Is There a Difference Between Older Aspies and Younger Ones?

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Aside from the fact that older aspies like myself have more accumulated life experiences, are there other differences in how older folk interact with the outside world than younger folk?

I watched a video on YouTube by Temple Grandin about her childhood experiences and found myself relating to a lot of what she talked about. Those of us who grew up in the days before the internet, smart phones, and color TV lived during a period when being different was frowned upon.

In the days before IDEA (Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, 1975) and the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act. 1990), special education was largely non-existent. People who had "special" children didn't talk about them with other folk. They certainly wouldn't admit to taking their child to a psychologist or psychiatrist. At school, students were expected to conform and to behave. Anyone who acted out faced the consequences of being caned in the principal's and having your parents called. Although I hated being caned by the principal, I especially hated it when Dad came home because Dad would beat me with his belt.

I wasn't diagnosed with autism until 2014 when I was 54. As a child when I tried to self stim at home either by flapping my hands or shaking my head, my mother would give me one warning after which she'd slap the heck out of me. In today's world this would have been abusive behavior but back in the 60's, this was just assertive parenting. The same was also true of my father taking his folded leather belt to my backside.

As with Temple Grandin, my parents forced me to socialize. When I was just a toddler, they made arrangements for play dates. When I got older, they made me participate in various extracurricular activities ... swimming ... horseback riding ... piano ... gymnastics (eye roll at the thought of having been the ONLY boy in a class filled with girls wearing leotards) ... Cub Scouts (and later Boy Scouts).

Although my father was an atheist, every time we visited our relatives during the summer, we always had to go to the Methodist Church and I always had to join my cousins at the MYF, Methodist Youth Fellowship. During weeks when we weren't visiting our relatives, I was often packed off to summer camp.

I HATED being forced to socialize. I especially hated having to share a cabin with a bunch of strangers. Don't get me started on what it was like to have to take group showers with bullies who thought it was funny to beat younger children with wet rolled up towels that were known as "rat tails" or older kids who would flip over our beds and make us do push ups and jumping jacks because they were "proctors" i.e. older kids who were assigned to help supervise the younger ones.

Forced socialization was incredibly stressful but this also had the effect of making me learn how to interact with others. I learned how to play fairly, how to take turns, how to have a conversation, how to share, and all sorts of other social skills that neurotypicals seem to instinctively pick up. I even learned how to kick a bully in the you-know-where. Had it not been for the other kids, I would have taken a great deal of pleasure from repeatedly kicking the bully in the ribs as he lay groaning on the tiles of the shower floors but social etiquette being what it was, it wasn't considered "proper" to hit someone when they were down even though this seemed like a great opportunity to really get some payback.

Forced socialization also taught me that no matter how stressful a given experience was, I could weather the proverbial storm and survive the experience. Although this didn't make me more receptive towards future forced interactions, it did help me develop the confidence to know that I would survive and that I could "do this" even if I didn't want to.

When Temple Grandin speaks of similar experiences, she talks about the importance of learning structure and how the unwritten rules of social etiquette were reinforced through forced socialization and daily routines at home as well as all of the rules and expectations that were learned at school and church.

Since I didn't know that I was different (and initially assumed that everyone was just as stressed out as I was), I wasn't aware that I HAD any limitations. Crying that I couldn't do something was not acceptable to my parents, especially my father since "real men" didn't cry. Whenever I whimpered or complained, I was told to suck it up. The threat of my father's belt made me move forward because his verbal disappointment was preferable to being beaten for having been insubordinate and argumentative.

My father was a medical officer in the U.S. Public Health Service which is the medical branch of the Coast Guard. During the Vietnam War, he wore his uniform and after we watched The Sound of Music, he forced my sister and me to have "berth" inspections.

