and we must ensure our own survival. That starts with us waking up and stop feeling pity for ourselves.

We're just different then neurostandard humans. Why anyone would think that is a bad thing is beyond me. Our brains are running beta software. So there will be bugs, it's not fully developed yet. Apes just didn't wake up one day as Neanderthals, it's a process that takes time. That's what we are going through. Embrace it, be proud of what we are. The sensory issues some experience that inhibit our lives would not be an issue if neurotypicals were extinct and our entire environment, culture and technology were built from the ground up for the autistic mind. In a purely autistic society we would create technology suited for us which would eliminate any of the "problems" associated with being autistic. Being 27 feet tall would be an issue simply because the doorways are built for people who are Ft and under. If you built an environment where all the doors are high enough, this "problem" is no longer a problem.
What makes things worse is how misinformed the general public is about autism and the negative depictions displayed in mass media. I tell some people I'm autistic and they start acting as if I don't know up from down. If you search for autism on the internet you mostly see information about autism being a horrible disorder that needs to be cured, and that autistic people need help to live their lives. The superiority of being on the spectrum needs to be espoused. We're significantly more intelligent. The general public needs to be made aware of the real truth behind autism and where we stand, not the info that is currently being put out in mass. We should be revered not sent to a doctor for treatment. From what I've read on here I see that some autistic people themselves do not agree that autism is superior. I would like to ask why you feel that way. Neurotypical society is on the verge of complete collapse. Do you think a nation of autistic people would have the same problems that neurotypical society has? The answer is clearly no. Share your thoughts on this.



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13 Mar 2017, 11:09 pm

I originally thought that this would be about the autism movement separating from modern day progressivism. If it was, I would've completely supported it. Autistic people are not superior nor are they inferior. What about all of the low functioning people? Will they be blocked out? They probably have below average IQ's. It's true that quite a few autistic people have above average IQ's, but does that mean anything? Aren't IQ tests outdated? The only one who can determine intelligence is yourself. If you consider yourself smart, go for it and do anything you can.

Edit: If you really want to progress, advocate for the demolishing of Autism Speaks. Either that or completely reform it. They certainly don't paint a positive image.


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14 Mar 2017, 12:42 am

OP, you can exclude me from your use of the pronoun "we."



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14 Mar 2017, 1:29 am

-and somewhere out there Ernst Mayr is rolling in his grave.


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14 Mar 2017, 1:39 am

I've never got people like OP. Are they so full of themselves they appear completely insane? Or is it that they're genuinely insane but come off incredibly full of themselves? Some combination of both?



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14 Mar 2017, 2:03 am

Autism makes me extremely withdrawn and nonverbal.

Autism keeps me from being able to outside by myself without getting lost.

Autism causes me to stim excessively.

Autism causes me to have frequent sensory overload meltdowns or shutdowns sometimes to the point of autistic catatonia.

Autism keeps me in special edition because I can not handle a mainstream curriculum.

I have to be looked after like a small child due to my autism.

That's what autism is. Not everyone who is autistic has to be as impired as I am. But autism is a neurological and cognitive disorder. Not the next step in human evolution.

iliketrees wrote:
I've never got people like OP. Are they so full of themselves they appear completely insane? Or is it that they're genuinely insane but come off incredibly full of themselves? Some combination of both?


I think it's a coping mechanism or denial or whatever. A fantasy of being superior rather than disabled. I usually only see stuff like this posted by the extremely high functioning.



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14 Mar 2017, 2:57 am

"Autism = more intelligent" is such a meme, one that I'm personally tired of reading. Autistic people are spread on the IQ spectrum, same as neurotypicals. And "revering" us? What for? Has any of us turned water into wine lately?

This post is akin to the Jews declaring themselves chosen, the Roma's disdain for gadje or certain black groups affirming that white people are degenerated genetic defects and that they are the first, most pure humans. Persecuted minorities will try and explain away their social inferiority by proclaiming their moral, spiritual or genetic superiority over their oppressors. It's easier to be oppressed when you believe they're doing it to keep you down because you're fundamentally better than them. You're not the first one to have thought of that coping mechanism. Yes, it is a coping mechanism.

