Post adolescent disillusionment with "the real world

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Hi everyone,

I'd just like to preface my first post with appreciation for this site. It's good to see a thriving community of like minded people helping each other out. It's quite difficult for me to relate to most people and so their advice is generally not too useful. Hopefully you guys can give me a bit of guidance...

I'm 24 years old and I finished my BE (mechanical) and Bsc (physics) last year. I'm very accomplished for my age and quite employable... on paper. I've worked previously for a year at a government research institution (whilst still at uni), and I've done a bit of contract work, but I've never worked in the private sector until now.

When I was doing my degree, I felt intensely creative, meticulously artistic and generally very productive. It felt like the world was my oyster. I was full of grandiose ideas and inventions and was generally pretty happy with life. I was playing music in a pretty skilled band, which was my other main interest outside of technical pursuits.

Over the last year my band broke up, I went through a pretty bad breakup, and I've been thrust headfirst into the rat race working in private sector research.

In a nutshell, I hate my job. I can't understand how all of the people around me are seemingly content with their tasks. My fundamental problem is that the work essentially involves a linear implementation path. What needs to be done and how it needs to be done is well known, and someone just needs to come and do it. There's no cognitive leap required. It feels like I'm a technical carpenter doing skilled labour. It's very uninspiring, despite all of the reassurances that I've netted one of the best jobs available to a fresh graduate.

I'm continually told that my company is one of the best places to work in Sydney, and there's a certain romanticism that most of the employees share about our working conditions, but I just can't relate to that. Instead I sit at my desk wallowing in my septic tank of malcontent, whittling away the day by making fractions with increasingly large denominators to express how much of the day has lapsed and how much remains

I've found myself indulging more in substance abuse to numb this dreary reality. I've been trying to cut back on most things, but I do tend to binge drink quite hard on the weekends. I feel the mental atrophy creeping up on me and it really scares me. Were all of my coworkers inspired people that were bludgeoned into subservience through understimulation?

It's difficult to get out of bed most days and I tend to waste the weekends recovering and just generally feeling depressed. I wish I could be a model employee instead of this childish subversive flake, but I just can't motivate myself enough. The worst part is I can't be productive in my spare time because the whole experience is so draining.


Anyway, enough rambling.... Now to the question. My ex girlfriend takes Lovan (one of many anti depressants similar to prozac). She tells me that it has a motivational component to it and it could really help me. My friends are against the idea though. Most of them think that taking anti depressants will cause me to become dependent on them and that it is a fairly extreme measure.


Has anyone had a similar experience to mine? Do you think anti depressants are too drastic? Should I take a different approach to the problem?

Thanks.

I don't have the answers, but I recommend looking at this.

Yes, when you were in school, YOU were paying THEM to (as we say in The States) blow hot air up your skirt. (show you a good time). It was their JOB to get you to feel stimulated and worthy and all of that, because you know, when the Alumni think about the old Alma Mater, t hey dig deep into their bank accounts! It is a good set up, actually, and Now, THEY (the career your were groomed for) are paying YOU to do the same for THEM. That's the only difference, actually.




yes, it is depressing when you find out - as that great philosopher Bob Dylan said "twenty years of schoolin' and they put you on the day shift" But you have to understand your co-workers will not figure out what you have for years and maybe decades from now and then have a 'mid life crisis'. The problem is, you figured it out in a nanosecond.




well, (ahem) I am glad you are making good use of your time. LOL



ah, now, parsec, you give them too much credit! Few of them think about it, really. Most of them have fallen into the 'married with children' situation and have willingly taken the spirit crushing job so they may feel the chubby (and sticky with jam) arms of their progeny about their necks and some deep seated primal urge satisfied by providing for these little creatures. This involves housing and transportation and buying groceries regularly and insurance and investments and on and on. . all with their dependence on the job daddy or mommy has. This is what bludgeons them into subservience, mate. Add into the mix alimony and child support if you try to divorce this domestic bliss and it is even more stifling. ( I have never had that happen to me, but I see photos of children festooning even the lowliest cubicle, so it must be so.)




sigh, it's a shame, really. the self medication is just depressing you and could lead to REAL adventure down the road - being sacked, boozing your savings away, getting a reputation for being a boozer won't help you in your future job prospects, becoming alcoholic and living on the streets will REALLY make you start longing for the old days of stifling boredom counting down the fractions of hours. . .




your friends are true friends, parsec. they are right on the money about this one, and toss in your binge drinking with those anti- depressants, too. there is only one cure for you, my boy.