We were taught how to make our "bunks" in the military fashion and during our inspection, we had to "stand to" at attention in front of our "bunks." As the oldest child, I saluted my father while snapping out the words, "SENIOR CHILD REPORTS BERTH READY FOR INSPECTION, SIR!" My father would then return the salute whereupon I was allowed to drop my arm. Not only did my father then inspect our beds (bunks) but he also inspected our toy chests, closets, and dressers. We were not allowed to leave anything out. All clothes had to either be hung up in the closet or folded in a dresser drawer. Dirty clothes were required to be in the laundry hamper. All books had to be upright in the bookcase. All toys had to be in the toy chests. Failure resulted in KP (kitchen police) duties such as washing and drying dishes or taking out the trash.

My childhood was harsh but in forcing me to conform to social norms and in forcing me to socialize, my parents taught me to be independent and self reliant.

In contrast to the way I was raised, I wonder if part of the reason so many younger adults are having problems with going to college, applying for jobs, and starting a career is because parenting has become more progressive. Advances in technology have facilitated on-line schooling. Online gaming fantasy worlds have at least in part replaced the mandatory extracurricular activities that I had to participate in as a child.

Where as older aspies had to learn how to interact with others, I wonder if younger aspies were enabled. While on-line schooling alleviated stress while also significantly reducing problems with bullying, I wonder if access to on-line schooling and gaming have also made today's young adults less skilled with face to face interpersonal communication.

Younger aspies who were diagnosed with ASD have also had the opportunity to play the ASD card with their parents. Although I never had this opportunity, after learning I was autistic, I've had no problem with playing the autism card with my employer. As a teacher, being autistic has gotten me out of pep rallies, some faculty meetings, having to supervise student proms, and any expectation of attending high school athletic events.

I daresay that if had received a clinical diagnosis as a child, I would have played that card for all it was worth to get out of as many extracurricular activities as possible.

I am curious as to whether or not this theory I've written about has any merit. Are older aspies who weren't clinically diagnosed until much later in life more socially adept than younger aspies? Please understand that I am not disparaging younger folk in anyway. I am simply pointing out that we grew to maturity during different times and the expectations for following cultural norms were a lot different back in the 60's than they are today.

I believe you made lots of valid points—and I agree with you in some, but not all, points.

I was raised strictly—but not quite as strictly as you. I got hit with the belt, but I didn’t go through the military-style regimen.

Some “forced socialization” is necessary—but some of this, in my experience,was borne out of hypocrisy and sheer “taking it out on you.”

My experiences at camp were similar. But I purely thought the kids you mentioned were a**holes. All that taught me was that I wanted, at all costs, to avoid assholery. It did have a paradoxical effect—in that it pointed me towards wanting to hang out with intelligent kids, and learn from intelligent adults—not those who enjoyed punishing, and maybe sexually abusing a kid or two.

I feel that some people need to “grow some”—but other autistic people, raised similarly, could never “grow some” because they were so traumatized, and because they don’t have the “means” to do so (despite being intelligent and accomplished in some ways). Alternative parenting would have encouraged them to shine.

In sum, I believe strict parenting and forced socialization could benefit some on the Spectrum—especially when Love is also explicitly conveyed. Others, though, would be left by the wayside.

I had to be strong, and develop alternative means of living, in order for me to not be left by the wayside. Though I did benefit some from not being treated as “disabled,” and coddled as a result.

In essence, as far as individuals are concerned, I would take it on a "case-by-case" basis. There are some people who might meet the definition of a "special snowflake." Yet there are others who might SEEM to fit that definition, who actually would find it quite difficult to "rise" from "where they are."

One cannot really tell based upon writing on forums---whether they can benefit from a little kick-in-the-butt. Though I know of people, in person, who could benefit.

What the OP went through while acceptable parenting at the time was abusive. I bought into and still in many ways have those "real men don't cry", looking into oneself is unmanly, "just deal with it" attitudes. If I did not have those attitudes I believe I could have gotten diagnosed 15 years earlier than I did and it would have made a major difference in how my life evolved. The attitude meant I let physical things go on too long and that has proven costly.

