Would You Take a Course to Learn Social Skills?

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Dear_one
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02 Nov 2018, 5:35 am

Such a course would probably be good for me, but I don't see topics to get me started. All my life, I have found very little room between boring and scary. Now, there's a lot more scary, but still few people in between. I have not practised my social skills much lately, but I'm told they are generally fine. If I feel the need, I can keep small talk going with most people, but I'm not actually interested, partly because I can't imagine other minds well, but mainly because I think they are wasting their lives.
Many people may need lessons in how to contact people immersed in their 'phones. It probably isn't polite to throw a cloth over it. Personally, I also have trouble over only being willing to eat when there are no dead animals around. Given that I understand cows better than most people understand me, I find most meals dreadfully insensitive.



Chummy
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02 Nov 2018, 6:16 pm

Scipio wrote:
This is NOT an advertisement and I am NOT plugging anything here.

This is only a question. I just want to get the opinions of some other autistic people on this site.



Background:

I have been studying and practicing social skills intensively for 10 years now and traveling/living around the world to test what works best in what type of environment. you could say that social skills are one of my special interests so they have captivated me ever since I learned at age 16 from an internet forum, which probably no longer exists, that they could be learned and even hacked. I have since that time been obsessed with not only passing for normal but being better than normal by learning social skills to an even higher level than an NT naturally would because most NT people tend to reach a plateau once they have become functional and not think about social skills consciously beyond that.

I absolutely refuse to believe that being autistic means inevitably being a loser or a passive wallflower.

To share what I have learned, I am in the process of creating an online course website to teach social skills to autistic teenagers and adults because I know what it is like to not know where to find helpful information about how to improve my social skills and what it is like to go through the pain and risk of trial and error for years at a time without having a clear goal or role model to compare my successes and failure with. I want to take some of that stress off of others and reduce the learning curve as much as possible so that, instead of years, they could learn something in weeks or months.

I have a few courses under construction but I want to get some input from other autistic people before I throw too much of my time and energy into any one of them. Basically, I want to make sure that I am creating something that other people actually want so I can provide the maximum amount of help to the people who choose to learn from me.



Question:

If you could have a course teaching how to handle one aspect of social life such as

- Eye contact
- Voice tone modulation
- Facial expressions
- Mitigating anxiety
- How to initiate and keep a conversation going indefinitely
- Asking good questions and actually listening
- Small talk
- Disguising ticks and stimming so as not to draw unwanted attention
- Leveraging your autistic traits to become interesting and popular instead of weird and unattractive
- Speaking clearly
- Handling sensory issues
- Identifying toxic individuals, energy vampires, and psychopaths and avoiding them
- Clothing style (this actually matters socially)
- Physical fitness, posture, and basic nutrition (this actually matters socially)
- Initiating contact with the opposite gender
- Making and keeping friends
- Traveling abroad as an autistic person
- etc.

what kind of course would you want?

This is something I am very passionate about but, if I create a course that nobody wants, I'm not really helping anyone so I would like some input.

Thanks everyone and I hope that you are all doing great!



Sincerely,
Scipio


I do nearly all things listed proficiently and naturally as I am very friendly, social and most importantly truly emphatic towards others I care about, which is a super rare attribute in all ASD persons (and quite uncommon for NTs nowdays actually) I've ever met to the point I couldn't handle being around them - they were too antisocial.

The things I DO have trouble with is definitely mitigating anxiety/frustrating situations when they happen. Also I do have some sensory issues tho in check (still I hate them nonetheless). Making new friends is hard at the moment because I just recently moved to a city I know almost nobody in (lived roughly 6 years in a faraway place). So wouldn't mind some more company. My place is a bit too big for 1 person haha.



robnl
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04 Nov 2018, 4:38 pm

Sure I'd go for a class like that. Like many others have echoed I am somewhat skeptical. However if you can explain how you did it in concrete terms that are directly applicable and if you could be precise about the situations each of your skills applies to that is what is needed to get through to this audience. If you are going to describe things in abstract terms, then make sure you define each term to a really deep level. Being on the spectrum my issue is that I can't follow you if you get too abstract and it just piles on that I am a bigger loser than I thought. Please don't take others criticism too harshly - I think they'd like to see you suceed, I know I would. Chin up and get it done!



Fnord
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04 Nov 2018, 5:56 pm

Is the course accredited?

Are the instructors certified to teach?