That being said, I actually agree somewhat, in principle. I'd like to see some kind of commune founded for people on the spectrum where they could live their lives as free from NT society as they can be, a kind of micro-society. It'd be quite interesting to see what kind of society would emerge from that, especially after multiple generations, assuming offspring is reliably autistic.

But, that's not because we're superior. That's because we're different, with different strengths and weaknesses and needs. We are also all individuals. My personal dream is to escape to the country and live in autarky (well, as much as is possible) and solitude. I'd be a misfit in either NTland or autismland, so where I choose to make my hermitage doesn't really matter. Others are quite impaired and wouldn't be able to contribute in autismland, just as they don't contribute in NTland, so that makes no difference for them either. Others, on the contrary, are functional in NTland and may wish to stay there.

But for those who feel like they'd do better with their peers, they should be totally free to give it a try, just like hippies did. But leave the autistic supremacy talk at the door. This shouldn't be what this is about. I can see a 100% autistic society being quite different, but just as flawed as NT-dominated society, simply in different ways.

With deficits in interpersonal communication and impairment of ToM, for instance. perhaps conflict resolution would be harder. Autistic society would probably be more regimented and stricter at some level, and thus less flexible and less able to adapt to unforeseen or unplanned disturbances. Obsessive interests would probably dictate, at least partly, the role of a person in society. It's an interesting thought experiment and it'd be interesting to see it unfold in real life, but I don't think the result would be superior. Just different.


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14 Mar 2017, 3:30 am

Nope. My belief comes from 60 years of dealing with people the vast majority of whom are NT and three plus years on bieng on this site and reading blogs by autistic people etc. I have met some extreamly bright people who were NT, I have met NT people who are fantastic in most ways. I have seen some real autistic assholes here and elsewhere. Each neurology has its different strengths and weaknesses. I also think autistic people have always been around something people are just starting to realize although there is well organized resistence to the idea

I agree that we should stop the pity party and that a lot of our problems are the result of misinformation and hate towereds us. That said to say those autistics who say it is thier autism is causing thier problems only say that because they have been brainwashed is just as patronising as those NT scientists who say we are just a pile of deficits.

As for that autistic nation either we have to take it or we have to persuade them to give it to us, highly unlikely. The way to assure they will not give us anything never mind a nation is to run around saying how superior we are. Why would anybody want to give anything to people who say they are superior. They will rightly say if you are better then us why can't you figure it out?

What about intellectually disabled autistics, you do not believe they exist?

Revered. That should be reserved for deserving individuals. Neurology, sex, race etc should not enter into it.


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14 Mar 2017, 5:48 am

A nation of autistics will not work. In my opinion, there would be too many with executive dysfunction to trully run a government.

Also, many autistics don't get married and have children. Sure, there are some who do have children, but still, wouldn't that be counterproductive to producing a new species.


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14 Mar 2017, 6:23 am

You should maybe start a cult, see how far you get.

I think the OP has some truth to what they say, pretty much only the part about autistic folk getting on pretty well together, my autistic friendships have always been great but I can get on fine with NTs just as well so I dunno.

I disagree with most of the statements made though.. way too batty and way too much overthinking.


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Last edited by Lunella on 14 Mar 2017, 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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14 Mar 2017, 6:37 am

Wow. It's almost pointless to argue with this post because it's so glaringly wrong (misinformed, crazy, etc).

Quote:
It's true that quite a few autistic people have above average IQ's, but does that mean anything? Aren't IQ tests outdated?

Absolutely, as well as being heavily culturally biased. They are to a real reflection of capability like BMI is to a true reflection of a healthy weight range. They were never designed to rank people in some kind of hierarchy of "superior" intelligence. Plus, I never understand why some autistic people believe IQ is everything - or that it matters at all in regard to living a fulfilling life. Autism is notoriously inconsistent in capabilities and disabilities - I am told I have an above average IQ, but also a severely limited emotional intelligence/cognition, and negligible functional abilities. What good does a high IQ do me? Absolutely none, except to be fully aware of how limited I am.
Quote:
The solution is not to become depressed that we are not neurotypcials and don't understand their socialization rules of conduct, we must separate ourselves from them and move forward. The extinction of neurostandard humans is assured and we must ensure our own survival. That starts with us waking up and stop feeling pity for ourselves.