That said I agree with a lot of what has been said above. The combination of permissive and helicopter parenting is a major problem. More specific to autistics many of the young are diagnosed and know at a very young age that they have a "disability" and know what supposedly they can't do. Their neurotype is replacing "ret*d" as a popular insult. They have the ability read daily about all sorts of "cures/treatments" meant to stop them from doing what comes naturally. While a lot of the aversives and physical discipline have gone away it has been replaced by positive sounding methods with the same what you do is the wrong message. While some of the physical bullyings has gone away it has been replaced by 24/7 invasive cyberbullying which is worse. This generation has to go through all of the above before they are mature. No wonder the suicide/suicide ideation is on the rise for young people in general and the rates among autistics are atrocious.

While I would not want to go back to the 60's things have gone too far in the other direction. We need to find some happy medium which America seems incapable of doing.

^^^ I was just thinking of that: Happy Medium.

We, perhaps, have gone too much in the other direction.

Too much of this "political correctness" and giving out prizes to kids just for showing up. I received a trophy once for finishing in third place; I wanted to throw the thing out the window.

You're right. For the longest time I used to think that everyone was raised this way. It took me years to accept that my father was abusive. It took me even longer to confront my father who of course got very upset and shouted, "WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME? DO YOU WANT ME TO APOLOGIZE? I APOLOGIZE! ARE YOU HAPPY? WELL? LOOK AT ME WHEN I'M TALKING TO YOU! I APOLOGIZED! YOU SHOULD BE HAPPY!" (sigh) I was in my 30's at the time.

We didn't talk for a year after this. Although we now correspond, I haven't seen him in close to 20 years.

Getting back to the premise of this thread, I will say that since I didn't know I was autistic, I didn't know I had any disabilities and I didn't have any excuses for not trying. As with Gene Kranz of NASA fame, "Failure was not an option." I didn't understand this the first time my father told me this. From a statistical viewpoint, failure (while not desirable) was always a possibility and denying the possibility of failure did not seem logical. It didn't help that at the time, my father had taken me quail hunting and wanted me to shoot a rock that he was going to toss overhead. Since I had never fired a weapon, the possibility of failure seemed quite high despite my father's "Failure is not an option" expectation.



I think it's interesting that Thomas Edison is also quoted as having said, "I haven't failed. I've found 10,000 ways that don't work."

My childhood wasn't idyllic. It was really quite stressful but by pushing me past my limits and by making me go far outside my comfort zone, my parents helped prepare me for leaving home to go to college and for having a career and a life on my own.

In contrast, I've read many posts at this forum as well as others from people whose parents enabled their autism by allowing them to take on-line classes and not forcing them to socialize. Although I wish I had had the opportunity to take on-line classes and to not socialize as a kid, I must admit that these experiences better prepared me for an independent life.

Last edited by ChefDave on 21 May 2018, 12:30 pm, edited 5 times in total.

We tend to weigh more.

Sorry, I couldn't resist. I will have to read the OP thoroughly and then post but I just had to throw that into the pot.

yeah, some of them are older.

I don't disagree with that. That's true.

No online classes for me, obviously. My report cards were still filled out in pen. Weren't even typed.

Ever see the TV show "Chef," Dave?

It's a British comedy.

It's sort of a satire on the relationship between chefs and their employees; but it also makes the main character seem sophisticated and erudite.

I've never heard of it. I just checked Amazon and saw that they have the series on DVD for about $28.00. I wonder if it's on Netflix.

I enjoy culinary themed programs but don't really want to spend $28.00 on a DVD. YouTube might have excerpts.

Thanks!

David

Coming from a younger aspie, I think what you said about forced socialization is at least partially true. My parents expect me to try hard and do my best, but I am definitely not pushed as hard as you were to do activities and socialize. I don’t take online classes (I go to a mainstream public school), but I’m not forced into doing extracurricular or social activities at all really. I play violin, I’m doing marching band, and I will probably attempt to get a job and volunteer next year. I’m okay with doing that much, and while my parents would enjoy it if I did more, they are okay with the amount I participate in now.

