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C2V
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16 Jun 2017, 11:40 am

Again I'm unsure where this topic fits in, but I'm curious -
I often feel as if I'm wasting my intellect. I live a relatively simple life intellectually, and often feel as if I could be capable of much more, but there is no channel for this, because I am nonfunctional.
I often dismiss formal education courses because of the content - so much of higher education now is "filler," and not intellectually challenging at all. It often also has nothing whatsoever to do with the core topic and I find it all pointless and boring.
I do my own studies on various topics, but the inertia, I have been told, is a sort of executive dysfunction. Thus it's hard to stay on track without a structure, unless I'm utterly obsessed with the topic.
I find I cannot conform to how society dictates that intellectual advancement be pursued, because one must be highly functional for that.
Anyone had a similar impression, or have ideas on how an autistic person can exercise, improve and use, their intellectual abilities if functional level is low?


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zeitgeistbuster
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16 Jun 2017, 12:26 pm

Geez, that is a tough question, but a really good one!

Do you read? You say that higher education is mostly filler 'now' , How about older books? Or technical manuals?

How about games? I know that they are not deeply intellectual, but there are many math and trivia games that can keep your mind sharp, after a fashion.



BTDT
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16 Jun 2017, 1:08 pm

I am lucky enough to have a big yard for gardening. Each year I try to grow better plants.

I just ordered some electronic test gear so I can study electronic circuits at home.

Yes, course work can be boring. I've always been more project oriented.



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16 Jun 2017, 5:26 pm

I agree with you that formal education can be, at times, alot of "fluff" (or, "filler", as you say).

One of the things that I LOVE to do, to help keep my mind sharp, is crossword puzzles. If you've never, really, tried to "tackle" them, before, I suggest getting yourself a really good crossword dictionary (I have a really good one, by Bantam), and doing just general ones (AND, doing really easy ones - I like "Dell Pocket Easy Crossword Puzzles", for when I just want something to do [like, waiting for my turn, at the doctor's office], and I'm not really wanting / needing to think / learn anything, really), until you learn the "rhythm" of crosswords----or, I also like themed crossword puzzles, to help further my understanding / studying of a special interest (like, for me, biology, and the Bible, for example); or, one could do themed puzzles to start a NEW interest.

http://www.crosswordpuzzles.net/themed-crosswords

Alot of what it takes to do crossword puzzles (if you don't already know), is that there's "tricks"----to learning how to do them, and tricks that the writers use, to "enhance" your experience / challenge you, in completing them----and, once you can get a good handle on these things (like, when words are nouns and also adjectives, for instance [like, "content"]; and, when the tense of the clue will be the tense of the answer [present or past] - or, when the clue is an adverb, it usually means the answer will be an adverb), and when the most common usage of the word, is not the way they're using it; also, it really helps to be up on pop culture, with alot of the puzzles one finds in newspapers and magazines (but, that's not ALWAYS the case - and, besides, one can usually find the answer on the net----especially, if they've already got a couple letters from entering other words).





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16 Jun 2017, 7:16 pm

yes.
I chose a career that I loved- only to learn after university that basically I loved it for intellectual theoretical reasons that, it seemed, only a small proportion of academics would understand. But unlike the academic section of my field, the practical section doesn't care one bit about it all.
I'm not particularly verbally gifted, I find the academic texts in my field a bit random, and frankly, as a practicioner, I understand why other practitioners don't bother too much.

so I'm somewhere inbetween two approaches that both don't really fit me, between a theory that feels out of touch with the practice (which does have problems that need theory, but since the academics aren't very good practitioners, they don't even reach the interesting problems) - and a practice that is intellectually ... insulting.
so I'm often wondering what to do these days, whether to do a phd, even though I'm aware that the theory I'd be doing is of little interest to today's academics, because it would deal with very practical problems- or keep doing practical work, which is so much more brick and mortar and deadlines and doing it cheaper, - who cares if it sucks a little...

I've fallen out of love for my field a bit...


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C2V
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17 Jun 2017, 12:10 pm

It's so frustrating - and I think that is the basis of this. Functioning level frustration.
Things like doing crossword puzzles, gardening, reading - all of which I do indeed do - seem to be pointless because they don't mean anything to a wider context. In the broad scheme of things they really will have no value in the world at large. One does these things in isolation for no end goal, and they will ultimately have no positive impact to other life, and one cannot build a life on them.Thus, they seem a waste of intellect.
Everything I write seems to indicate that it's frustration around being intellectually capable (and I'm not flaunting ego - I have been tested and told that in purely analytical ways I'm above average, whatever little value their tests really convey) but functionally useless. People have often suggested I pursue higher education because I am "smart" (please note the heavy sarcasm of those quotations) and can handle the material no problems, without understanding that I cannot handle the "normal" system to get there - structured classes designed for neurotypical minds which I must attend on a regimented basis regardless of how well I am (or more pointedly am not) functioning, the years of training and the inability to support myself financially, the filler, the pointless humiliating "group work" crap that has crept in, the pressure and expectations, the interaction with others, the verbal communication, the conformity. And in a job, the expectations of consistency always mean I am left behind, because I cannot keep up. Overload, burnout.
It's frustrating to feel like you have the "smarts" and could really make something of your life, if only you weren't a nonfunctional autistic. But I'm sure some reading here have encountered this very situation.