Is the school licensed to do business?



green0star
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05 Nov 2018, 10:03 am

It would be useful that way when my folks try to push me into going to a church group then I wouldn't run the risk of embarrassing myself by saying the wrong thing ...



Dear_one
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05 Nov 2018, 10:14 am

The general problem here is that we are trying to substitute IQ for EQ, and it just isn't as fast at those jobs. Various situations have left me confused for years before a simple explanation occurred to me. I'd want general principles, not lists of rules to follow.



Richard_the_ Dogged
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05 Nov 2018, 5:05 pm

ezbzbfcg2

Quote:
What do you suggest? I think survivability is a big part of trying to adapt to the NT world.


But these courses do not help one survive. Would you give a social skills course to a black man living under Jim Crow, or in South Africa living under Apartheid?

Rather than teaching people to comply with normative social standards, we need to be raising political consciousness and teaching people to organize and fight back. First and foremost one must learn that they have been subjected to injustice. What you are calling the NT World is not only ableism, it is fascism.

Frances Tustin was treating ASD with psychoanalysis, because she recognized that it was a defensive hardening, applied out of necessity after abuse and persecution.

While psychoanalysis is not fighting back, it is a huge improvement over Disorder, Defect, Neurological Difference, Aversion Therapy, and Transcranial Magnets.

Someone who has been persecuted has learned that it is best to avoid eye contact, because that can be an entry point for people intent on further persecution.

If you insist on saying that there is such a thing as Autism / Asperger's, then I say it is simply a lived experience, not a defect, disorder or difference. And in the sense of living the experience I am no different from any of the widely read Autism / Asperger's Advocates.

But I am different in that I don't interpret my own experiences, or their experiences, in the same way.

They write about all the things which Aspies are supposedly unable to do. But in writing their books they demonstrate that they are not only able, but actually are far above average in doing such things. But what also comes through is that these advocates believe that they are obliged to conform to normative standards, and so they judge themselves very harshly, and this is why the Autism / Aperger's label is so attractive to them.

Autism / Aspergers, its just like it is with Mental Illness, ADHD, and the Recovery Movement, trying to find in an individual the local of Original Sin.

Often it is the parents seeking this, as this is all what has been called Muchausen's Syndrome By Proxy, or now just Medical Child Abuse.

But even when the parents are not involved, its because the grown child has come to accept this requirement to conform to normative social standards, they have internalized it.

Adolescent Peer Culture is harsh. It is more than that, it can be lethal. It is the continuation of tribal societies and their hot coals and sharp stones. They believe that they have a right to inscribe upon you, to make you conform and to penalize you severely if you do not.

I do not talk about Autism / Aspergers. I only talk about the Shamanic Experience. It is the experience of having intelligence, insight, and mystical abilities. It is also the experience of having been made into an outsider.

Well if you are an outsider, no Social Skills Class is going to change that. All it will do is set you up for more denigration and abuse.

No, those of use who live the Shamanic Experience need to band together and start fighting back, not be learning to be Uncle Tom's.

My original thread:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=369619&start=15


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Autism-Aspergers is just a concept invented to legitimate the abuse of children and adults. Neuro-Diversity is just a way of pleading for pity. Everytime we endorse these concepts, we are further maginalizing ourselves, and encouraging child abuse. Autism-Asperger's could never even exist without Nazi Social Darwinism and Eugenics. So I no longer talk about these, I talk about lived experience, often the experience of being othered and then persecuted. I call this experience of having intelligence, insight, intuition, and mystical abilities, the Shamanic Experience. And those of us who live it need to start banding together and protecting ourselves, each other, and the children of today. Beautiful Planet, just a rotten economic and political system.


sorrowfairiewhisper
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05 Nov 2018, 5:19 pm

I thought about this question and my answer is , yes and no. Yes because I want to socialise and expand my social skills but no, I want to avoid certain people, especially if they're not the type of people i'd mix with. Also, to be brutally honest, since the world seems to be going mad in this day and age, I want to avoid people more so too. Conflicting.



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05 Nov 2018, 6:31 pm

I would be curious about it, at least. I find it hard to learn more "meta" topics, like how relationships develop, different social norms across different groups, the meaning behind things like small talk, etc. There's a lot of information already on things like posture and eye contact.



Richard_the_ Dogged
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05 Nov 2018, 6:44 pm

But the main purpose of the course would be to get you to accept the idea that you have a defect, disorder, difference, rather than to help you understand that you have been living in a state of persecution. It is just like Religion and Recovery, turn the issue back onto the survivor.