I am not sure what my future will hold, but I’m hoping that my skills in areas like academics and my interests will be able to compensate for areas in which I struggle in. I think I could likely benefit from being forced to do more things socially and being held to a higher standard, but at the same time, it seems (at least to me) that really didn’t do you much good, other than in your occupational/social functioning. I think some of us younger people could be pushed a bit more, including myself, but at the same time, I don’t think it is a good idea to go too far with it because of the negative effects it could have.

Actually, there are many sensible young people like Stampy.

Stampy, I feel, really has a good head on her shoulders.

Thanks kraftie .

Wow! That's a lot better than what I did. My father was in military service and I spent my early childhood abroad. While we were overseas, my parents signed me up for all sorts of extracurricular activities. After we returned stateside, in time for my junior year, they pretty much left me to myself.

11th grade was my first experience with a public high school. I didn't like it. Although we hadn't had AP overseas, we did have advanced classes. All of my American classmates in Thailand and El Salvador were on or above grade level. Back in the states I encountered a lot of students who were at school for the social scene. They were too busy chasing girls and being cool to care about their studies. I wound up being horribly bored and graduated at the end of my junior year. I took senior English over the summer and wound up going to college when I was 17.



I think you'll be happier if you could align your interest with a related career.

In terms of my experiences, forced socialization hasn't made me want to socialize or to have friends. It HAS prepared me for working with others and working as part of a productive team. It even prepared me for working abroad. Given my background, I haven't had problems with packing up and moving somewhere where I don't know anyone. I have previously worked at American schools in Saudi Arabia as well as Lebanon.

In this, I think that forced socialization provided a toughening up experience that allowed me to look for employment opportunities that might have otherwise been outside my comfort zone. In retrospect, my comfort zone did not include responding to in-coming scud missile attacks in Saudi Arabia during the 1st Gulf War or being bombed in Beirut by the Israeli Air Force. (sigh) After returning stateside I had issues with post-traumatic stress disorder.

In contrast, on this forum posts by people who can't handle the stress of going way to college. I've read about people who can't work with others or who can't hold a job.

This is not to say that I'm some sort of Super Aspie ... though admittedly my rather intense focus on projects sometimes feels like a super power because it makes me oblivious to time, hunger, thirst, or the need to sleep. My cats keep me grounded because while they probably don't care about whether or not I eat, they will let me know if I've missed one of their twice daily moist meals. The cats will also interrupt me when they want to be cuddled.

Some people on this board have active social lives. Some are even (gasp) married. At 57 years of age, I still avert my eyes when a couple on TV kiss. This is one reason I like NetFlix. With NetFlix I can always fast forward through the smoochy part of the film.

Yeah, it does seem we aspie kids nowadays are not really pushed as much. I haven’t been forced to do any of those activities; I chose to do them, and it is very few anyways.

The same reason why I don’t like my public school very much . I don’t mind the academics at all, but nowadays it seems that too many students show up to school just to increase their social status. That is amazing how you were able to go to college at only 17!

I plan on becoming a doctor, as medicine is pretty much my main topic of interest and always has been to varying degrees. I sincerely doubt I could make a living off my other main interest (gaming YouTube channel) .

I’m really sorry you were forced into socialization, but it did seem like a good thing when you were forced to work in groups/function in a team later in life. That’s something I don’t really have. I can sort of function in a group, but I always end up getting left behind or being unable to do anything. The fact that you were able to step outside of your comfort zone enough to teach in a dangerous area and were forced to deal with that is just strong. In these ways I wish I was forced into socializing more.

The only idea I would have is that the aspies who can’t hold a job might have been raised similarly, but have such a degree of disability that it is virtually impossible for them to keep a job or do the other things you mentioned. This sparks the argument of whether they just weren’t forced out of their comfort zone enough or whether the degree of disability is just too much. It’s an interesting topic.

I’m married lol...but I’m still squeamish when I see people kiss.