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Lost
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17 Jun 2017, 7:19 pm

I understand your frustration. I'm intelligent and have been told so a number of times during my life.
Yet my executive functioning is so poor that I can't apply that intelligence in a useful way. I dropped out of university (college) in my first year as I basically burned out. I have ASD and ADHD which was undiagnosed at that time so without support I was never going to make much progress.

I've had to find my own way of coping with keeping my brain sufficiently challenged and engaged whilst avoiding overload and burnout. I avoid employment that requires complex skills and instead focus on my special interests.



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17 Jun 2017, 7:59 pm

C2V wrote:
Again I'm unsure where this topic fits in, but I'm curious -
I often feel as if I'm wasting my intellect. I live a relatively simple life intellectually, and often feel as if I could be capable of much more, but there is no channel for this, because I am nonfunctional.
I often dismiss formal education courses because of the content - so much of higher education now is "filler," and not intellectually challenging at all. It often also has nothing whatsoever to do with the core topic and I find it all pointless and boring.
I do my own studies on various topics, but the inertia, I have been told, is a sort of executive dysfunction. Thus it's hard to stay on track without a structure, unless I'm utterly obsessed with the topic.
I find I cannot conform to how society dictates that intellectual advancement be pursued, because one must be highly functional for that.
Anyone had a similar impression, or have ideas on how an autistic person can exercise, improve and use, their intellectual abilities if functional level is low?


You do not actually have to be enrolled in college courses to take them. Most colleges and universities have a way to audit the course, meaning sit in on it. At some schools this is a formal process, and at other schools it's an informal process where you just ask the instructor if you could sit in on the course. The only time they usually say no is if there isn't enough seating.



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19 Jun 2017, 12:11 pm

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19 Jun 2017, 11:52 pm

I was working in a factory doing the simple jobs that nobody wanted to do, 20 years ago. A couple months after I went back to work after the Christmas holidays, I kept telling myself that a good mind is a terrible thing to waste. I had my breakdown in the April of 1998. It came clear to me that my mum didn't accept me the way that I was at the time. Both things led to the breakdown.


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Alita
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20 Jun 2017, 12:54 pm

C2V wrote:
It's so frustrating - and I think that is the basis of this. Functioning level frustration.
Things like doing crossword puzzles, gardening, reading - all of which I do indeed do - seem to be pointless because they don't mean anything to a wider context. In the broad scheme of things they really will have no value in the world at large. One does these things in isolation for no end goal, and they will ultimately have no positive impact to other life, and one cannot build a life on them.Thus, they seem a waste of intellect.
Everything I write seems to indicate that it's frustration around being intellectually capable (and I'm not flaunting ego - I have been tested and told that in purely analytical ways I'm above average, whatever little value their tests really convey) but functionally useless. People have often suggested I pursue higher education because I am "smart" (please note the heavy sarcasm of those quotations) and can handle the material no problems, without understanding that I cannot handle the "normal" system to get there - structured classes designed for neurotypical minds which I must attend on a regimented basis regardless of how well I am (or more pointedly am not) functioning, the years of training and the inability to support myself financially, the filler, the pointless humiliating "group work" crap that has crept in, the pressure and expectations, the interaction with others, the verbal communication, the conformity. And in a job, the expectations of consistency always mean I am left behind, because I cannot keep up. Overload, burnout.
It's frustrating to feel like you have the "smarts" and could really make something of your life, if only you weren't a nonfunctional autistic. But I'm sure some reading here have encountered this very situation.


Sorry to hear you're going through it too. Story of my life, as they say.

I often wonder if it's Asperger's that squashes my potential or poor upbringing. I was raised partly by the family TV set and find I can't live without some such constant stimulus. Then I have friends who went to good private schools and seem to be doing much more than me and people I know who all went to public schools.

Is it our ASDs that stop us from being functional or something else? Like a lack of good guidance, great role models, mentors, assistants, support networks and the right conditions to concentrate?

Because I seriously remember working in places with like-minded people where I felt damn productive.


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20 Jun 2017, 11:19 pm

I got a First Class Honours degree and made a half-successful attempt at a 'career' for a decade or so, but it all imploded as I couldn't deal with the whole thing in the end and it all seemed unreal. I now spend several hours a day either travelling around on the bus, sitting in the library or playing video games, but it's not as bad as it sounds.



BTDT
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21 Jun 2017, 6:23 am

Alita wrote:
Like a lack of good guidance, great role models, mentors, assistants, support networks and the right conditions to concentrate?

Because I seriously remember working in places with like-minded people where I felt damn productive.


I didn't have the stuff you said you were missing either.

But, like you, I routinely rose to the level of whatever competition I was in. I went to a really bad HS, then a really good one, then a good uni, then a well matched job for 30+ years.