Another aspect I never understand the assumption behind - why do some autistics believe a group of autistics would not have all the same social issues (or more) that autistics and neurotypicals do? I have found communicating with autistic people in the real world just as difficult as with neurotypical peoples. Plus, two people with communication difficulties Vs one person with and one without seems to suggest autism-on-autism social interactions are even more fraught with confusion and difficulty than otherwise. Pitying yourself is rarely helpful, but recognizing your limitations and understanding the threshold between what is good for you and what is not is vital, in my opinion, especially for autistic people prone to regression. "Stop pitying yourself" and push too hard, and you might end up in a breakdown.
Quote:
I originally thought that this would be about the autism movement separating from modern day progressivism. If it was, I would've completely supported it. Autistic people are not superior nor are they inferior. What about all of the low functioning people? Will they be blocked out? They probably have below average IQ's.

Indeed. For someone whose whole philosophy seems dependent on pointing out that autistics are different, the OP seems to ignore the fact that autistics are wildly different from each other. They are assuming everyone is above average intelligence, high functioning and (from this post) with an arrogant view of autism, just because they are. It's inconsistent reasoning. When I read the title I thought this topic would be about the need for autistics to let go of the "us and them" mentality that's so prevalent and work out a way for us to be integrated as part of a neurotypically-dominant world, as opposed to being separated from it. That I would have agreed with. Seems the direct opposite. :(
Quote:
Persecuted minorities will try and explain away their social inferiority by proclaiming their moral, spiritual or genetic superiority over their oppressors. It's easier to be oppressed when you believe they're doing it to keep you down because you're fundamentally better than them. You're not the first one to have thought of that coping mechanism. Yes, it is a coping mechanism.

Interesting. And entirely feasible. Reminds me of parents telling their bullied children that their peers only do so "because they're jealous." I think everyone on this board (and I'm including the teenage folk in that) is a bit old for this explanation to fly.
I don't believe autistics are "superior" or "inferior" probably because hierarchy makes no sense to me. Just different.
Edit - Grr autocorrect.


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14 Mar 2017, 7:31 am

I haven't been Dx but if I do have ASD it would be at the high functioning end. If I am the product of evolution then quite frankly the human race is doomed if they all turn out lke me.


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AlanMooresBeard
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14 Mar 2017, 7:36 am

Sorry but I don't see people on the autistic spectrum as being some kind of natural evolution of humanity that makes us superior to everyone else. As far as I'm concerned, we're all just radios that are a bit out of tune!



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14 Mar 2017, 12:31 pm

@ neuroadvanced:
A separate species can't interbreed, so we are not that. I have never seen a group with a majority on the AS, and while I'm sure it would not have the same range of problems the NT world has produced, I expect it would still struggle with others even after evolving new social norms. Don't you see all the troubles your cousins here are dealing with? My own Aspie family was not good at parenting - I'm ending our line.
The world really does not need a majority of inventors; it needs people who are content to amortize each stage of technology to finance the next one. We are one of Ma Nature's random variations. Like the others, we sometimes offer a seldom-needed but worthwhile input, but we have to find our own way, and have low odds of success. I was able to do some extremely advanced R&D, but failed to build a business or even inspire copyists, so I have not actually achieved social utility. My boyhood heroes all advised getting a business partner, but even there, my low EQ led to a bad choice, wasting the IQ.



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14 Mar 2017, 3:44 pm

Be careful of what you wish for....

The government would love nothing better than ripping supports from superior, next step on the evolutionary ladder people. Good bye IDEA, SSDI/SSI, all social support...because if you truly ARE superior, you will be smart enough to figure out your way without the government hand out. You won't need to hand hold, push ins, pull outs, IEPs or 504s. No case workers. No supportive staff.

Debbie Devos is already looking to toss IDEA back to the states.

I personally have no f***s to give for people like OP. If that belief gets you through that day without slitting your throat or jumping in front of a bus, why not? But what slays me, is usually the person who says all this, is not employed and getting governmental supports. Easy to be the next step up on someone else's tax dollar.

Since ASD funding/supports are considered nothing but a money pit, spinning it as the new normal would quite please the clowns in power.