BINGO! (crikey, do they say BINGO when someone has hit on the exact solution in Oz?)

you, my friend, need to become an entrepreneur ! Use that razor sharp mind to come up with something nobody knows they need yet and devise a way to get it to them! Gather your mates about you and get that band going again! Turn that laser like brainpower into a reason to get up in the AM! read a book, "starting a business for dummies" or some such so you can get your bearings and then DO it.

You are in someone ELSE's dream job. . . not your own! And that is it in a nutshell.

and good luck

Merle

Last edited by sinsboldly on 26 May 2007, 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

this happened with me. while doing my degree, my life was happy. i finished the course as the second best one in year. motivation is great thing. if you have that, you can achieve anything.

now i do PhD, it's not so bad work, i actually work for myself, on my own research. but it's stressful, things are not so good, as they used to be. it seems to me, like all the others around have less difficult subjects. only my functions are unstable. i'm not worse than them. it feels unfair. therefore, i, too, have difficulties to motivate myself. but i would not take a medication to gain the motivation. my biggest motivation is to finish it and maybe then i start working on something that i'll be more motivated to do (though, i know it very well may not happen).

unfortunately, i don't know how to answer your question. i was never taking any medication of this kind. i would take only as the last hope. you do right thing asking it here, though. good luck.

thanks for the incisive replies.

I considered doing a PHD but decided I should probably find some stability, direction and purpose before making such a big committment. What are you doing your PHD on?

It's interesting that you feel this way. I don't think I've ever come across such a cynical description of parenthood. All of my coworkers have children, or at least a mortgage. I find their anecdotes incredibly trite but at the same time I am envious of their seemingly effortless bliss. I went through a (Randian) phase in my teens where I was convinced that children were a waste of time and that true happiness can only be sought through the creation of the ordered product of intellectual effort. I was very clinical about the pros and cons of prospective fatherhood, and even had most of my friends convinced that having kids is an inane lifestyle choice.

"I chose not to choose life, I chose something else" - Renton

I've found myself warming to the idea of having children more as I've grown older, but I'm also very aware of both an evolutionary and chemical disposition towards procreation as a natural step after love and long term companionship. I can't help but wonder whether I'd end up embracing parenthood wholeheartedly, or entirely regretting having kids and hating my white picket fence life.

At this stage I'm almost resigned to the fact that I'll eventually have at least one child, partly because it seems like the only way to give one's life any meaning, but at the same time I know deep down that I'm going to feel like I did it because it's the done thing, not because I really wanted to. I think part of me thinks that i'll be content with subservience if I have such a powerful commitment and responsibility in my life.

My mum used to always tell me that she sacrificed a lot to make my (and my sister's) life as good as possible, and if necessary would sacrifice everything. I always thought that was really sad and depressing, albeit noble.

I can relate to your situation.

I did a degree and afterwards realised that despite getting good grades, having good jobs during my degree and even setting up a music teaching scheme, I realised that I wasn't qualified for anything in the real world.

I decided to do a Masters - even though it was expensive (and I got no help with the costs whatsoever - I had to work full time to pay for it as well as studying full time!)

I ended up working for an incredibly abusive employer who bullied me on disability and racial grounds. I just kept thinking 'is this it?'

I then got offered a really good job - but when they found out I has AS they withdrew the offer, which really messed with my confidence.

I am trained as a composer - and that is what I want to do. I have received positive feedback on my music from experienced composers, so I thought it was really worth trying to pursue this as a career.

But, I needed a 'day job' to pay the bills.