And the course would be unrealistic, telling you that just by playacting that you can restore your social and civil standing.

Richard


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Autism-Aspergers is just a concept invented to legitimate the abuse of children and adults. Neuro-Diversity is just a way of pleading for pity. Everytime we endorse these concepts, we are further maginalizing ourselves, and encouraging child abuse. Autism-Asperger's could never even exist without Nazi Social Darwinism and Eugenics. So I no longer talk about these, I talk about lived experience, often the experience of being othered and then persecuted. I call this experience of having intelligence, insight, intuition, and mystical abilities, the Shamanic Experience. And those of us who live it need to start banding together and protecting ourselves, each other, and the children of today. Beautiful Planet, just a rotten economic and political system.


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06 Nov 2018, 4:49 am

I would, as long as I'm not required to write research papers. :D I'm essentially taking such courses right now in college, one in communications and one for office relations. I'm writing about two papers per week. Life is so stressful right now and I just don't excel at these things. But I wanted to take them and have learned very valuable things. I like to challenge myself mentally and socially. I certainly don't think learning things I didn't know before makes me a dummy.


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06 Nov 2018, 5:02 am

I knew an ex-military officer who told me that he and dozens of his cohorts were sent to "charm school" and that he was quite pleasantly surprised at how well it worked. I guess I was too, although I hadn't known him before. Lots of people could use such a course, but Aspies probably need a lot of basics that others start with. We are also probably more diverse in our needs. I remember reading a book about development stages, and had missed most of them.



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06 Nov 2018, 1:16 pm

I couldn´t keep a vast set of rules in my head - and keep breathing.....but I would like to know how to read if I am welcome or not and for how long....


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08 Nov 2018, 12:44 am

If it's accredited and real, I may take it just for the heck of it. :lol: See how foreigners do it. Or at least foreign aspies might do it.
If not, if I'm bored enough, maybe.

I've watched a lot of (local) NTs on improv and translated things from there, and tons of written accounts of aspergian coping mechanisms across the net.
I just had a lot of data to work with, and I've yet to translate the most of it.

Doesn't hurt if I acquire more data from another, formal or informal. Who knows which terms and concepts I may stumble across from it?

But that's just me and my own case alone.





While a side of me questions; on which culture is this based on? But that's usually my main question if I were only to take account of my own case.

If I were to take account cases other than mine;
How about those that are easily thrown as 'hopeless cases' regardless the 'functioning level'?
How about those with insensitivities who may need to stim to remind where their body is? Significant comorbids aside from sensitivity and anxiety, like speech and motor issues? Some may required professional therapists instead of, say, model instructors or beauty workshops.
How about those whose tones don't exists? And how does one teach those with language issues 'articulation' beyond scripting? I'm sure the part where speech is practiced likely requires professional speech therapist instead of language tutor who partially works on accents.
How about those with learning disabilities? One had to work with several profiles too, different terms and mediums to work with.
And more countless things, like, would it exclude those with severe comorbidities and would likely only works with aspies of certain profiles?


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08 Nov 2018, 1:02 am

it is my considered opinion that each of your social skills points-

- Eye contact
- Voice tone modulation
- Facial expressions
- Mitigating anxiety
- How to initiate and keep a conversation going indefinitely
- Asking good questions and actually listening
- Small talk
- Disguising ticks and stimming so as not to draw unwanted attention
- Leveraging your autistic traits to become interesting and popular instead of weird and unattractive
- Speaking clearly
- Handling sensory issues
- Identifying toxic individuals, energy vampires, and psychopaths and avoiding them
- Clothing style (this actually matters socially)
- Physical fitness, posture, and basic nutrition (this actually matters socially)
- Initiating contact with the opposite gender
- Making and keeping friends
- Traveling abroad as an autistic person--


is a school course in itself, each interacts with the other in manifold and not-always predictable ways- and that to learn down cold their totality is not practically possible for anybody not on the gifted end of the IQ bell curve.



mrshappyhands
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08 Nov 2018, 2:43 am

There are a few of those I would love to learn how to properly execute. I have never been able to engage in meaningful eye contact without also fidgeting or glancing around vicariously. Small talk and general body language never came naturally to me. My middle son seems to have the same struggles, and he is also considered gifted. He looks like he is pain every time someone takes a picture of him. He said he just doesn't understand why he should smile if he has no reason to smile. And, honestly, I get that. However, I feel like I am not doing him any kindness with my own lack of social skills.