Around this time it was about a year since my AS diagnosis and as a result I had got involved in disability equality campaigning.

I saw a job advertised for an arts organisation as a disability access officer. I didn't think I had a chance of getting it.

I applied anyway, was interviewed and got the job!

And it's really great. I am the only access person in the entire organisation which is a lot of responsibility but it means that I get to sort out my own projects and my work is varied and challenging - which is great because I feel like I am finally getting to use my brain!

The job is 4 days a week (for health reasons that is the most I can do) but I am in the process of getting back into composing again too.

So, I guess the point I am making is that
1) You are not the only person to feel like this. It is common to feel disillusioned after university, as it is a world in which you can believe that anything is possible.

2) This job just isn't right for you. It's great that you have a job that is considered to be a really good opportunity - this shows that you are really talented. But if it is not right for you, you need to start thinking about what you would like to do and looking for jobs in papers and online and applying for anything and everything that is of interest to you.

3) As for medication - it's not ideal, and if you job is what is making you depressed, then it is your job that must change, and anti-depressants can't fix that.
But - as, perhaps a short term solution, just to keep you going until you find a better job, it might be worth speaking to a doctor about some anti-depressants as self-medication with alcohol is certainly NOT the answer.

There's a job out there that is right for you, and where the company would be happy to have you.

Good luck.

so you're still thinking of doing a PhD? maybe if you are not happy with your present life, you should consider changing it's direction...
(my PhD is about computational modeling of articular cartilage. actually, i am a programmer.)

Welcome parsec,

Welcome to the adult world, you are seeing it as it is. The problem with education is it seems to go somewhere. Truth is you are being taught what took thousands of years to learn. Most do not know that much, or care.

When you pop out of the machine it is into a world that gets more satisfaction watching football.

The brightest and best are backstabing their way to retirement in their mid twenties.

Real advances in any field are few and far between. Companies exist to exploit the last great thing, usually a decade or two later.

The way it works is your bright young mind is most likely to spit out a good idea if at all, before thirty, so the bright ones are hired, and the contract says, anything developed, patentable, belongs to the company.

You are being mined, someone has a lien on your brain, and many contracts have a yellow dog clause, you cannot use anything you learned working, that would be stealing the trade secrets of your owner, and anything you might patent within five years after leaving the company is considered to be developed on company time, and hence their property.

After thirty, you are over the hill for major thought, the contract covers anything you might have stolen till you are thirty five, so you are turned out to pasture. No longer paid, but still carrying the company brand.

I know someone who painted steel for an oil company, four years later he got a patent on his hobby, a model boat, and teams of oil company lawyers were filing papers at the patent office, and in federal court, he lost the fight.

They are not called extractive industries for nothing.

hi,parsec

I agree with most of what these good folks have already said,and I can relate to many of your ideas and concerns.

Anything the "real world" offers you should be researched and considered by YOU before you agree to participate.You may want children and a white-picket-fence,or even medical help and a corporate life,and there's not necessarily anything wrong with that as long as they are conscious decisions that you feel positive about.

I would suggest you consider anti-depressants as a last resort,or only in times of insurmountable and destructive distress.Like any other drug,they should not be taken lightly,and they will change you.You will need to decide if they are beneficial.And don't get too self-indulgent in self-medication(drink an drugs).They will sap your vitality.

Also,do not believe for a minute that "NT"s have it easy,they simply have elaborate mythologies which define their paths and comfort them in their struggles.It can seem a siren song,the pressure/allure to join the mythology and have a supposedly "easier" life just like they do.But it's not real.Most socializing and fiction is ultimately based in how uncomfortable people make each other.True love and friendship comes from conscious appreciation for life,not rotework and belabored dumb competition(imho).

You are "wired" differently and you will need to define your own life for yourself.I really hope you find ways to forge a life which allows you to feel positive and productive.This world absolutely needs more minds like that.You are not alone,and in my opinion you are lucky.

Last edited by methinks on 26 May 2007, 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Why, thank you, parsec! I have labored long and hard to acheive this mindset. After I became pregnant through date rape (i.e. couldn't stop them) and in my unwed state became a pariah to my family who promptly threw me onto the street where when the child was born it was removed from my custody by the State, never to meet again, and since I was rendered sterile by the birthing process - well, I have tried to comfort myself as I could.



or hormonal. Strange things happen to humans when children enter the picture. Please, make nothing of my pressing my nose against the window pane to watch those with choices . . move along, nothing to see here.

Merle

PS, ( in all seriousness, I had no idea I was so cynical about parenthood. Perhaps it IS a good thing I stay out of the parent threads on this forum! Thank you for the heads up)

Thanks for all the advice. You've given me the resolve to pursue something more interesting. I am concerned that leaving after six months will look bad on my resume so I'm going to voice my concerns on monday and see if I can stick it out in a more interesting role somewhere within the company.

This is frighteningly accurate. I have very restrictive IP clauses in my contract that claim ownership on anything I develop. When I signed the contract I was quite weary of this, and wondered why other employees weren't at all concerned by the fine print. I guess I have my answers now.





I'm more the type of person that sees cynicism as being refreshingly frank rather than unnecessarily negative. Then again I was always a bit racy. The upstart, iconoclast... the person that made everyone else feel uncomfortable at the dinner table.

What happened to you is really very sad and intense. I don't think you should neuter your opinion just because it's bold. Everyone has something to say, and if they don't like it they don't have to read it. We're very much the sum of our experiences, and such an experience lends an entirely different perspective to you than most.

This might seem a bit obvious, but is it possible that your vitriol is a knee jerk reaction to what happened to you and how you were treated? On the upside, you don't have any biological clock concerns (if adoption is at all a possibility), so you are free to change your mind at any time. I'm being quite presumptuous now though, so i'll stop.

I had the same happen to me when I graduated college. I was a mess while in college but I was less of a mess than when out. College provided structure and a peaceful setting (the place I attended had a beautiful campus and amazing libraries). Then once out... poof. I could have been dead and rotting in my apartment and the world would not have known or cared. I tried interviewing but I have poor (spoken) verbal skills so always came across as an imbecile. I met my husband and he seemed kind and caring. So in that sense I was ushered out of the rat race, however shakily so, as it could all end in an instant.

I have children and love them genuinely, and enjoy their company. I was cynical about children before having them, but I guess the finely honed maternal instinct hacked through the awkwardness and pain of intimacy and created a genuine bond. Without them my life would still have meaning but it would not have direction. I'm highly unorganized and my obsessions are pretty useless financially speaking and tend to control me.

Even if you are caught in an unsatisfying situation, remember that you still have your mind. Let it find what interests it and devote yourself to that when you have time or energy. Maybe you could be an entrepreneur like sinsboldly mentioned. You have a lot of value intrinsic to your being whether or not you fit through the square or round hole assigned to you.

Hi Parsec,

Man, can I relate to what you've said about your employment experience ! ! It was like I was reading about myself ! !! Just about every job I ever had felt the same. I worked in Sydney and suburbs for years and found most people I worked with to be drones going through the motions like society had somehow sucked the life right out of them - quite depressing really and difficult to avoid.

I agree with what sinsboldly said, if you can ever achieve it, work for yourself or work by yourself and yes, stay away from the booze, it'll do you no good in the end, I should know, it took me over 20 years to stop drinking once I started. Same goes for medication, it's simply NOT the answer I reckon.

Life satisfaction I think comes from within. It cannot be gained just by getting married, having a family, having the white picket fence, dream job etc. etc. and I do understand the feeling of "there's gotta be more to it than this".

And keep going with your music, one band breaking up ain't the end of the world - in fact most bands break up before they even get to their first gig ! !! I'm a musician too so I know how it feels, like the rug has been pulled out from under your feet ! ! But you gotta keep going, it's the journey with music, not the destination ! !! Who knows, maybe life is the same ! !!

You were both a physicist AND in a BAND... you seem pretty normal to me (especially with the band thing). You are only having the same problems as countless others do.